Rossi set to race on Bridgestone in 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Oct 18 2007, 06:02 PM) [snapback]95755[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Dont even bother starting on James when you have NOTHING to go off regarding his moto gp ability.

stoner = BRIDGESTONE champion


tinks,

I agree with you 100% that it's ridiculous to try to rate JT in MotoGP before he's turned a wheel so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he's done his first full season... ( ditto for Ant West for that matter ).

But that last line is a real stinker, sorry...

Over the last few years, has anyone on this forum accused either Rossi or Hayden a being MICHELIN champions? Not to the best of my knowledge anyway...

On similar tyres it would absolutely be closer between Vale & Stoner towards the end of the races but that does not automatically mean that Rossi would always be the winner. Even Rossi was quoted as saying that "Casey is riding like a god"... there was no mention of tyres there!

Whether you like Casey or not, don't take away from the guy's achievements by using the old "he only won because of (insert relevant complaint here), otherwise every championship ever contested is available to attack...

Clearly Muzzy is the calming voice of reason on this forum..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(muzzy57 @ Oct 18 2007, 09:23 AM) [snapback]95760[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
tinks,

I agree with you 100% that it's ridiculous to try to rate JT in MotoGP before he's turned a wheel so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he's done his first full season... ( ditto for Ant West for that matter ).

But that last line is a real stinker, sorry...

Over the last few years, has anyone on this forum accused either Rossi or Hayden a being MICHELIN champions? Not to the best of my knowledge anyway...

On similar tyres it would absolutely be closer between Vale & Stoner towards the end of the races but that does not automatically mean that Rossi would always be the winner. Even Rossi was quoted as saying that "Casey is riding like a god"... there was no mention of tyres there!

Whether you like Casey or not, don't take away from the guy's achievements by using the old "he only won because of (insert relevant complaint here), otherwise every championship ever contested is available to attack...


Im so sick of pinky. In the past i have acknowleged tht stoner has rode good races and has improved greatly as a rider.
HOWEVER
I just dont see how with the tyre difference being how it is MASSIVE you can truely compare rossi and stoner in the same championship.
Ask yourself this: If it wouldve been the same rules as last year would stoner have beat rossi?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Oct 18 2007, 09:24 AM) [snapback]95762[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Clearly Muzzy is the calming voice of reason on this forum..


oh get off the fence your only saying that cos u support antony west and he stuck up for him.

I do quite like ant, at the end of the day he has a lot less 800cc experience than most of the other current moto gp riders yet hes challenging for 8/9/10th place so i think he's doing great.


Im sorry if anyone thinks my comments are harsh but i just think that stoner with all his whinging is doing my head in and himself no favours.

Its important to remmber with the whole bridestone thing that michelin made a lot of sacrifices - they were prepared to reduce the number of tyres allowed and also agreed to not flying tyres in over night so i do think its unfair for them to be villified for not doign well this season when it was what dorna/bridgestone asked of them .

Actuallly, Muzzy argued a good case for both sides of the disagreement.. Thats all im getting at.. Im CLEARLY not on the fence

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Oct 18 2007, 09:02 AM) [snapback]95755[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Unless stoner is scared... he's doing an awful lot of whinging.



I've read that Stoner wants Rossi to switch tyres so he can stop his bitching.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Oct 18 2007, 09:50 AM) [snapback]95764[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I just dont see how with the tyre difference being how it is MASSIVE you can truely compare rossi and stoner in the same championship.

Ask yourself this: If it wouldve been the same rules as last year would stoner have beat rossi?



1. If the tyre difference was as massive as you seem to be sure it is, why can only one bridgestone guy beat the Michelin runners in the championship?

2. Yes, i think Stoner would

As for your comment about all of Michelins "sacrafices", the only thing they gave up is there advantage, its not like they did anyone a favour.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Oct 18 2007, 10:11 AM) [snapback]95766[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>


As for your comment about all of Michelins "sacrafices", the only thing they gave up is there advantage, its not like they did anyone a favour.

it was only an advantage because bridgstone wouldnt do overnighters, that was there choice. there were more than capable of doing this like michilin but rather than spend the money they moaned to dorna to get the rule changed altering the way michilin have done there trade for decades.
mabe it was stones who needed to get there act together but instead they force a rule change to give them a temporary advantage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 18 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]95767[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
it was only an advantage because bridgstone wouldnt do overnighters, that was there choice. there were more than capable of doing this like michilin but rather than spend the money they moaned to dorna to get the rule changed altering the way michilin have done there trade for decades.
mabe it was stones who needed to get there act together but instead they force a rule change to give them a temporary advantage.


