Rossi's Legacy Tainted

Mick and mike, ur rite. But thats only bcuz 95% of thos following the sport dont know .... about it. Rossi has been made to compete by his own doing on a bike that makes him look ordinary. This reality did not exist before for the world to see. Its happened now, but as usual, the rationalizations will always persist, especially now by overblowing the shoulder, the Honda clutch, & "...." Duc. I guess its just life. Some people just get away with it. For me Rossi will always be a legend created. A great rider, absolutely! My beef has been with a particular bread of his fans. So everthing u read from me should b seen in that light. I'll repeat that; everything u read from me should b seen in the light of my dislike of boppers (NOT to b confused with Rossi fans). I hav no beef with the man, Rossi. As u say, hes just a human with flaws as well as goodness. Hes always been cool when ive seen him (except that time i chased him down, but ...., even the coolest mothafucker Nicky has ran from me on ocasion). This sport is about darlings. Rossi has been the star darling and Dorna has sold his brand to those willing to swallow it whole. But scratch beneath the surface and what do u find? I find glaring examples that suggest to me if another rider near Rossi calibur were afforded such advantages, they'd be the legend. Frankly, i cant stomach that, mayb u can.



But ur rite, 95% will accept him as the GOAT, and as time goes by, that number will climb. But u know, i dont giv a ..... So far, little to nobody has successfully debated away the unfair advantages i can point out. There r two dynamics at play, the one Dorna sells u. Thats the one most accept, buy, and swallow. That actually makes them rich. Then there is the authentic competition. That one is heavly compromised. If u want to b dumb and call Rossi the GOAT? Its bcuz u buy the show NOT the authentic competition side if the coin.



In the end, its just racing. Its a hobby, of very little importance.

Bunyip said:

I think that I inadvertantly have confused people with the main gist of my post.



My intention was to highlight the fact that Rossi was performing at an equal or lower level than Lorenzo and Stoner on equal equipment, and that this was making it readily apparent that he was not quite the infallible motorcycling god that many ( and most of his yellow fans) were previously believing. This revelation was the substance of his legacy being tainted.





Unfortunately , I also introduced discussion on the relative "bad behaviours" of Stoner v Rossi. This was purely included as a response to Talpas continual denigration and obvious Stoner-hatred. I should have discussed this point in a separate area so as not to confuse the issue, but I used the post to get a lot of things off my chest. Talpa is quick to repeat time and time again Stoners outbursts etc, while turning a blind eye to Rossis more calculated approach to undermining his opposition, which I believe points to a less likeable personality.

Witness Rossi,s latest press conference where he did not fail to withold unnecessary barbs about his closest rivals. I don,t think JL or CS have used similar press conferences to have digs at Rossi. It would seem that Rossi is quite happy to tarnish his reputation in all areas now.





http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/167316/1/valentino_rossi_opens_up_over_key_motogp_rivals.html



“Stoner is the favourite for the championship, but I also say that to bring a jinx on him,” he jokes. “I give him 10 out of 10 for speed and talent, but a bit less for tactics and cunning. He is a mad man who often repeats the same mistake.



“Jorge is a great because everybody agrees about him in the sense that everybody thinks he is unpleasant. He is strong, he deserves 9.5. I won't say he is intelligent because that's a strong word. Let's say he is crafty.”

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The comment about Stoner is not too bad - probably wouldn't have said it that way. I don't think the comment about Lorenzo should have been said. I wonder what the question was that he was asked. Rate each of your rivals out of 10 and explain why??



Was the original interview in English or Italian?

Jumkie said:

But ur rite, 95% will accept him as the GOAT, and as time goes by, that number will climb. But u know, i dont giv a ..... So far, little to nobody has successfully debated away the unfair advantages i can point out. There r two dynamics at play, the one Dorna sells u. Thats the one most accept, by, and swallow. That actually makes them rich. Then there is the authentic competition. That one is heavly compromised. If u want to b dumb and call Rossi the GOAT? Its bcuz u buy the show NOT the authentic competition side if the coin.

