Joined Sep 2006
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Leading
Joined Feb 2008
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Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
In the words of Jeremy Burgess, "Alarm bells must have been ringing..." Once Rossi said he might sit out the last few races, the wheels got turning behind the scenes, and just like that, the Ducati test appeared. And good thing to, because Ducati needed the extra time to "improve so Rossi could be Rossi."
Kesh, I think Mental was responding to Ptk50's well established bopperism (which may or may not have been overtly apparent in his above post).
Tom, they would NOT have shipped Hayden out, as he is the only rider without the clout or assertiveness to demand equal treatment, Rossi would NOT have signed next to Stoner. Why? Because he would have left a challenging teammate in Lorenzo (but at least one he could battle) to one that would have made him look real bad. Granted, at the time he may have not known the true gravity of such an arrangement, but at very least, there is no way in my mind he would have left Yamaha. Why would he, if the very thing he pouted over (teammate treated as an equal) would have happened at Ducati and he would have "suffered" the same arrangement. No, I doubt shipping Hayden was ever in the plan, in fact, I think quite the opposite, I think Valentino demanded Hayden to stay as part of his negotiation to sign with Ducati. And you should know why. Lets just day Rossi need a good rider around him that he can manipulate.
Bunny, I think in the case of Rossi vs Stoner, they would have been happy to choose Rossi first. Not sure how you made the logic that Rossi was their second choice given that they let Stoner leave. Stoner wasn't happy and Ducati were not making him happy. Stoner's illness and how the ignorant and grandstanding public treated it, coupled with Marlboro's executive guy going negative publicly, coupled with their outrageous and naive courting of Lorenzo, added up to a disgruntled employee. How many times have you read that Stoner couldn’t develop a bike, yet I believe he was screaming behind closed doors that the bike was .....
And so far, it seems Stoner was correct in his assessment. As Ducati have repeatedly thrown themselves under the bus for Rossi. And are now moving heaven and earth to improve the bike (despite the usual peeps like J4rno with head in sand saying they are making minor adjustments). The changes being made Kropo described summed up in a word as “radical.” (I get why they are trying to say its minor, because they are desperate to downplay what otherwise is a scandalous and very public attempt to get Rossi up to speed, something they were unwilling to do for anybody else.) This was never the theme during Stoner’s (and his teammates) stint with Ducati.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Most certainly. I don't think Ducati really wanted Rossi, I think they were stuck in a bad place when Stoner left and had to have someone. I am aware Rossi can be a good thing for Ducati, however I also believe he can bury them should things not go well ........ as they appear to be so far. We've already had comparisons of Rossi and Melandri ..... thats not a good thing for Ducati.
I do believe Ducati would have loved to have Rossi, if Stoner was still there. But guess who would have disappeared if that had happened.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Re: Mental - you may well be right - however - it's just my nature to see red and go ballistic when some English yutz uses the word
"whilst".
Agree; Hayden wasn't in danger of going anywhere. He's too valuable a commodity in so many ways.
Also - someone pointed out that really Ducati didn't truly have a choice about Rossi if they wanted their own pet alien.
Given the friction with the Marboro Man over his illness and the Lorenzo pay scandal coupled with the mental/physical
demands of multiple seasons spent riding around the Ducati's flaws - I'd say that Stoner had already made up his mind
at least 10 months ago to get out of Dodge and get a pocket full of Honda bucks. I really think that was a forgone
conclusion a long time back.
Plus Stoner was tired of making polite excuses for the lack of progress with the front end
and having to take .... from the Powerslide Boppers for the "lack of development".
Re: Mental - you may well be right - however - it's just my nature to see red and go ballistic when some English yutz used the word
"whilst".
Sorry Keshav I will remove this word from my vocabulary.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
I wouldn't say it as I wasn't there, Alex Barros however did say it in a late 2007 Portugese interview.
Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, as JB said they "are there to win, not to be liked".
However I do like a bit of clarity & have a long memory.
I do have to wonder, now that it suits other people's arguments, where all the theories of Ducati sacking Suppo for the Rossi freindly Guareschi have gone?
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Now you are treading on "wacko" territory.
Suppo was very much bought by Honda, and I'd say at the time Stoner was being courted heavily. Guaresci was brought in because of Stoner. Some time ago Guareschi was lauded by Stoner as the test rider who understood what he wanted, low and behold he gets Suppo's job when Suppo takes his position in the Stoner attracting mob. Keeping Stoner happy got guareschi his new job
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Gone? What's there to wonder about, Guareschi has been a great servant so far and has all but kissed his .... Not to mention throwing themselves under the bus for Rossi. Maybe Suppo would have said, 'yo, Rossi mus improve for Ducati to be Ducati.'
Anyway, I was just wondering, since Duc is putting in work what seems to be every other weekend. How close do you think these will be in terms of what is underneath the fairings? (Perhaps a job for Babel's x-ray vision)
11407:AB Duc.png]11408:VR Duc.png]
How many updates will Ab get? Its a good thing they got a retro livery theme going, cuz I have a feeling they'll be running last year's .....
