Rossi speaks out over Lorenzo contract

OK OK I'm gonna lay it for you to play it out.

Rossi is prepairing to negotiate his final MGP contract. Correct? And he's laying the groundwork now. Very smart.

Imagine the chequebook war between Yamaha & Ducati for Rossi's final contract. Considering the figures thrown at JL, imagine what Ducati will pay for Rossi.

I believe Rossi would love to win a WC on a Ducati to make it another WC on another brand further confirming his GOAT status. Especially if Casey is his team mate.

He'll take the Fiat sponsorship to Ducati to make it Italian rider/bike/sponsor, an Italian trifecta which will be worth mega dollars.

Fiat, being the owner of Ferrari could then offer him a seat in their F1 team should he so desire when he's finished racing bikes. Remember both Ducati & Ferrari(Fiat) are sponsored by Marlboro.

After Rossi retires Jeremy Burgess will then take Casey Stoner on & further continue the Burgess dynasty of World Championships.

Are these the ramblings of a madman or do I have some valid points??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeePee @ Sep 10 2009, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are these the ramblings of a madman or do I have some valid points??
Valid. In the sense that he's a savvy negotiator, but yes way too smart to go to Ducati. Just like Lorenzo, it was all BS to get Yamaha to up their ante, I don't think he ever really thought of going to the Italian machine. Can you imagine if they had and they end up looking like Melandri and Hayden? Neither of the factory Yamaha guys would risk that imho.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 9 2009, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As somebody question on this thread, "where have you been all season" to imply that Rossi and Lorenzo are on the same gear. Hahaha, yeah right, whatever sunshine.


You are soooo right man, was it in Doni when both fell but Lorenzo could not contiue as his brake lever was of the lower quality

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evolution @ Sep 10 2009, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are soooo right man, was it in Doni when both fell but Lorenzo could not contiue as his brake lever was of the lower quality

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evolution @ Sep 10 2009, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are soooo right man, was it in Doni when both fell but Lorenzo could not contiue as his brake lever was of the lower quality

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeePee @ Sep 10 2009, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OK OK I'm gonna lay it for you to play it out.

Rossi is prepairing to negotiate his final MGP contract. Correct? And he's laying the groundwork now. Very smart.

Imagine the chequebook war between Yamaha & Ducati for Rossi's final contract. Considering the figures thrown at JL, imagine what Ducati will pay for Rossi.

Are you American?
No pun intended but also when Jorge was out shopping it just seemed to me that there were lots of Americans that assumed that he would go for the money. I found that very unlikely despite not knowing a lot about him. For Rossi on the other hand there are no reason to think that he will go for the money. So far with all contracts it seems that the money were secondary while factory commitment, personal freedom and lots of other things were more important.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 10 2009, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you American?
No pun intended but also when Jorge was out shopping it just seemed to me that there were lots of Americans that assumed that he would go for the money. I found that very unlikely despite not knowing a lot about him. For Rossi on the other hand there are no reason to think that he will go for the money. So far with all contracts it seems that the money were secondary while factory commitment, personal freedom and lots of other things were more important.

Are you Scandinavian? Because all the ones I’ve met were usually pretty smart. (no pun)

OK MIGS Angel, yeah, only the "Americans" thought he would go to Yamaha. Wow, amazing, this is why I called you out on the "get on the record" thread, which you DID NOT do. So Like I said, now you're gonna tell us you knew it all along. Look at the pole result genius, the pole results had been heavily favoring a move to Ducati, only after the news came out did Lorenzo-Yamaha get some more mysterious votes (yet still 30 people thought he would go to Ducati). That is why I called you a "chickenshit" becasue you would NOT go on the record. You even said yourself it was a secret poll so how the hell do you know how the "American" bias would vote? You simply said "Hint: the most likely", and now you're gonna tell us that you "found this that & more likely". Hahaha, I called it what you would do before it even happened. You must have thought I would forget. LINK

Closet anti-American, you don't fool me. You have no shame!

(Babel, I woke up this morning thinking it was time to turn over a new leaf, I was going to have a kinder more gentler persona & approach on the forum, but you knocked that desire right out of my keyboard.)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Sep 10 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Also I tried to point out that Rossi had Championships in which no other Rider wan with the same Machinery, making it even more probable that it would have been 'inferior' Machinery.

Whilst the point is totally valid, without considering the finishing positions (either per race or championship) of the 'other' factory bikes involved one cannot state with certainty that the bike involved was inferior (not arguing either - just saying).

