Yes I agree Arrab......but surely you must apply your logic to 'Big Banger' and 'Povol' for the initial incitement in bringing up the shoulder? Then equally apply it the Stoner's detractors.
Rossi - Today’s Racers Not Men But Children
- Thread starter rossiofsky
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Yes I agree Arrab......but surely you must apply your logic to 'Big Banger' and 'Povol' for the initial incitement in bringing up the shoulder? Then equally apply it the Stoner's detractors.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
Stoner should forget about it now, or at least until he starts winning races again, but I rather suspect that none of the legendary tough guy riders mentioned, or anyone else, would have shrugged off the jerez incident with a smile.
I actually deleted my post to that effect in the other thread, but as on other forums stoner now seems to be a ..... both for being annoyed about other riders taking his line in non-race situations, and for taking rossi's line in a non-race situation (if he did); no wonder the poor boy gets confused at times.
I don't know that much about chronic fatigue syndrome, and neither stoner nor anyone from his camp has said that he had it as far as I know, but I respect Keshav's personal perspective, and somebody did post something from an apparently authoritative medical source saying that there is a link between cfs and lactose intolerance. Whatever he had he looked very definitely physically unwell to me, and I can actually see where undetected lactose intolerance in itself whilst apparently prosaic could cause big problems with what is to some extent an endurance sport.
Mick doohan as we have discussed in the past whinged more than stoner and rossi put together, usually after he had won though (as an aside I am fairly sure that valentino wouldn't have pulled the laguna seca move or the jerez move on mick).
I would never dispute that a major contributor to rossi's remarkable record has been him maintaining physical and mental toughness /strength over a longer period than anyone in history, let alone any of the current riders, and hence he is in a reasonable position to have a perspective on such things, but it still doesn't mean he can do no wrong.
I actually deleted my post to that effect in the other thread, but as on other forums stoner now seems to be a ..... both for being annoyed about other riders taking his line in non-race situations, and for taking rossi's line in a non-race situation (if he did); no wonder the poor boy gets confused at times.
I don't know that much about chronic fatigue syndrome, and neither stoner nor anyone from his camp has said that he had it as far as I know, but I respect Keshav's personal perspective, and somebody did post something from an apparently authoritative medical source saying that there is a link between cfs and lactose intolerance. Whatever he had he looked very definitely physically unwell to me, and I can actually see where undetected lactose intolerance in itself whilst apparently prosaic could cause big problems with what is to some extent an endurance sport.
Mick doohan as we have discussed in the past whinged more than stoner and rossi put together, usually after he had won though (as an aside I am fairly sure that valentino wouldn't have pulled the laguna seca move or the jerez move on mick).
I would never dispute that a major contributor to rossi's remarkable record has been him maintaining physical and mental toughness /strength over a longer period than anyone in history, let alone any of the current riders, and hence he is in a reasonable position to have a perspective on such things, but it still doesn't mean he can do no wrong.
I seem to recall rather a lot of posts concerning a certain "fake" scaphoid injury rather before anything about rossi's shoulder, and this is the point; once it is rossi who has the injury it is different, and he isn't a whinger for talking about an injury. I believe both the scaphoid and the shoulder injuries were entirely genuine btw and both riders were are/were entitled to talk about them particularly if directly asked.
I think rossi is talking about passing manouevres, fairing bashing etc rather than injuries anyway and he has a point, but not to the extent he is saying; riders including him have always gotten upset by out of control moves, and also about people seeking tows cf mick doohan/alex criville. Not saying he was looking for a tow at estoril btw.
Joined Jul 2008
2K Posts | 14+
Tweed Valley Australia
I will make a point that has not yet been made and the illogical position Rossi has taken of comparing differing eras.
Yes, in the old days men were men and all of that, they used to smoke cigarettes, race hard, drink hard and deal with things a lot differently. But that was then.
This is now, we have far more media coverage, a lot more channels on the TV (to compete with) and the internet. Nobody has a private life, so in "the good old days" the likes of Freddy Spencer's career ending love issues or whatever took place in the background were never reported on, commented on or even provoked that much interest.
Now every little facet of racing life is available to the public and we all have the opportunity (like now on this forum) to comment and argue and offer our own (often asinine) analysis.
I do not think that the overall situation has changed a hell of a lot, riders and racers in the good old days were able to have dummy spits, feuds, bad days and slumps in form.
The difference is purely perceptual, and we are able to immerse ourselves to such a level that the game seems completely different. We are able to individually support our riders by posting in any forum we are able, and the internet has allowed journalists who once were never able to be heard because they didn't work for an established magazine or newspaper to offer their opinions carte blanche, despite being of little real value.
We have racing inside and out. We have the personalities and a throng of media attempting to play every little thing up to make a story, their story, and the environment has changed. In many ways for the better, but all change is a double edged sword and it has changed for the worse as well, and as with all change, we can't filter out the bits we want and leave the detritus behind, it is all or nothing.
Rossi's own analysis is just dreamtime talk, a ........ attempt to portray himself as "old school" when in actual fact a good evaluation will show he is just as prone to idiotic histrionics as any of his current competitors.
In the good old days the editors would have read this interview and tossed in in the bin.
With limited page space this would never have made it to final print.
Yes, in the old days men were men and all of that, they used to smoke cigarettes, race hard, drink hard and deal with things a lot differently. But that was then.
This is now, we have far more media coverage, a lot more channels on the TV (to compete with) and the internet. Nobody has a private life, so in "the good old days" the likes of Freddy Spencer's career ending love issues or whatever took place in the background were never reported on, commented on or even provoked that much interest.
