Rossi set to race on Bridgestone in 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goatboy @ Oct 20 2007, 09:50 AM) [snapback]96189[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Just like they re-bounded in F1?

who gives a .... about FNONE anyway?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frosty58 @ Oct 20 2007, 04:08 PM) [snapback]96198[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
who gives a .... about FNONE anyway?LMFAO

Boy Rossi really does have some sway!!!

Is it really reasonable to have expected him to win last year?? Then this year after having lost last year??

I really don't think it will matter if he is on Cheng Shins or IRC's or whatever ... next year he will be lower on the ladder.

Why .... because he is past his prime!!!

By the reasoning some folk seem to follow: Ago would still be riding and at the top ..... as too would Doohan ....... wow what a world!! Riders just get better and better with age .

What next .... riders never get old and die??

Yep Rossi must be God to some, and it appears maybe to Rossi himself

Sadly I now wonder if all this "carry-on" will detract from him retiring with dignity ....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 20 2007, 03:24 PM) [snapback]96201[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Boy Rossi really does have some sway!!!

Is it really reasonable to have expected him to win last year?? Then this year after having lost last year??

I really don't think it will matter if he is on Cheng Shins or IRC's or whatever ... next year he will be lower on the ladder.

Why .... because he is past his prime!!!

By the reasoning some folk seem to follow: Ago would still be riding and at the top ..... as too would Doohan ....... wow what a world!! Riders just get better and better with age .

What next .... riders never get old and die??

Yep Rossi must be God to some, and it appears maybe to Rossi himself


Sadly I now wonder if all this "carry-on" will detract from him retiring with dignity ....


Surely you jest. Rossi is not past his prime. By far. I think that hey may have a couple, if not three year left in him.

He maybe should have won last year but he showed quite a few chinks in his Armour last year so.... This year there was noway possible for him to win.
I think that maybe this year should have opened his eyes and quieted his Ego. He has maintained that it is the Rider that is the primary in the three headed triumvirate of Bike/Rider/Tyres (plus circumstances). I think he has now seen that all three must be in perfect sync in order to win/dominate.

I still maintain that he is making a grave mistake.

• 
  []No Chief Michelin tyre tester -CEII onboard
  []No historical data on the characteristics of the I-4 bike and it's effect on tyre wear
  []No Support from fellow riders/team in terms of setup etc
  • 
    
    Rossi has some tremendously huge brass Bowling balls.....
    
    Let's look at the position that he has put Yamaha and himself in. He has all but said by <u>his actions </u>that noone could possible bring the title back to Yamaha but himself. Thus he should get what he wants/needs to be competitve. Not to mention Dornas chief cash cow should not be riding the middle to back of the pack. So everyone has jumped to his needs/whinging.
    
    Here is Yamaha's hopes if Rossi is a complete dud next year.
    CEII - mid packer to almost back marker - Good for a hot qualifying lap.
    Toseland doesn't know the bike/tyres or circuits - thus what real results from him.
    Lorenzo - he is the future and will take at least two years to over come Rossi, Stoner, Pedrosa, Melandri, etc. Probably gives the best Results on Michelins for Yamaha.
    
    Rossi is Biaggi'ing himself into a corner. If he doesn't win next year, a lot of his influence will be spent.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Duc999 @ Oct 20 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]96206[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Surely you jest. Rossi is not past his prime. By far. I think that hey may have a couple, if not three year left in him.

He maybe should have won last year but he showed quite a few chinks in his Armour last year so.... This year there was noway possible for him to win.


He certainly did not look past his prime at assen.

It is also true that nobody no matter how perfectly they rode the 2007 yamaha could have beaten stoner on this year's ducati.

Nevertheless, as my favourite band sing, time waits for no-one. His problem is that if he doesn't win for a 3rd successive season, his goatship will perhaps unfairly come into question as some of the other challengers retired right at the top. He is well aware there will be no asterixes in 25 years time in the record books saying the michelins were no good or that the ducati traction control was far superior.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 20 2007, 04:24 PM) [snapback]96201[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Boy Rossi really does have some sway!!!

Is it really reasonable to have expected him to win last year?? Then this year after having lost last year??