I say this as it is quite likely that where a bike is dominant (or near dominant) that one rider may win whilst the second rider finishes highly placed each race. To me, this determining factor could be rider skill or circumstance certainly and given teh team-mates that VR has had it is hardly likely that tey woudl be providing teh challenges of JL in 2008/09.

I am to lazy to go back over the years where VR won the only races for that manufacturer, but then I also do not subscribe that they were necessarily the dominant brand either, but I do not subscribe that they were necessarily as off the mark as some believe.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Sep 10 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes we agree in 2008. Nevertheless, Rossi did it, as I pointed out in 2004 and 2005 as I see it, with 'inferior' Machinery.


Of course, but as was said: "Same Bike, Same Season (Rossi's)" on that little discussion, I only pointed out the Riders with wins under those conditions. So I was not putting Stoner's wins a side.


No problems as my point was aimed elsewhere as some people remain claiming that the Ducati of 2008 was superior to the Yamaha yet your statistic supports that it was not.

Sorry, that comment was not aimed at you.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Sep 10 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't see the resigning itself as a 'Piss Off' reason, the reason I think is about rights over Bike development! I would be 'Piss Off' if I were Rossi/Burgess.

I probably didn't put it that well but by the re-signing I meant all associated aspects of it, as to VR who is sed to be feted as the all conquering legend he is and having his every wish fulfilled by teh factory, teh contact offer woudl be a large slap in the face.

To me, he should be rightfully pissed off, just as JL and all others should be if they do not get their way come contract time.






Gaz

hmmm im starting to wonder how much the media has twisted this.

i think what they quote as rossi saying is totally diferent to what he actually said, he may not be to happy about sharing development but to the extent of what the media says i think its .........

while we are all ripping eachothers guts out, the only proof we have is a few words from the media.

im getting bored of this now, if its there from the horses mouth in video form then i will change my mind on this matter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Sep 11 2009, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hmmm im starting to wonder how much the media has twisted this.

i think what they quote as rossi saying is totally diferent to what he actually said, he may not be to happy about sharing development but to the extent of what the media says i think its .........

while we are all ripping eachothers guts out, the only proof we have is a few words from the media.

im getting bored of this now, if its there from the horses mouth in video form then i will change my mind on this matter.


Jaz, totally agree in that everything and all judgements are based upon what the media are reporting - but then, is that not always the case and have we not seen many riders and/or team members castigated based upon media statements or reports?

It is the way things get done - all is taken as gospel etc when often the actual comment and/or delivery of it was totally different to the two dimensional results we see.





Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Sep 10 2009, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hmmm im starting to wonder how much the media has twisted this.

i think what they quote as rossi saying is totally diferent to what he actually said, he may not be to happy about sharing development but to the extent of what the media says i think its .........

while we are all ripping eachothers guts out, the only proof we have is a few words from the media.

im getting bored of this now, if its there from the horses mouth in video form then i will change my mind on this matter.

Yes jaz, but what are we going to do for 3 more weeks?
Stupid Lake Balaton not happening on September 20th…

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Sep 11 2009, 01:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am to lazy to go back over the years where VR won the only races for that manufacturer, [/b]

No problems as my point was aimed elsewhere as some people remain claiming that the Ducati of 2008 was superior to the Yamaha yet your statistic supports that it was not.

Sorry, that comment was not aimed at you.
Gaz
Gaz there is no point debating on this any more, you know my take on 08 season and i know your take on 08 season. The only problem i have when some people very quick to say that Rossi had the best bike in 08 and 09 season but at the same time they don't want to admit that Stoner had the best bike in 07 season but anyway i think its time to move on, we not gonna change our opinions on this Gaz.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Sep 11 2009, 02:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Gaz there is no point debating on this any more, you know my take on 08 season and i know your take on 08 season. The only problem i have when some people very quickly to say that Rossi had the best bike in 08 and 09 season but at the same time they don't want to admit that Stoner had the best bike in 07 season but anyway i think its time to move on, we not gonna change our opinions on this Gaz.


Very true, but we have pages left of the internet and three weeks to fill up - come on



Now, just for you because I am in a generous mood after being called a '......'.

I don't disagree that CS' bike was superior through much of 2007 when you actually watch the season and races, but I do contend that he (Stoner) was the bigger factor that year as all things Ducati with the change to 800cc and his change to Bridgestones suited him. I feel that were the majority of the results the bike than Capirossi would have to have been closer (just as Melandri last year) to the reults produced by CS (just as Abe to VR in 2004 etc).

