Compared to what? I would presume that the GP11 at the start of the season will already be a whole lot better than what they had last year
Compared to what? I would presume that the GP11 at the start of the season will already be a whole lot better than what they had last year
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Not true. In the last two years they had a new engine (big bang) and a brand new "chassis" (CF). Nothing that radical has yet been changed in the bike -- far from it.
Big bang engine and CF chassis have been implemented on the sat bikes also in a short time. So why do you assume the sat bikes will be treated differently now... You can expect Ducati to be like Yamaha or Honda in this regard.
Last but not least, all the changes recently made for Rossi have been implemented in Nicky's bike too, and at Sepang all the factory Ducati will be identical.
Keep climbing mirrors, it's fun to watch you doing that
You two are just arguing over what does or doesnt qualify as a major change. Rossi's 04 Yamaha and the 05 after that were both delta box framed inline 4's, but i think we'd all agree they were a major development from the 03 model.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Yes, they binned the 5-valves engine and the screamer, in favor of the 4-valve big bang (which was already built by Yamaha). This was done on a precise indication from Valentino. Then Rossi and JB did their customary work on the chassis and worked to improved the "connection" between right wrist and rear wheel. This was in the winter 2003-2004.
Come 2011. I do not know why some people invent major changes done to the Ducati now, when of course they have not attempted anything radical since Rossi has not yet provided the real data, riding the bike at the limit. What they have done is little more than tuning the 2011 evolution bike (which is the same Stoner would have had since it has been prepared before Rossi's arrival) to Rossi's preferences.
One has to keep in mind that people like Rossi and JB provide a lot of new ideas as they have a lot of experience. But no way they'll make major changes prematurely...
Well there are two sides to that. They are obviously making more changes than they normally would to the character of the bike because Rossi can't/wont ride it in its existing style where Stoner could/would. On the other hand the changes they are making are more publicized this year than ever before and despite them changing almost everything about the bike they haven't changed any one thing drastically enough to stray from their design concept.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Yes, the media are confusing things a lot in the frenzy of headlines Rossi's arrival at Ducati has generated. The most significant change announced so far for example (the new big bang engine with a revised flatter torque curve) has nothing to do with Rossi, it is part of the 2011 spec bike that was tested at Valencia -- that bike, which has been further worked on after the test, is the natural 2011 evolution of the Desmo16 and is exactly the same bike Stoner would have tested, had he stayed on.
Regarding the changes made in order to make the bike easier for riders that are not Stoner, that is a story that has begun 3 years before Rossi's arrival. One can't say they are trying to make the Duck easier "for Rossi". Rather, Rossi (and JB) are supposed to help Ducati in reaching this objective towards which they've been struggling since 2008.
I disagree, they only making the situation clearer by letting us know what specifically is being done where we otherwise just get introduced to the 'new' Desmo and we don't know too much about what makes it new, especially as its performance is always about the same.
One definitely can say that, as Ducati said exactly that themselves. Ducati have obviously been trying to make their bike easier for their riders since they hired Nicky Hayden (but not before), but we all know they weren't doing enough until now. The difference being Rossi's arrival.
Yup - that's realistic. ImO Duc have a machine that certailnly goes, but doesn't (always) handle. Rossi has spent his Yam days on bikes, that didn't go all that great, but cetainly handled. Hayden has dine a lot to get the Duc handling better and now we'll see what Rossi/ Burgess can do. But I don't see any big investment in passing that on to the satellite bikes in the last year of 800's.
Because it has to be good enough for 'normal' riders to win on it, which the old one was not.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
'Normal' riders seldom win anything, whatever bike you give them.
Stoner is the talent, but mind it -- he may not be faster on the Honda than on the Ducati. He wasn't faster at Valencia (on the Ducati he lapped a couple of tenths faster if I'm not wrong). One may say he does not need to be any faster, just more consistent and in that Honda may help him. I surely hope so.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
I'm not expecting a non-factory rider to win anything regardless of what bike they have. What has changed in 2011 is that they don't have Stoner anymore.
Sorry if i have not been clear, i will explain. Stoner is a rider who can ride faster than anyone on a troubled bike, that much is clear from what's been going on at Ducati in the 800cc era. With that in mind Ducati had a rider at the front, capable of winning races pretty much all the time, something they realized would not be permanent and a luxury which they have now lost. Now if the bike is poor, the results will be too. They cannot afford poor results for their company image, especially not now their lead rider is Rossi, with that in mind their bike will have to improve a lot from what they've been running recently. They have said as much themselves.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I have addressed all that previously. Ducati's resources are by all reports narrowly focused - for now - on making
a variety of band-aid fixes in order to make the bike less idiosyncratic in order that there be less of a chance of
Rossi looking like crap on the 2011 Ducati. It's going to take numerous races for Rossi to sort out all the changes
and evaluate them. Surely no-one thinks that Ducati is going to throw all these expensive changes - willy-nilly
at all the customer bikes - without knowing that they can be effective when the bike is being ridden at actual race pace
- something the Ducati testers are not capable of assessing.
So until Rossi and Hayden do the donkey work - assuming it all pans out - I think it's safe to assume the customer
bikes will be largely unchanged from last year.
And for the sake of argument - lets say they manage to sort it all out in the course of 3 or 4 races - and the Ducati
becomes a Honda killer - it's going to take a fair amount of time for all those changes to be applied to each pair of customer
bikes. In the meantime - the song remains the same.
BRING ON SEPANG! if rossi's still 15th on the time sheets then hit the panic button...until then all this is speculation. who knows...maybe he'll click with the duc right away (save the valencia tests..bum shoulder...)...will be exciting that's for sure
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
I hear the company "No Excuses Jeans" was to be one of Rossi's new sponsors.... but then they changed their minds.
you can't really blame the guy considering the massive expecations and pressure he has to manage while being in the priviliged position that at least 70% of motogp fans buy anything you say.
