Rossi vs Stoner part II

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stop_killing_dead_things @ Feb 6 2008, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you mean those who voted no are wishful thinkers...

what makes you think Rossi could win races on the Duke, or Stoner on the Yam come to think of it!

its about time people stopped thinking of Valentino as an unbeatable racing god, some of the others are every bit as capable as him of dominating, take Stoner for example...


yes but the big difference is stoner probably wouldnt be capable of winning/domminating on an inferior machine, rossi moved manufacturers to prove his ability lets see stoner on a different machine before you make any kind of comparison.

its easy to be domminating when you have the best equipment and the machine suits you.............

and i believe rossi could win on the duke hopefully something that will be seen in the future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 6 2008, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>rossi moved manufacturers to prove his ability

So what happened last year?..........was his abilty to ride the "oh so inferior" yamaha questioned?

Maybe Stoner should win 5 consecutive WC's then move to TeamKR to prove his ability?

Maybe people should just give credit where credit is due, and take their Rossi Tinted Glasses™ off?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BEN @ Feb 6 2008, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So what happened last year?..........was his abilty to ride the "oh so inferior" yamaha questioned?

Maybe Stoner should win 5 consecutive WC's then move to TeamKR to prove his ability?

Maybe people should just give credit where credit is due, and take their Rossi Tinted Glasses™ off?


i have given stoner credit here about 10 times.

the times the yam broke down and times the tyres gave in were a big loss in valuable points if that hadnt of happend who knows.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 6 2008, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yes but the big difference is stoner probably wouldnt be capable of winning/domminating on an inferior machine, rossi moved manufacturers to prove his ability lets see stoner on a different machine before you make any kind of comparison.

its easy to be domminating when you have the best equipment and the machine suits you.............

and i believe rossi could win on the duke hopefully something that will be seen in the future.

right, so where are his 2006 and 2007 titles then? the yamaha is inferior to the duke and was to the honda, so why hasnt he won?

so based on that theory the title this year is between stoner and pedrosa then, because they have the best machinery and their bikes suit them most (apparently). where does Rossi's abilty come into that then?

i doubt it, Bautista is rumoured to be in line for a factory Duke in 2010, and they aint going to let their world champ go anytime soon... besides, Rossi's alleged 'talks' or whatever they were with Ducati were more than likely just to give Yamaha a kick up the butt.


im with you on this one Ben!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 6 2008, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the times the yam broke down and times the tyres gave in were a big loss in valuable points if that hadnt of happend who knows.

and if Dani hadnt been torpedoed by de puniet twice and his tyres had worked properly...

and hey, if hayden's honda had suited him and his tyres had worked...


see what im getting at?

2784:argue091204.jpg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stop_killing_dead_things @ Feb 6 2008, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>right, so where are his 2006 and 2007 titles then? the yamaha is inferior to the duke and was to the honda, so why hasnt he won?

so based on that theory the title this year is between stoner and pedrosa then, because they have the best machinery and their bikes suit them most (apparently). where does Rossi's abilty come into that then?

i doubt it, Bautista is rumoured to be in line for a factory Duke in 2010, and they aint going to let their world champ go anytime soon... besides, Rossi's alleged 'talks' or whatever they were with Ducati were more than likely just to give Yamaha a kick up the butt.


im with you on this one Ben!




and if Dani hadnt been torpedoed by de puniet twice and his tyres had worked properly...

and hey, if hayden's honda had suited him and his tyres had worked...


see what im getting at?


not really i just put my rossi glasses on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 6 2008, 05:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think its pretty sad how fans follow a world champion just because he is world champion, so what happens to you maggots this season if stoner doesnt win???
move on to the next???

on equal machinery stoner would never beat rossi, without the ducati stoner is a crash test dummy and what a dummy he is...........

if stoner wasnt on a duke last season ....would he.....be......world champion
nope.

could stoner have one the title on the yamaha ......no way in hell

if rossi had the advantage casey had last season he probably would have one every single race.

stoner is a good rider and very fast but you clowns are acting like he is a chosen one.

and rossi could adapt to the ducati what ever state its in and i think he would beat stoner on that to...

stupid thread obviously a world champion is going to be chosen over rossi or any rider because of so many ........ fans that play follow the leader......
Hi Jaz, I don't think I've had too many exchanges with you, but this post of yours made me pause and wonder if you were being sarcastic or plain dumb. I'm not a Stoner fan, but I can certainly see that the guy won fair and square. First of all, you say you think it's "sad" that people follow a "world champ" just because he is a "champ"? Wow, that statement is breathtaking. Uhm, I wonder why you are such a fan of Rossi? It wouldn't be because he has NOT won any championships, would it?