In 2008 I think and have said elsewhere that the extra year developing the Yamaha helped VR be competitive and that he got the final piece of the puzzle he felt he needed which was the Bridgestones and by about round 4 - the Rossi Yamaha was the equal of the Stoner Ducati, but by the end of 2008 the Yamaha was in front.

I am a firm believer that the rider skill will make a difference and that a rider of the calibre of Rossi/Stoner/Pedrosa/Lorenzo are capable of getting competitive results (including podiums) on any bike in the paddock with the exception of the Hayate.




Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Sep 11 2009, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very true, but we have pages left of the internet and three weeks to fill up - come on

Now, just for you because I am in a generous mood after being called a '......'.

I don't disagree that CS' bike was superior through much of 2007 when you actually watch the season and races, but I do contend that he (Stoner) was the bigger factor that year as all things Ducati with the change to 800cc and his change to Bridgestones suited him. I feel that were the majority of the results the bike than Capirossi would have to have been closer (just as Melandri last year) to the reults produced by CS (just as Abe to VR in 2004 etc).

In 2008 I think and have said elsewhere that the extra year developing the Yamaha helped VR be competitive and that he got the final piece of the puzzle he felt he needed which was the Bridgestones and by about round 4 - the Rossi Yamaha was the equal of the Stoner Ducati, but by the end of 2008 the Yamaha was in front.

I am a firm believer that the rider skill will make a difference and that a rider of the calibre of Rossi/Stoner/Pedrosa/Lorenzo are capable of getting competitive results (including podiums) on any bike in the paddock with the exception of the Hayate.


Gaz
Ok Gaz then lets carry on the debate. You mentioned in your post that CS was on superior bike in 07 season but you think still Stoner was the bigger factor that year so are you trying to say that in 08 season Rossi only won because of superior bike and he wasn't a major factor in his wins.

By the way looking at Lorenzo's crashes in 08 it doesn't look that yamaha was very easy to ride.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Sep 11 2009, 04:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok Gaz then lets carry on the debate. You mentioned in your post that CS was on superior bike in 07 season but you think still Stoner was the bigger factor that year so are you trying to say that in 08 season Rossi only won because of superior bike and he wasn't a major factor in his wins.

Woohooo, lets play.

I don't actually say that the Ducati was superior throughout 2007 but accept that Stoner's Ducati was the better bike during much of that season (note that I mention Stoner's Ducati and not Ducati).

Yes I readily contend that Stoner was the discerning factor between that Ducati being seen as superior as opposed to it being seen as an also ran, or more correctly for 2007 a 'nearly there' bike. So, yes feel that Stoner made the Ducati (his Ducati) look better than it otherwise woudl have (and did) in the hands of others.

Where do I say Rossi only won in 2008 because of a superior bike by the way?

The facts remain that in 2008 it was the second year of the 800cc formula and as such all factories would have followed a set development path and in much likelihood have improved their products to varying degrees. Add it a rider like Rossi and any small improvement becomes a very marked improvement in his hands, but as I originally posted I do not think he was 'at home' with the Yamaha until around the fourth round of the championship.

So no, I do not say that Rossi 'only' won because he had a superior bike as I have made no secret that I feel the rider is the defining factor between success and failure.

But, if you refer to V's post which I quoted at one point (was it this thread) to rebut your claims, then using V's definitions of a 'superior' bike it is clear that yes in 2008 Rossi did have a superior bike.

This of course is borne out by the Manufacturer moreso than teams title (both won by Yamaha) as the Manufacturer title involves the highest pointscore for that manufacturer from everey race. Thus, to win a manufacturers title would seem to indicate a consistently high performing motorcycle able to score highly in many hands. Which makes Honda's failues even worse IMO.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Sep 11 2009, 04:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>By the way looking at Lorenzo's crashes in 08 it doesn't look that yamaha was very easy to ride.

One could therefore also argue that based on Stoner's crashes throughout 2008 that the Ducati is or was not easy to ride as well couldn't one?

But in fairness, first year crashes (as were Lorenzo's) should be looked at in isolation as part of the learning curve and when the rider involved is on different tyres to his team-mate, I say more so that it was an explainable anomoly.