I really don't think it will matter if he is on Cheng Shins or IRC's or whatever ... next year he will be lower on the ladder.

Why .... because he is past his prime!!!

By the reasoning some folk seem to follow: Ago would still be riding and at the top ..... as too would Doohan ....... wow what a world!! Riders just get better and better with age .

What next .... riders never get old and die??

Yep Rossi must be God to some, and it appears maybe to Rossi himself

Sadly I now wonder if all this "carry-on" will detract from him retiring with dignity ....



past his prime i dont think so , i think all these problems have broken his confidence tho, to be honest i dont even think using bridgestone's will help him much, the M1 is awful and i hope yamaha can fix the problem or slip in a v4 for next season or it will be the same as this year, he is battering the candyfloss tyres because hes pushing the m1 to the limits.
i still belive that rossi wanted 10 WC under his belt before he signs off and i think he can do it but not with yamaha unless the can pull some tricks and come out with a competative machine, but that is doubtfull.
i noticed yamaha are blaming michelin also, but its like hello its not just the tires your bike is .....

we will just have to wait till next season and see what happens.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skidmark @ Oct 20 2007, 03:15 PM) [snapback]96181[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Wise up Rog, fear? Come on mate, give me more credit than that. I said I actually hope it works out for Rossi on stones but only for my own selfish reasons, that we'd get some great racing. But in the real world it's a dirty move by all involved. Yamaha's strategy in terms of the riders they've hired/retained and a new team structure for 2008 is obviously geared around going forward with their new 800 motor and Michelin. I'm sure this was not a route they took without careful consideration and much consultation with all involved, including Michelin. So with a solid, coherent Yamaha 4 bike strategy looking strong for '08, Rossi spits the dummy and says no, against even the wise words of his vastly more experienced chief tech JB. It can only create confusion at Yamaha and that's the last thing they need if they're going to beat Ducati and an every improving Honda. Kenny Snr said that going racing whilst trying to develop with one bike is insanely difficult, albeit impossible. Who am I to argue. Is it any different on any other bike? I am sure that Rossi's notion is not well thought of by Yamaha but nevertheless Rossi seems to know better, he has never raced on Bridgestones and neither has any Yamaha before so it could hardly be called an informed decision, more like dare I say it, desperation. What I'm ultimately saying is that I'm not impresssed with the way it's come about, who is? Yamaha have been too soft with him and I'll be amazed if it works, he may actually have a better chance of reclaiming his title on Michelins.

if a rider changes bike/team because they are not performing ,no one bats an eyelid .so why should it be different for tyres ? as for jb, he aint the one riding the bike out there at 200mph on shreddies as one of our forum members calls michilins.
michilin have had a whole season to get there act together, they just dont seem interested anymore. it has been reported that bridgstone is the only manifactier that said it will bid to be the single tyre supplier should dorna want a control tyre rule. that to me shows how interested michilin are in motogp.
michilins performance has been so poor they dont deserve to have rossi ride on them or pedrosa and hayden for that matter.
i think dorna should hold a secret ballet where the riders can vote for which rubber they would like to ride on and the rules then altered accordingly.
i said fear skid because i really can not see any just reason for the comments that are being said regarding rossis tyre change. its not rossis fault bridgestone have said no to the others that wanted them, but the mear fact others like pedro wanted stones shows a vote of no confidence in michilins.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 20 2007, 05:56 PM) [snapback]96210[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
michilin have had a whole season to get there act together, they just dont seem interested anymore. it has been reported that bridgstone is the only manifactier that said it will bid to be the single tyre supplier should dorna want a control tyre rule. that to me shows how interested michilin are in motogp.


What a load of rubbish. Michelin have clearly stated that they are commited to motogp and intened to stick at it. They have no interest in the single tyre rule because its their (quite famous) company policy not to race if there is no competition.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Duc999 @ Oct 21 2007, 01:56 AM) [snapback]96206[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Surely you jest. Rossi is not past his prime. By far. I think that hey may have a couple, if not three year left in him.


No I don't jest! Why would I jest about such a thing??