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This is where you've missed the point. International motorsport is no longer authentic competition otherwise everyone would have the opportunity to get into it, not just those with money. Stoner was lucky to get into international motorsport and really it was only after 07 that perceptions changed and he no longer had to struggle to get a decent ride. If Stoner's parents hadn't bet the house on it, he would never have made it. How many people don't have that opportunity.



International motorsport is a show and it is expensive. Dorna promotes the show, if you want 100% authentic competition don't watch motorsport. So when judging the GOAT, judging also has to be done in the context of the show as well as wins, titles etc.

Bunyip said:

“Stoner is the favourite for the championship, but I also say that to bring a jinx on him,” he jokes. “I give him 10 out of 10 for speed and talent, but a bit less for tactics and cunning. He is a mad man who often repeats the same mistake.



“Jorge is a great because everybody agrees about him in the sense that everybody thinks he is unpleasant. He is strong, he deserves 9.5. I won't say he is intelligent because that's a strong word. Let's say he is crafty.”

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The mistranslation caveat which always applies aside, this is uncharacteristically unsubtle. I can only imagine he has really been copping it in the italian press if these statements are reflective of his current attitude.

Woody, thats an excellent post. Mayb thats my problem; its just i refuse to accept it. I should know better to bcuz at this very moment im dealing with this exact reality on a racer im working with.

Bunny, thanx for posting VR quotes. They're pretty funny. Hes got balls, but alot if that reminds me of the balls of a cop, what u gonna do, they got the badge, in VR's case its clout. He'll continue to get away with it until somebody races him the same. Yeah yeah, we'll hear him whine like he did about Elias being "dangerous", bla bla crybaby. But until then, the riders r his ....... if they so choose to be slapped around. Fact is, his rivals Stoner & Lorenzo are being vindicated in spades. As they say, talk is cheap. If JL gets a 9.5 in speed and is not smart to impress VR, well i wonder what he mite rate himself on the Duc that won several races and came 2nd two days before he rode it at Valencia.

Mick D wrote "Let me recap (and prepare for the flaming fallout). Even if Valentino Rossi fails miserably on the Ducati his legacy will not be tarnished, tainted nor diminished. History tends to be Incredibly lenient on iconic, multi-championship winning athletes. The faults we see today and tend to amplify will rate a minuscule or non-existent sidebar In the "legacy" of a dominant multi-championship winning racer."

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After reading this thread this is the same conclusion I came too!



I really dont care who wins to me its about the sport and seeing great racing from great riders, as long as its not pedders

Jumkie said:

In the end, its just racing. Its a hobby, of very little importance.

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I am not so sure that is true for people like us jumkie. What was the famous quote from the football coach/manager? "It's not a matter of life and death it's more important than that" .

michaelm said:

I am not so sure that is true for people like us jumkie. What was the famous quote from the football coach/manager? "It's not a matter of life and death it's more important than that"

.

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Ah HAHAHA! Well done. Yeah bro. Ur rite. Daaaaamn it! I need to go to AA.

Bunyip said:

We have to be careful of translations- yes, but Lorenzo has really got under Vales skin. Has he run over his pet dog ? Grandmother?



No. Probably all he did, is beat him on his own bike. The ........

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It appears that this was excerpted from a forthcoming italian TV interview by crashnet, so the translation caveat, context and how humorously the statements were made all apply. I am not sure the stoner line is really offensive, as a stoner fan obviously the question is whether he made tactical mistakes or was limited by the bike, but casey possibly did have to be a madman to ride the ducati the way he did, and valentino is basically saying in a different way what nicky said when he first encountered the thing.

Bunyip said:

I think that I inadvertantly have confused people with the main gist of my post.



My intention was to highlight the fact that Rossi was performing at an equal or lower level than Lorenzo and Stoner on equal equipment, and that this was making it readily

apparent that he was not quite the infallible motorcycling god

that many ( and most of his yellow fans) were previously

believing. This revelation was the substance of his legacy being

tainted.



Unfortunately , I also introduced discussion on the

relative "bad behaviours" of Stoner v Rossi. This was purely

included as a response to Talpas continual denigration and

obvious Stoner-hatred. I should have discussed this point in a

separate area so as not to confuse the issue, but I used the post

to get a lot of things off my chest. Talpa is quick to repeat time

and time again Stoners outbursts etc, while turning a blind eye

to Rossis more calculated approach to undermining his

opposition, which I believe points to a less likeable personality.

