Round 7: 2017 Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya

Iamapony · Jun 12, 2017

Best I can tell is that MV still leads the 'ship, and Rossi would be right there, if he didn't crash trying to beat MV. Perhaps the T3 boys are that good on good equipment, and perhaps other teams are improving. With all the rule changes, there were suppose to be new people near the front. I think I see as many or more struggles for Repsol with Marcky-Marc, as I do for MovieStar. "Nothing is all ....s or ice cream."

J4rn0 · Jun 12, 2017

danski said:
Looking at Yamaha's struggles on their most successful circuits I think they paid too much attention to Vinale's testing speed and not enough to Rossi's lack of it.
If he has setup issues continuously, test after test, race after race then I would point towards the bike being developed down the wrong path.

The fact that they brought two new frames to today's tests is the proof of it. I think Vinales' talent and great initial results have kind of masked problems that Rossi had pointed out. Of course he couldn't insist with Maverick winning races, so he shut up and worked his ... out to get closer to Vinales... But after Jerez, and now after Catalunya, it's clear there is a problem with the 2017 frame (relative to the available tires of course).

Iamapony · Jun 12, 2017

J4rn0 said:
The fact that they brought two new frames to today's tests is the proof of it.

No it isn't. Teams bring frames to testing ...... wait for it ..... to test. Honda has brought frames to this test and they were rejected by the riders, including the Championship leader/winner, who won on the older frame.

JPSLotus · Jun 12, 2017

danski said:
Looking at Yamaha's struggles on their most successful circuits I think they paid too much attention to Vinale's testing speed and not enough to Rossi's lack of it.
If he has setup issues continuously, test after test, race after race then I would point towards the bike being developed down the wrong path.

Or perhaps Rossi isn't that good at setting up the bike, and there is plenty of evidence that suggests he has never been a great setup man. Copying your teammate's settings most of the time is a good indication that you're not good at setting up a bike.

Little Walter · Jun 12, 2017

Iamapony said:
No it isn't. Teams bring frames to testing ...... wait for it ..... to test. Honda has brought frames to this test and they were rejected by the riders, including the Championship leader/winner, who won on the older frame.

Annndd why pray tell would both teams be testing new frames? Could it be, wait for it.... because both Honda and Yamaha are struggling mightily to make the bikes work with the Michelin fronts? The degree to which both teams are struggling to cope with the Michelins, while not wholly unprecedented, is very much notable this late into the season.

danski · Jun 12, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Or perhaps Rossi isn't that good at setting up the bike, and there is plenty of evidence that suggests he has never been a great setup man. Copying your teammate's settings most of the time is a good indication that you're not good at setting up a bike.

Typical suspension/braking settings between one rider and another are normally miles apart and as much use as a chocolate fireguard to a teammate. I reckon the copying goes as far as electronics and gearing but no further.

danski · Jun 12, 2017

Little Walter said:
Annndd why pray tell would both teams be testing new frames? Could it be, wait for it.... because both Honda and Yamaha are struggling mightily to make the bikes work with the Michelin fronts? The degree to which both teams are struggling to cope with the Michelins, while not wholly unprecedented, is very much notable this late into the season.

Isn't Yamahas problem more about the rear tyre? At least at Catalunya and Jerez.

feros · Jun 12, 2017

i doubt that any manufacture problem has anything to do with the front or rear. the whole thing looks kinda rigged, next race yamahs will be dominant, at germany hondas, and the next one a shuffle between teams and its up to the riders to catch points. this is dorna's and michelin way of keeping things interesting. at least thats how it looks, cuz lots of things dont make sense here.!!

imunderandoverit · Jun 12, 2017

danski said:
Isn't Yamahas problem more about the rear tyre? At least at Catalunya and Jerez.

More like both..

Then again we dont know Rossis condition after his motocross accident..

JPSLotus · Jun 12, 2017

imunderandoverit said:
More like both..

Then again we dont know Rossis condition after his motocross accident..

Oh I would say Rossi's condition is better than advertised.

Christ, the way the media was carrying on, why you would think he broke his collarbone like Lorenzo at Assen.

Gaz · Jun 12, 2017

This is becoming regular - and yes, that is Jorge enjoying the moment as he did after the race when he celebrated with Dovi

MdubSTYLIE · Jun 12, 2017

Gaz said:
This is becoming regular - and yes, that is Jorge enjoying the moment as he did after the race when he celebrated with Dovi

Jorge was great to watch late in the race. He is handling the situation well imo.