You can't tell me 2004/05 he didn't seem unassailable ....
2006 I remember seeing him look rattled and he just had lost something and lo and behold a rider got close to him on points .... I must admit I still thought he would come out on top in 2006 but no he lost ..... points don't lie.

2007 he has looked like the best of the dominated at best .... the only time I thought he was still a possible was Jerez. . ... but towards the end the point difference is huge and "he" has not looked the rider he used too. He used to look like Stoner did this year .... like he was going to ride the bike on the edge and was going to try and wrestle that thing to a win.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 21 2007, 02:18 AM) [snapback]96207[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
He certainly did not look past his prime at assen.


No thats right!! he did look like the old Rossi a bit at Assen ..... but in years gone by he would do that every race ... just chase them down and either win ..... crash or come very close to the win. Even his crashes these days do not seem as dramatic ..... no more "gung ho" is what I would suggest.

But gee Assen only? ( thats pretty dismal ) .... no actually I also thought he looked like he was giving a darn good go at Catalunya too to be honest


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 21 2007, 02:46 AM) [snapback]96209[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
past his prime i dont think so ,


What indicators would you be seeing, that I can't in my ignorance??? that suggest he is not on the wane?


I think the trouble is folk get religious ..... ok maybe not just about "common spiritual beliefs" but also about idolising a person such as Rossi ... and as such folk are putting unreal expectations on him. And since he is not meeting those expectations ...... it can't possibly be the mesiah!! its the bike ...... its the tyres ...... its the TC .... Dorna are conspiring ..... the tax man is worrying him ( I actually feel this one is legit ) ... blah blah blah


Ask yourself who would win a season if you could put all of these Rossi's in a race:

2000 Rossi
2001 "
2002 "
2003 "
2004 "
2005 "
2006 "
2007 "

Graph the points he got for the year for those and I think it becomes obvious which Rossi would have won .... it would also become obvious his performance curve is dropping .... and dramatically now.

Do the same for michelins yearly points or Yamahas .....

I don't understand all the fighting over characterizing Rossi:

1. Rossi is a genius
2. Rossi is a sellout
3. Rossi is overly passionate and hasty

1. Rossi is a genius because he ..... slapped Bridgestone for making the most vainglorious boast in all of sports. That they were foregoing the money and the domination of the sport to uphold competition. I've never heard anything so preposterous. It was an insult to the reasonable people who watch MotoGP. Rossi went up the chain of command and showed Bridgestone he could force them to do what he wanted (applause for Rossi imo, b/c B-stone had their propaganda machine working overtime, and somebody needed to smash it before I puked).

2. Rossi is a sellout. Rossi talks about how the sport needs B-stones on every bike. Rossi talks about how the tires are deciding races. Rossi takes a deal that gets him B-stones and leaves everyone else screwed. Typical

3. Rossi made the move in haste. I can't say I blame him, the M1 has been completely inept this season, it's been painful watching him ride it. But lets be honest, he's been throwing a tantrum. He's the baby boomer of the sport, he's in power but his clock is ticking. Time to loot the joint before he deploys his golden parachute.

There is no right and no wrong in any of this mess. There are nothing but a bunch of arrogant, obstinate, boastful, prideful, vain political-hacks running organizations that are in constant conflict with one another. Sprinkle that powder keg with some of the worst rules changes in the history of motorsport, and you have the current disaster.

Ugh, this sport is looking more and more like F1 every day.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Oct 21 2007, 04:27 AM) [snapback]96220[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Time to loot the joint before he deploys his golden parachute.


Tis looking a bit like that isn't it




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Oct 21 2007, 04:27 AM) [snapback]96220[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
and you have the current disaster.


But wheres the disaster??

I mean Hayden won last year ( you must have been happy about that ) ..... Stoner this year ( I'm happy about that...

I think it could become a disaster though ..... It'll be a disiaster if ..... a one tyre rule comes in .... or if riders/teams don't have the ability to chose their tyre brand.