Witness Rossi,s latest press conference where he did not fail to

withold unnecessary barbs about his closest rivals. I don,t think

JL or CS have used similar press conferences to have digs at

Rossi. It would seem that Rossi is quite happy to tarnish his

reputation in all areas now.

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/167316/1/valentino_rossi_op

ens_up_over_key_motogp_rivals.html



“Stoner is the favourite for the championship, but I also say

that to bring a jinx on him,” he jokes. “I give him 10 out of 10 for

speed and talent, but a bit less for tactics and cunning. He is a

mad man who often repeats the same mistake.



“Jorge is a great because everybody agrees about him in the

sense that everybody thinks he is unpleasant. He is strong, he

deserves 9.5. I won't say he is intelligent because

that's a strong word. Let's say he is crafty.

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I thought you Stoner fans like riders for telling it like it is....



I'm touched that you feel the need to start Rossi hating threads on account of little old me, and if your intention is indeed to create space for all to have a go at me well why not start a thread titled 'Talpas Stoner Hating'?



your ........ is not being swallowed mate, your a hater and actually worse for only a select few of the master haters actually start threads like this to fuel their incessant need to hang .... on Rossi.

Of course I still love you Bunny, just like I love cat litter-it's essential but extremely unpleasant to deal with

Bunyip said:

I also find it quite interesting that Rossi was rating his opponenets out of 10, giving CS 10, JL 9.5, Simoncelli 8.5 and his new teammate , Hayden 8. No mention of Pedders?!



“Hayden is strong, he deserves an 8. He is my team-mate and therefore is my first rival. The wall? With Hayden there won't be one, whereas there was with Lorenzo because I was hoping to not teach him all of my tricks. That is something that generated so much controversy, but things passed from one side to the other anyway.



“Simoncelli deserves 8.5,” he says moving on to his friend. “He still needs to show more, but he has a very quick Honda and he will certainly be a thorn in my side.”



Although I think his assessments are pretty accurate, normal diplomacy towards one,s new teammate would preclude such a stark assessment. Something like "he,s as tough an adversary as any of them" could suffice. I don,t see Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa ,Spies etc giving assessments of their teammates that are as un subtle as this. Its called diplomacy Vale.

Whats your take on this Hayden fans? - Jumk, Pov etc

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As far as the Hayden quote, all you need to do is imagine if the role was reversed and Hayden was being asked to evaluate his teammate.The quotes about Stoner and Lorenzo are simply an attempt to get both in a mood to show up the old man, and hopefully make a mistake. Rossi knows the championship can get away from him early, he is simply trying to mind .... his main rivals into a competition that really doesnt exist at the moment.

Rossi: “Stoner is the favourite for the championship, but I also say that to bring a jinx on him,” he jokes.

...its a mind game and it is so easy to believe even if you are not Vale fan...even Stoner him self has to admit it is true...and that adds a little extra pressure.



He didnt rate Pedrosa....hm i think, he thinks better not to pressure him with my comments. He would like Pedrosa to fight with the Stoner very much.



And with Ben it is the same... it just my opinion.



Isnt Jorge been saying he is good friends with everyone?





Have a nice day

Great Champions' reputations do NOT get tainted because eventually they succumb to younger riders, Bun -- otherwise all great champions would have tainted reputations...



I think Valentino is truly great because after all he's won and all the money he's made he's still there at 32, ready to offer himself to the challenge of younger and hungry champions. He could have been off after 2005 and remained an "untainted" king (in your view) with as many titles as Doohan, but he didn't. He's still there serving as "target" -- as Kropotkin rightly says -- for an entire generation of younger riders, and now he is even ready to chase them. That fact alone deserves respect.



Rossi's only problem is that his captive fans consider him to be God, something that's not possible. His haters (or better, the haters of his captive fans) will then attack him every time he does not perform like a God. Difficult position! But for me, if he manages top 3 results towards the end of this season and then will be capable to fight for the title in 2012, it will be another of his stunning achievements.