Gaz · Jun 12, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
Jorge was great to watch late in the race. He is handling the situation well imo.

Absolutely which I feel comes from being far happier/settled with the environment.

I cannot recall him celebrate a team mate or other's victory in the way he did for Dovi which showed me a fair bit in his current mindset (sure, his result would have bouyed him but he went out of his way to congratulate Dovi).

Meanwhile, across the fence there are rumblings of discontent

MdubSTYLIE · Jun 12, 2017

Gaz said:
Absolutely which I feel comes from being far happier/settled with the environment.

I cannot recall him celebrate a team mate or other's victory in the way he did for Dovi which showed me a fair bit in his current mindset (sure, his result would have bouyed him but he went out of his way to congratulate Dovi).

Meanwhile, across the fence there are rumblings of discontent

Which surprised me. He has shown me a lot. He really seems to be enjoying the ducati experience. The ups and downs ect. Like you said, having such a horrible teammate for so long has made this a breath of fresh air. Props to him for sure.

birdman · Jun 12, 2017

danski said:
Typical suspension/braking settings between one rider and another are normally miles apart and as much use as a chocolate fireguard to a teammate. I reckon the copying goes as far as electronics and gearing but no further.

If your team mate has figured out the solution to a problem such as lack of rear grip or chatter or any number of things you would be a fool not to look at the data and where possible copy the settings. Suspension is 'set' to get the best out of the tires just as much as it is to the rider. Lorenzo admitted he at times copied Rossi, because Rossi was faster. Rossi fans are stuck in the myth he is the development god and would never copy his team-mate.

Keshav · Jun 12, 2017

Gaz said:
This is becoming regular - and yes, that is Jorge enjoying the moment as he did after the race when he celebrated with Dovi

Jorge really and truly looks like he's having a great time. This is first image I've ever seen of him where his happiness didn't looked forced.

imunderandoverit · Jun 12, 2017

Hopefully ducati can keep rolling like that. Great weekend. Lorenzo from started from the front row and dovi won the race. Lorenzo was probably sleeping a bit after he lost the lead lol.

imunderandoverit · Jun 12, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Oh I would say Rossi's condition is better than advertised.

Christ, the way the media was carrying on, why you would think he broke his collarbone like Lorenzo at Assen.

Ye, it aint that bad. But rossi himself said he would have liked a 2 week break between mugello and barcelona instead of one. Now he gets a 2 week break until Assen. Lets see how that goes.. I dont think he will finish in the top 3 and he will probably finish 5th in the championship.

J4rn0 · Jun 13, 2017

birdman said:
If your team mate has figured out the solution to a problem such as lack of rear grip or chatter or any number of things you would be a fool not to look at the data and where possible copy the settings. Suspension is 'set' to get the best out of the tires just as much as it is to the rider. Lorenzo admitted he at times copied Rossi, because Rossi was faster. Rossi fans are stuck in the myth he is the development god and would never copy his team-mate.

The real Yamaha setup wizard, based on results, appears to be Forcada. Copying a setup is not always profitable due to differences in riding style and preferred bike balance etc. But when two riders like Rossi and Vinales both fail to perform, in two races out of six, then there is surely something wrong.

Now Vinales swears by the 2017 bike and only blames Michelin; Rossi is quite on the opposite note, blames the bike more; in fact he had reservations on the 2017 bike since Valencia 2016. Who is right? Of course Vinales never rode previous Yamahas, and has been the fastest when the Yamaha 2017/Michelin combo works. But when it doesn't, he's actually clueless. Rossi remembers the 2016 and previous Ymahas very well.

Rossi says the 2017 bike is understeering, requires to spend more time at high corner angles, and that's why it destroys tires under certain circumstances (low grip). Makes sense to me.

Vinales is more of a point-and-shoot rider and that's probably why he's faster on a slightly understeering Yamaha, when the tires work.

Arrabbiata1 · Jun 13, 2017

J4rn0 said:
Rossi says the 2017 bike is understeering, requires to spend more time at high corner angles, and that's why it destroys tires under certain circumstances (low grip). Makes sense to me.

Reminiscent of the ill fated Suzuki GSV four stroke project.

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Round 7: 2017 Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya

Iamapony

J4rn0

Iamapony

JPSLotus

Little Walter

danski

danski

feros

imunderandoverit

JPSLotus

Gaz

MdubSTYLIE

Gaz

MdubSTYLIE

birdman

Keshav

imunderandoverit

imunderandoverit

J4rn0

Arrabbiata1

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