I think its to early to write off Rossi just yet as some others here have suggested.There no denying his skill,talent or determination but Im not sure the move to Bridgestone is the answer to his problems, sounds like a band-aid solution. Its strange or funny when you go back to pre-season testing his M1/Michelin was the ducks guts then as the year went on and blame game started, The tyre rule,the tyres, Yamaha,the racing is boring, nobody wants to see races like this,etc. Rossi talks about how the tyres are deciding races, Yet he didn't complain when he and Michelin won 5 world titles together and Michelin have dominated the sport from the early 90's till last year. Time will tell that if he gets his way and moves to Bridgestone that its the right decision.How will the team work the riders on different tyres?? Will other teams/riders cry foul?? Sounds like it may cause more problems rather than solve any.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 21 2007, 02:56 AM) [snapback]96210[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

i think dorna should hold a secret ballet where the riders can vote for which rubber they would like to ride on and the rules then altered accordingly.



Well of course you do, because Vale isn't on preferred rubber at the moment.
But he has been for a long time before this season and there were zero complaints from any riders or fans about tyre regulations then.
He has done none of the Bridgestone development work to get the tyres to a competitive stage and I'm pretty sure Ducati, Kawasaki and Suzuki will be more than a little bit pissed off about the blatant favouritism this decision has shown.

Interesting really that Michelin has been THE dominant tyre for a very long time & MotoGP could have almost been called a single tyre series because that was the only brand that was remotely competitive so natuarlly the majority of riders used their rubber...

Now along comes Bridgestone with what must have seemed like a mountain to climb, to firstly convince some teams to go with them in the knowledge that it would take time to develop a competitive product & also take time to adapt the machinery to suit said product.

So who are the teams that take on the challenge? Suzuki & the new Ducati & Kawasaki outfits, who I guess at the time had little to lose given that they were either sporadically fast or woefully underdeveloped depending on who we're talking about.

Fast forward a few years and after the 2006 season where Bridgestone has it's best year so far, they still find themselves in a situation where Michelin runners have won 3 x as many races as theirs have, despite having performed much hard work & copping a flogging at the hands of the established Michelin teams for a long time. At this time, the chorus of calls for a control tyre are still disturbingly quiet!

Roll on 2007 & Bridgestone finally begins to gain the ascendency on Michelin and Casey Stoner quite fortutitously manages to "gel" fantastically well with his new team & the new Ducati GP7...

He reels off 9 race wins (so far), although Michelin riders still have managed to win 5 so far so it's not exactly the white-wash that some would have us believe (& on a side note it's amazing that the oft-described "heap of ...." Yamaha still manages to carry Rossi to 4 very famous & well deserved wins).

So for the first year out of many, other teams apart from the "old school" Michelin teams actually have a technical advantage & straight away the chorus of calls for either a "control tyre" or certain riders to have the newly dominant equipment made available to them erupt.

I understand why Rossi wants to jump ship & hey, I'd probably want to do the same in his position but it's only one small part of the equation that is his situation.

But I also understand why those that have worked tyrelessly (pun intended) to develop the Bridgestone rubber to it's present state, are now annoyed that Vale will now get to enjoy the fruits of their labours after years of having their ..... handed to them by the Michelin runners who have up until now enjoyed the same technical advantages that Bridgestone now have...

From a personal perspective I'd probably love to see Rossi on the 'stones as that will be one less thing that the doubters can throw in Casey's direction but ultimately I don't think it will make much difference to Rossi's performance anyway (of course, I may be easily proved wrong in this) or to Stoner's detractors...

I think Rossi's proven he can make up the difference riding an inferior bike... everything but the tyres that is.

So it should be interesting and we will see a proper show... Dorna will be happy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 20 2007, 05:44 PM) [snapback]96213[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
He used to look like Stoner did this year .... like he was going to ride the bike on the edge and was going to try and wrestle that thing to a win.


This at least is true. The ducati is obviously the fastest bike on race tyres, but I think people underestimate how difficult it is to ride it that fast. Stoner's dominant rides seem to be characterised by absolutely ferociously intense focus and continual riding on the edge; livio suppo in the late stages of the PI race when casey was well in the lead was calling for him to slow down in the TV commentary. In the races both early and late in the season when he has ridden for a position rather than the win the ducati has not looked nearly as impressive. It has also taken a rider as talented as capirossi most of the season to adapt to the bike/ have the bike adapted to him, and he still doesn't have stoner's ultimate pace.