Please, I really don't even think a response would affect to persuade you in the least bit if you think that Rossi somehow never had an "advantage" in any of his many championships. I tell you what, if you are willing to denounce one of Rossi's titles, I will leave you alone about you denouncing the one title of Stoner. Are you willing to say Rossi won a championship because he had an "advantage" in at least 1 of the 5 titles?

There is no doubt Stoner beat Rossi straight up last year. Not only did he dominate in the championship, but also he beat Rossi straight up in the few races that they did battle and exchange positions.

If that Ducati was so good as you say, Capirossi would have been 2nd in the championship. Did you start watching MotoGP this year? Did you forget that Capirossi is an outstanding rider? Were you not paying attention to 06 when he was in the points lead until that terrible crash in Spain? He was poised to win a premier class title that year until fait stepped in, and now you are going to say the Ducati is so good that it practically rode itself to catapult Stoner to the title? How then do you explain the difference in championship standings between Stoner and Capirossi?

Wow, if ever there was an "........ fan"; we could certainly pin your post here as the poster child for it.




I didn't see your following post until I posted mine.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 6 2008, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>not really i just put my rossi glasses on.
Ok, well at least you admit that you had your special glasses on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stop_killing_dead_things @ Feb 6 2008, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you mean those who voted no are wishful thinkers...

what makes you think Rossi could win races on the Duke, or Stoner on the Yam come to think of it!

its about time people stopped thinking of Valentino as an unbeatable racing god, some of the others are every bit as capable as him of dominating, take Stoner for example...

I have a feeling Rossi could win on Stoners bike but Stoner couldn't win on Rossi's

Thats a fair honest assumption.

suck on it

I think Rossi and Stoner are the two best riders today, by a margin, and I only pray they have equipment that enable them to fight it out on the track, and they both avoid injuries. Who will win is anyones bet, but ofcourse I hope VR take it home.

The way stoner was dominating last year I have no doubt he has what it takes. His performance has been Rossi-like in the way he adopted to the Ducati and how he is allways a lot better than his team-mate. The way he has gained a huge margine or adjusted the speed when any one closes has also been convincing.

I think we should consider us lucky having those two at the top. Not often do we have two so dominant riders on the top with such a huge talent and will to win. Hopefully we can have another or two more up there. I doubt it will be Pedrosa, but have hopes for Lorenzo and my personal favorite rookie Dovi, allthough he will have a hard time with customer leased Honda.
Who's the better rider is something I really don't want to speculate in. They have such a different path to the top, different personalities and different abilities that it is impossible to say.

double post

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 6 2008, 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Jaz, I don't think I've had too many exchanges with you, but this post of yours made me pause and wonder if you were being sarcastic or plain dumb. I'm not a Stoner fan, but I can certainly see that the guy won fair and square. First of all, you say you think it's "sad" that people follow a "world champ" just because he is a "champ"? Wow, that statement is breathtaking. Uhm, I wonder why you are such a fan of Rossi? It wouldn't be because he has NOT won any championships, would it?

Please, I really don't even think a response would affect to persuade you in the least bit if you think that Rossi somehow never had an "advantage" in any of his many championships. I tell you what, if you are willing to denounce one of Rossi's titles, I will leave you alone about you denouncing the one title of Stoner. Are you willing to say Rossi won a championship because he had an "advantage" in at least 1 of the 5 titles?

There is no doubt Stoner beat Rossi straight up last year. Not only did he dominate in the championship, but also he beat Rossi straight up in the few races that they did battle and exchange positions.