Gaz

Yamaha’s net loss for half year this year is 575M Euro alrady. They estimate to record massive loss for 1.4B Euro this year. Even Honda is doing better than them. I simply do not think they have enough cash to pay for Rossi’s salary especially if they know he will retire in one or two years. Their biggest bike market is asia where they do not follow much about the racing. Do you think Rossi agrees for pay cut? Only Tabacco money can afford his salary in global economic crisis. Like they tried to lure Lorenzo, they would do the same to Rossi. If what Spanish media reported is correct, Ducati was even thinking of inviting in his mechanics. Rossi-Ducati things are not unrealistic at all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (moto3 @ Sep 11 2009, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamaha’s net loss for half year this year is 575M Euro alrady. They estimate to record massive loss for 1.4B Euro this year. Even Honda is doing better than them. I simply do not think they have enough cash to pay for Rossi’s salary especially if they know he will retire in one or two years. Their biggest bike market is asia where they do not follow much about the racing. Do you think Rossi agrees for pay cut? Only Tabacco money can afford his salary in global economic crisis. Like they tried to lure Lorenzo, they would do the same to Rossi. If what Spanish media reported is correct, Ducati was even thinking of inviting in his mechanics. Rossi-Ducati things are not unrealistic at all.

This could explain why Yamaha are stepping on Rossi's toes. Cost cutting.

Their reasoning could be, Our bike is already the best, it is likely to remain so for a couple years. Lorenzo is fast enough to win the title on this bike--so why pay Rossi through our nose beyond 2010?

Rather put Lorenzo in the development loop now, so even if he messes something up in 2010 there is still Rossi to set it right. Meanwhile the lad gains experience... And after 2010 we'll be the strongest even without Rossi.

Especially since nobody knows Fiat's sponsoring capability after 2010. Are we going to have Telefonica-Yamaha in 2011?

Why not. I love business logic

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Sep 11 2009, 07:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why not. I love business logic

Remember this is DUHrna!
(I just had to say that about the ‘Business Logic’ which in this case does not exit).

I think that as soon as Rossi steps out of Yamaha, their sales would plunge like melted ice-cream… Anyway, carry on with the Big H error all over again!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Sep 11 2009, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>One could therefore also argue that based on Stoner's crashes throughout 2008 that the Ducati is or was not easy to ride as well couldn't one?
Well Garry this one goes in the OBVIOUSLY file... I don't think you'll get anyone contradicting the statement that that Duc is not easy to ride. Casey has more than proven that he is the only rider who has mounted that steed and wrangled it into submission. The rest (an illustrious rest, I'll admit) have, so far, been unable to tame the beast...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (moto3 @ Sep 11 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamaha’s net loss for half year this year is 575M Euro alrady. They estimate to record massive loss for 1.4B Euro this year. Even Honda is doing better than them. I simply do not think they have enough cash to pay for Rossi’s salary especially if they know he will retire in one or two years. Their biggest bike market is asia where they do not follow much about the racing. Do you think Rossi agrees for pay cut? Only Tabacco money can afford his salary in global economic crisis. Like they tried to lure Lorenzo, they would do the same to Rossi. If what Spanish media reported is correct, Ducati was even thinking of inviting in his mechanics. Rossi-Ducati things are not unrealistic at all.
Blah, blah, freakin' blah... Do you have no understanding of retailing M3? Retailers regularly offer "loss leaders" with which they lose money on the bottom line BUT which they use to draw buyers to the brand. A, possibly counterintuitive yet cardinal rule of retailing is to advertise MORE during economic decline to maintain or INCREASE brand awareness and identity thereby insuring stable or increased market share as the economic cycle evolves.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Sep 11 2009, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This could explain why Yamaha are stepping on Rossi's toes. Cost cutting.

Their reasoning could be, Our bike is already the best, it is likely to remain so for a couple years.
J4 - I usually agree with your take on things but this statement is absurd. Yamaha themselves have acknowledged that their bike is on the mature side of the development curve and will have to be majorly overhauled to be competitive with the new engine rules AND the boys at HRC seem to have a leg up in this regard. Yamaha has show NO inclination towards cost cutting or stepping on anyones toes... they have made savvy personnel decisions which will see three of the five dominant riders (assuming Spies wins WSBK and makes the jump) on their machinery in '10. Everything Yamaha has done has been win-win for them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2009, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well Garry this one goes in the OBVIOUSLY file... I don't think you'll get anyone contradicting the statement that that Duc is not easy to ride. Casey has more than proven that he is the only rider who has mounted that steed and wrangled it into submission. The rest (an illustrious rest, I'll admit) have, so far, been unable to tame the beast...

Exact;y, but there appears to be many diverse opinions although the post you quoted was in direct response to a statement saying that the 2008 M1 was not an easy bike to ride as indicated by JL's crashes, thus I kjust threw that line out there.

But your comments do raise an interesting point given the ongoing discussion around 'best' bike.

Should the 'best' bike be an easy bike to ride by comparison to the others in that field?

By the way, this is in no way aimed at you but just a general discussion point.





Gaz