I am sure valentino could ride the ducati very fast immediately if not sooner, but I am not sure about everyone else.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 21 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]96256[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I am sure valentino could ride the ducati very fast immediately if not sooner, but I am not sure about everyone else.


Yes I agree he would possibly be fast on a Ducati ...... the points say he would be second fastest! ... if we take into account the rider is a huge contibution to win ..... and we do otherwise why would we say such things as "Rossi would be fast straight up on the Duc." .... or "Rossi can win on anything" ..... seems odd thinking to me when Rossi wins its Rossi .... when others do they are on the best bike or best tyres .....

I really do think some bikes suit some people better eg. just compare Capi and Stoner, Rossi and Edwards, Hayden and Pedrosa .... but there is also a difference in the current ability of the riders in each of those pairs that gives them the real edge. To try and then separate out which rider is the best is much more indistinct .... one would have to then look at team/bike type combinations and then factor in that ..... but if put simply Stoner is that good, or Rossi is that good .... it will just make al other statistics biased as well to look like it was ... the bike ... the tyres ....

so in the end we have to assume that the final points of the rider/bike/tyres/team/electronics all went into the win .... Jeremy Burgess once made an "off-the-cuff" remark that the rider is 80% ..... was this hard fact?? I wouldn't stake too much on it but it could be a good generalisation .....

The trouble is ... after years of domination etc. that folk have begun to attribute more to Rossi than perhaps he is currently capable of .... it was only a matter of time when someone else "wanted it" more or was more capable of the win .... eg. Hayden in 2006 and now Stoner in 2007 ....

Its all just denial and non-acceptance of the cold hard facts .... why ... because folk are "religious" about Rossi and will not accept that perhaps god did not exist

To me he peaked years ago, both watching him ride and by the points. I don't understand the logic behind such statements as "he will come back" ..... its been a few years now where he has not ....

Gee even Rossi is talking of going to Rally now ..... why?
I bet there are even those out there who expect him to go into rally and dominate

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 21 2007, 05:53 AM) [snapback]96258[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The trouble is ... after years of domination etc. that folk have begun to attribute more to Rossi than perhaps he is currently capable of .... it was only a matter of time when someone else "wanted it" more or was more capable of the win .... eg. Hayden in 2006 and now Stoner in 2007 ....

Its all just denial and non-acceptance of the cold hard facts .... why ... because folk are "religious" about Rossi and will not accept that perhaps god did not exist

To me he peaked years ago, both watching him ride and by the points. I don't understand the logic behind such statements as "he will come back" ..... its been a few years now where he has not ....


I am actually at heart a fairly rabid stoner fan, and it is my hope that he will eventually achieve similar status to rossi or doohan at least as a rider.

Until and unless he does, I am trying to be fair-minded, to not disrespect rossi who will forever be an all-time great, and to not make extravagant claims prematurely(I don't think you are doing this either).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 21 2007, 06:53 AM) [snapback]96258[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
To try and then separate out which rider is the best is much more indistinct .... one would have to then look at team/bike type combinations and then factor in that ..... but if put simply Stoner is that good, or Rossi is that good .... it will just make al other statistics biased as well to look like it was ... the bike ... the tyres ....

so in the end we have to assume that the final points of the rider/bike/tyres/team/electronics all went into the win .... Jeremy Burgess once made an "off-the-cuff" remark that the rider is 80% ..... was this hard fact?? I wouldn't stake too much on it but it could be a good generalisation .....


No, its probably 50% now if even that sometimes.

I don't doubt Rossi's talent because hes won in every different type of championship. 125, 250, 500, motogp multiple times switched manufacturer even.

Stoner British 125 championship, one motogp championship on the fastest bike on the grid with brigestones. Previously Pedrosas bridesmade in 250, fell off the Honda all last season.

Is it even comparable to compare Rossi with anyone still racing today?

I think Stoner has been riding well this season and growing confident race by race, everything coming together brought the best out of him. Can he keep it up? If Ducati keep the bike ahead of the rest.