If that Ducati was so good as you say, Capirossi would have been 2nd in the championship. Did you start watching MotoGP this year? Did you forget that Capirossi is an outstanding rider? Were you not paying attention to 06 when he was in the points lead until that terrible crash in Spain? He was poised to win a premier class title that year until fait stepped in, and now you are going to say the Ducati is so good that it practically rode itself to catapult Stoner to the title? How then do you explain the difference in championship standings between Stoner and Capirossi?

Wow, if ever there was an "........ fan"; we could certainly pin your post here as the poster child for it.




I didn't see your following post until I posted mine.

Ok, well at least you admit that you had your special glasses on.


yeah i do kinda joke around alot and get carried away , and i will admit to that rossi did have the best bike and manufacturer in the 500 series but the way he rode that machine was work of art and without rider aids those bikes were nasty and i think half of the grid would kill themselves if the raced the dam things today.

im not taking nothing away from casey yes he did win fair and square but u cant say rossi bike was up for the challenge.

and ive always liked cappi as a rider.

lol

.... this is stupid, is stoner was on a yamaha he would crash all the time
the only reason hes not crashing as much as he used to is coz of the ducati's
great electronics package......

basiclly stoner was a decent individual but the fame and fortune whent straight to his head and now hes a cocky little .... tard... .... the bloke never even won a 250cc championship

This is the exact same argument from last year, except replace stoner with hayden.

It's liek drag racing, you run a fast time nobody really takes it seriously until you back it up with another equally fast run.


If stoner wins the title this season he'll get credit as being fast and not just having a fast bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 6 2008, 06:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not only "can" Stoner beat Rossi, but he already has beat him. Stoner will beat Rossi for the championship standings but Rossi will win many races. Yet, my money is on Hayden to win the title.


I wouldn't exactly call 2007 a fair fight, would you? Rossi's Michelin's were woeful for most of the season, and the one time he had consistent tires he started 11th on the grid and went on to win the race, over taking Stoner in the process. I find this thread pretty funny. Stoner has won 1 championship, Rossi has won 7. No contest in my book.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 6 2008, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>basiclly stoner was a decent individual but the fame and fortune whent straight to his head and now hes a cocky little .... tard... .... the bloke never even won a 250cc championship

you forgot to add 125cc either,

but your so right

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 6 2008, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.... this is stupid, is stoner was on a yamaha he would crash all the time
the only reason hes not crashing as much as he used to is coz of the ducati's
great electronics package......

basiclly stoner was a decent individual but the fame and fortune whent straight to his head and now hes a cocky little .... tard... .... the bloke never even won a 250cc championship
And so how has winning affected Rossi's "head"? As I recall, correct me if I'm wrong, but I have yet to see a post race celebration to the magnitude of Rossi's "look-at-me" productions.

As far as him not crashing. Many things have changed for Stoner; he's on a different bike all together, with a unique power delivery of the engine, a different type of tire wear characteristic, and yes, a great electronic package. But can you crash with all of this, certainly yes. If you want to bring up the issue of "crashing" I think Rossi has detrimentally done this the last two years when it really counted (or did he not crash in a race in 07). For the sake of my better Rossi fan friends, I would NOT bring up the “C” word, but you have, so I just thought I’d remind you who has when it counted. The issue of "crashing" is a very sore subject, and one that reflects more negatively on Rossi in the last two years. How much longer are you going to bring up that Stoner crashed allot in 06 being that its now 08?

The comical thread........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rossi_fan @ Feb 6 2008, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is the exact same argument from last year, except replace stoner with hayden.

It's liek drag racing, you run a fast time nobody really takes it seriously until you back it up with another equally fast run.


If stoner wins the title this season he'll get credit as being fast and not just having a fast bike.
That's funny. We have an 18 round series, the guy wins ten races (hardly comparable to a one off "drag race", and you guys are still stuck on that you can't give the guy “credit” for winning a title over an entire season?