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Gone? What's there to wonder about, Guareschi has been a great servant so far and has all but kissed his .... Not to mention throwing themselves under the bus for Rossi. Maybe Suppo would have said, 'yo, Rossi mus improve for Ducati to be Ducati.'
Anyway, I was just wondering, since Duc is putting in work what seems to be every other weekend. How close do you think these will be in terms of what is underneath the fairings? (Perhaps a job for Babel's x-ray vision)
11407:AB Duc.png]11408:VR Duc.png]
How many updates will Ab get? Its a good thing they got a retro livery theme going, cuz I have a feeling they'll be running last year's .....
Here is a list of the similarities between the bikes:
1. They both run Bridgestones.
2. They are both called Ducati's
3. They both run Bridgestones.
How many updates will Ab get? Its a good thing they got a retro livery theme going, cuz I have a feeling they'll be running last year's .....
I've been wondering the same, you don't have to look for long to see that the bike pictured is a GP10, but i read some press release or article that was clear to say they'll be using a GP11. But even then it may not be all that up to date. It'd be in Ducati's best interest to give everyone the bike they build for Rossi, it'll be much easier for everyone to ride and none of their other riders are a realistic threat to Vale except Nicky if you're feeling optimistic or RDP if you are the religious type
Sure, but the same was true during most if not all of stoner's tenure, and I don't believe they gave all their riders the top-spec bike then, and strongly doubt they were even capable of doing this had they so wished.
Valentino has already made an oblique/subtle reference as is his wont, saying the ducati is a "real prototype", ie half-finished in comparison to a factory yamaha or honda. I wouldn't be holding my breath for a top spec bike if I was the second pramac rider in 2011; I doubt the extra money brought by valentino will trickle down that far.
Oh yes i know, Ducati have always started their riders all on the same bike and then only given the factory guys any updates, i suspect the same will remain true, just with much more updates coming throughout the season and leaving the satellite riders much further behind than they have been in the past
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Here is the difference Mich, Duc has surely increased their budget, personnel, and most improtantly, 10x their drive to the project, than during Stoner's tenure, who according to Stoner, the updates were few and far between. Now compared to what is happening now. Even before the season has started, the multiple solutions presented are far more than during Stoner's tenure me thinks. So you would think some of this will trickle down more due to the magnitude difference, eh? We will see.
Joined Feb 2008
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Anyone remember when Kallio hopped on Stoners bike and smoked the field? Neither do I, if you catch my drift.
Thing is, because Ducati start all their riders off on the same kit and used to have few updates during the season, the non-factory bikes probably always were very close to Stoner's.
Joined Feb 2008
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But that was one race at a time when a world title came within reach for the first time. And by my long, but admittedly sometimes fuzzy memory, it wasn't like Barros violated Ducati policy. He was confronted by someone at Ducati, but was it anyone significant? If anything, I'd say the fact that Barros could beat Stoner would suggest he at least had the equipment to do so (and considering how his team was run, that's a miracle in itself)
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
Yeah I should stay right out of your territory.
Now you are treading on "wacko" territory.
Well with some people suggesting that Ducati didn't even want Rossi it seems a bit odd that, that suggestion has disappeared. I'll be ...... if I'm wading back through over a year of posts though to see who it was.Gone? What's there to wonder about, Guareschi has been a great servant so far and has all but kissed his .... Not to mention throwing themselves under the bus for Rossi. Maybe Suppo would have said, 'yo, Rossi mus improve for Ducati to be Ducati.'
Well it didn't happen again did it?
I kept the Barros interview, if & when I fire up my old lap top I'll re-post it.
Barros very definitely publicly stated that he was told by a ducati honcho after his podium ahead of stoner in the early part of the 2007 season that a satellite ducati should not finish ahead of stoner again. This was a race in which he made a different tyre choice than the other ducati riders including stoner, and I think against bridgestone's advice.
iirc the honcho was a senior manager from the general ducati company, not ducati corse, who would have no need of such proscriptions given the availability of time-honoured methods like turning down the power on customer bike engines. This was also pramac in the d'antin days when, regardless of what they were given by ducati, the team had no money for salaries for personnel such as suspension technicians, as I think alex also said.
To my mind only honda have any track record for giving top spec equipment to satellite teams, certainly at times in the 500 era and possibly towards the end of the 990s, but not it would appear hitherto in the 800 era. It will be interesting to see what the the 4 riders slated for factory equipment this year are actually given.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Doubtful, at least in the short term. Why? Because the compound effectiveness of all the various (expensive)
band-aids being applied - is a BIG unknown until they're applied in actual race conditions by Rossi and Hayden.
And then, if the whole package miraculously gels - Ducati will have a ....-load of updating to do on each pair of
the numerous customer bikes. That's a lot of money and energy to be spending on a bike that will be history come
next year. My guess is everything will be focused on the factory team this year, and that the other Ducati riders will
have an especially dreary 2011.