Now every little facet of racing life is available to the public and we all have the opportunity (like now on this forum) to comment and argue and offer our own (often asinine) analysis.
I do not think that the overall situation has changed a hell of a lot, riders and racers in the good old days were able to have dummy spits, feuds, bad days and slumps in form.
The difference is purely perceptual, and we are able to immerse ourselves to such a level that the game seems completely different. We are able to individually support our riders by posting in any forum we are able, and the internet has allowed journalists who once were never able to be heard because they didn't work for an established magazine or newspaper to offer their opinions carte blanche, despite being of little real value.
We have racing inside and out. We have the personalities and a throng of media attempting to play every little thing up to make a story, their story, and the environment has changed. In many ways for the better, but all change is a double edged sword and it has changed for the worse as well, and as with all change, we can't filter out the bits we want and leave the detritus behind, it is all or nothing.
Rossi's own analysis is just dreamtime talk, a ........ attempt to portray himself as "old school" when in actual fact a good evaluation will show he is just as prone to idiotic histrionics as any of his current competitors.
In the good old days the editors would have read this interview and tossed in in the bin.
With limited page space this would never have made it to final print.
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
A good analysis Andy....but the above quote sums up the situation very succinctly....yet his fans continue to swallow every morsel without question.
This is just another desperate attempt to deflect from the REAL issue at the moment - his results on the Duc.
They obviously both are, as one view of stoner's comment on the incident is that he has neatly turned around from his point of view anyway the practice thing at estoril and rossi's explanation for the more serious incident in the race at jerez.
The problem is stoner is not in a position of strength just now having been beaten at estoril by pedrosa and lorenzo and is never going to win a prolonged battle with valentino on this sort of ground, valentino has a much defter touch with such things and it will only increase his focus and very likely decrease stoner's own, so he should let it go.
Joined Jul 2008
2K Posts | 14+
Tweed Valley Australia
The idea once expressed belongs to the world (Jefferson).
And that is the problem
I find myself reading the powerslide forums and not replying so much anymore
1. Because I am busy at work, and
2. Because all of this sideshow ........ has taken the front seat, it's like one of reality TV shows where they all cook or sing against each other but they show bugger all singing and cooking, just the emotional struggles and life story stuff to do with the competitors. I honestly want to puke.
For the record, I love the war of words between Rossi and Stoner, Simoncelli and Lorenzo - there is a bit of vinegar in the racing. This may be paradoxical to my "too much right now" stance, but it's too much because everyone is trying to second guess the off track dramas and not focusing on the on track stuff.
I don't think this is a calculated ploy by Rossi, he is just as caught up in this as everyone else, he has great competitors around him and isn't where he would like to be on the points table, he is just another rider at present. He should be talking about his bike and his team and his ambition to win races and show Stoner and Lorenzo et al what is going to do to them on the race track.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
He has nothing to gain from a verbal battle with Rossi, that energy would be far better expended on someone who is in the title hunt. However I think he has let it go, remembering that it was neither rider that pushed the "Estoril test incident" any further than the small mistake it was.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
One day we get a story where he says "This kind of thing is fun", the next the headline is "Rossi says modern riders are .......", if that's not a calculated, purposefully over the top remark I don't know what is. & I think, historically, that is his idea of fun.
Joined Jul 2008
2K Posts | 14+
Tweed Valley Australia
I believe that engaging in a particular form of behavior then separating yourself from it, in essence purporting yourself to be above it is hypocritical. There may be calculations, and for all I know he may believe it is comical, but really it's just the pot calling the kettle black.
You cannot just do it and adopt the position that it is okay to do it because you're you. And conversely that when everyone else does it's not okay because they're them.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Rossi gets the only real competition he has had for years and he calls them wimps when they are whooping his arse and making him look like an old fairy
Rossi is becoming so entrapped in .... talk and trying to put his "ills" on the other guys.
Wah wah the Ducati doesn't work
Wah wah I knocked Stoner off with my .... riding
Wah wah Stoner tried to knock me off
He is becoming a bitter old panzy
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
We lose an average of 1 driver a year in Superkarts, yet we have to pay for fortune to race out of our own pocket. As much as I respect these guys, they are getting paid for their skill AND to take the risks....if they don't like it then step aside for one of the other ten gillion riders who'd give their right arm to be in that position.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
I think it was gamesmanship at Estoril. As Kropotkin wrote yesterday, he gets the feeling that the riders may have become slightly disillusioned with all the name calling. Rossi said something hypocritical and has now distanced himself from it. That's not gamesmanship, that's moaning and realizing it and stepping back. If Stoner was still interested in playing games, he would have jumped all over it. They're bored with it. A lot of dragged out sensationalism at this moment. Hopefully this weekend will produce something worthwhile on track to discuss.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
So you're not aware of comical irony, of mocking by example? You should read some of Jumkie's posts.
I agree with your earlier post, they both seem to have tired of the game, and stoner seems to be concentrating more on riding this week-end on early indications.
As we discussed valentino is the inevitable winner in any prolonged verbal battle as he is much more adroit and possessed of genuine wit, and stoner would strengthen his position in confrontations with rossi with another championship win or two, or at least a few more race wins this year. I don't mind him standing up to valentino though.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
Interesting little factlet. The posted article is by Colin Young, a veteran journalist who also works for AMCN. Young wasn't actually at that debrief, but he works with Matt Birt of MCN. It was Birt who asked that question and got that response out of Rossi.
I have to say that at the moment, all of the press are trying to squeeze quotes out of riders, not just the Italian (and Spanish) media, the English media are just as bad. All of these spats are clearly selling papers, which is why they are all over the media.
Joined Jul 2008
2K Posts | 14+
Tweed Valley Australia
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