You are mistaken about giving him credit. Those of us who understand the design of having a lengthy multiple rounds series over half a years worth of racing comprehend the magnitude of winning a title. Both Stoner and Hayden get credit from people who can appreciate the design of a season--which awards the winner who was consistently at the sharp end of the competitive field. Whether it was as competitive as 06 that produced several multiple winners of races, or a dominant race winner with lack of consistent challengers, either way, the title is earned and credit is due.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomad @ Feb 6 2008, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't exactly call 2007 a fair fight, would you? Rossi's Michelin's were woeful for most of the season, and the one time he had consistent tires he started 11th on the grid and went on to win the race, over taking Stoner in the process. I find this thread pretty funny. Stoner has won 1 championship, Rossi has won 7. No contest in my book.
Which of the Honda era titles of Rossi would you count as a "fair fight" then? And its not like the titles that he got with Yamaha were on such doggy machines. Do you know your history about titles in MotoGP/500s? Guess what, in the modern era, Yamaha and Honda have traded titles year in year out, and they usually did when the pendulum swung their way and they developed a better machine. And now you are going to sit here and try and castigate Stoner for being on a good machine, when Rossi was on a great machine the 5 titles he won? Please. Read a book and educate yourself.

BTW: Can we stop with the 7 titles bit, unless we are going to start counting the titles these guys win at the national level too. Rossi 5 titles, that count. (impressive enough)


Disclaimer: Threads like this poll (all speculative) easily turn into a poll of "who do you like better"; then come the ridiculous fanboy/girl comments. If your gonna bash the other guy for something, prepare to get some cold reality about your guy too. Rossi is a multiple champion. Stoner is the current champion. Both, great riders. Period

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 6 2008, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Which of the Honda era titles of Rossi would you count as a "fair fight" then? And its not like the titles that he got with Yamaha were on such doggy machines. Do you know your history about titles in MotoGP/500s? Guess what, in the modern era, Yamaha and Honda have traded titles year in year out, and they usually did when the pendulum swung their way and they developed a better machine. And now you are going to sit here and try and castigate Stoner for being on a good machine, when Rossi was on a great machine the 5 titles he won? Please. Read a book and educate yourself.

BTW: Can we stop with the 7 titles bit, unless we are going to start counting the titles these guys win at the national level too. Rossi 5 titles, that count. (impressive enough)


Disclaimer: Threads like this poll (all speculative) easily turn into a poll of "who do you like better"; then come the ridiculous fanboy/girl comments. If your gonna bash the other guy for something, prepare to get some cold reality about your guy too. Rossi is a multiple champion. Stoner is the current champion. Both, great riders. Period

Excuse me, but how dare you tell me to go educate myself in relation to MotoGP. I have been watching the top class since the early nineties. Witnessing Doohan win all his titles, with a hand operated rear brake. Now that was class.

I do find it funny however, that you tell me to go educate myself, when you mention that Honda and Yamaha have traded titles year in year out in the modern era. Strange comment to make seeming the last time Yamaha won a world title before Rossi moved there was in 1992 with Wayne Rainey. The following year it was a Suzuki with Kevin Schwantz, and then it was Doohans run of five on the Honda. Then Suzuki and then Honda again all the way up to Rossi on the Yamaha in 2004. Yamaha were hardly trading year in year out with Honda now were they. Please check your own facts before slating other people, FOR THEIR OWN OPINION. After all, isn't that the point of these threads? to offer your own opinion?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomad @ Feb 6 2008, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Excuse me, but how dare you tell me to go educate myself in relation to MotoGP. I have been watching the top class since the early nineties. Witnessing Doohan win all his titles, with a hand operated rear brake. Now that was class.

I do find it funny however, that you tell me to go educate myself, when you mention that Honda and Yamaha have traded titles year in year out in the modern era. Strange comment to make seeming the last time Yamaha won a world title before Rossi moved there was in 1992 with Wayne Rainey. The following year it was a Suzuki with Kevin Schwantz, and then it was Doohans run of five on the Honda. Then Suzuki and then Honda again all the way up to Rossi on the Yamaha in 2004. Yamaha were hardly trading year in year out with Honda now were they. Please check your own facts before slating other people, FOR THEIR OWN OPINION. After all, isn't that the point of these threads? to offer your own opinion?

Welcome to the forum Nomad! (are you one of those backpatch nomads?) Thats what I like to see, a new guy taking it Jumkie, and very well put too.

I think we could enjoy having you here!

Pete