BUT, michelin signed that tyre rule agreement.... so its on them to pull their collective finger out and produce winning tyres again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BigAl @ Oct 18 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]95768[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
BUT, michelin signed that tyre rule agreement.... so its on them to pull their collective finger out and produce winning tyres again.

you think they really had a choice ? dorna are already talking about a control tyre rule so that in its self shows they will force there hand, i suspect michilin were told "sign or .... off"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>QUOTE(BigAl @ Oct 18 2007, 10:26 AM)

BUT, michelin signed that tyre rule agreement.... so its on them to pull their collective finger out and produce winning tyres again.
they are but its no quite as simple as that, they were told to change the whole way they develop tyres and operate there business. michilin always made specific tyres unlike stones all rounders which is way mich did over nighters, now they had to change the whole way they do things, i suspect they are having trouble with that which is why rossi has indicated a move to stones.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 18 2007, 07:17 PM) [snapback]95767[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
it was only an advantage because bridgstone wouldnt do overnighters, that was there choice. there were more than capable of doing this like michilin but rather than spend the money they moaned to dorna to get the rule changed altering the way michilin have done there trade for decades.
mabe it was stones who needed to get there act together but instead they force a rule change to give them a temporary advantage.

What a load of bollocks! Flying tyres from Japan to mostly European destinations was never feasible. Bridgestone got their act together and michelin have been left melting on the tarmac this year. Remember all the manufacturers signed up to the new rules this year. Where's your evidence that bridgestone forced a tyre rule change?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Oct 18 2007, 10:51 AM) [snapback]95772[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
What a load of bollocks! Flying tyres from Japan to mostly European destinations was never feasible. Bridgestone got their act together and michelin have been left melting on the tarmac this year. Remember all the manufacturers signed up to the new rules this year. Where's your evidence that bridgestone forced a tyre rule change?

do you think michilin volentered for it ??
and why didn't bridgestone fly in tyres for the asain and american rounds ? we live in the jet age now mate !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 18 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]95774[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
do you think michilin volentered for it ??
and why didn't bridgestone fly in tyres for the asain and american rounds ? we live in the jet age now mate !

By my reckoning there are 2 rounds in Asia where it MIGHT be feasible to fly in tyres - China and Malaysia. How many in Europe are feasible for michelin? England, Holland, Germany, Italy, San Marino, Portugal, Valencia, Jerez, Catalunya, Czech Republic and possibly Turkey and Qatar. Seems like michelin had more than a fair advantage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Oct 18 2007, 11:08 AM) [snapback]95775[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
By my reckoning there are 2 rounds in Asia where it MIGHT be feasible to fly in tyres - China and Malaysia. How many in Europe are feasible for michelin? England, Holland, Germany, Italy, San Marino, Portugal, Valencia, Jerez, Catalunya, Czech Republic and possibly Turkey and Qatar. Seems like michelin had more than a fair advantage.

so you think flying tyre's to quatar,usa,japan, austraila, would be easer for michilin than bridgstone ? and you can add africa to that list in 04.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 18 2007, 08:22 PM) [snapback]95777[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
so you think flying tyre's to quatar,usa,japan, austraila, would be easer for michilin than bridgstone ?

Did I say that? Qatar probably yes, Japan is bridgestone home ground. I deliberately left out Japan and France because they are michelin and bridgestone's home turf. The rest are not feasible for anyone.

As others have said earlier on this thread, I dont have a problem with someone who has won 5 world championships and made major contributions to the sport in a number of ways being more influential than riders who have won one or no championships, particularly as valentino apparently supported the tyre rule change for this year which was unlikely to be to his advantage.

I say this with the proviso that I believe in this as long him switching to bridgestones or whatever, which may be a consideration for him for one year only, does not have a long term and possibly irreversible deleterious effect on the sport. I believe a control tyre is at least premature at this stage.

I agree that it could backfire, although I am also inclined to think that valentino's judgement in this matter is likely to be better than any of ours. There seems to be evidence to suggest that ducati have some sort of magic traction control system which may be contributing to the apparent greater longevity of the tyres, in which case he would be left with tyres not substantially better and not suited to the 2008 yamaha which has presumably been developed to suit the michelins.

In any case they should at least liberalise the rules.

link

bridgstone is currently the largest tyre manufacturer in the world.

Bridgestone is currently ranked as the top company in the global tyre market, with Michelin second and Goodyear third. As of the end of 2005, production facilities belonging to the Bridgestone Group have increased to 141 spread throughout twenty-four nations of the world. In order to attain this level of globalization, the company established a new set of corporate policies in the year 2001. In continuation of this, company's Brand Vision was also established in 2003.

as i have said, bridgstone were more than capable of flying overnighter to anywhere in the world but chose not to .
michilin had the best logistics in the world, bridgstone could quite easly have competed with them on that level.

Bridgestone has major manufacturing plants in many countries around the world. Presently (2007) Bridgestone has 57 Tyre plants, 98 Diversified Product plants, and 4 Major Technical Centres globally. Some of the major plants are located in:
EUROPE AMERICAS ASIA/OCEANIA MIDDLE EAST/AFRICA
Italy North America Japan Iran
Hungary Argentina Australia Turkey
Poland Brazil New Zealand South Africa
Spain Costa Rica China Liberia (raw materials)
France Puerto Rico India
Belgium Mexico Indonesia
Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina Venezuela Korea
Chile Taiwan
Canada Thailand
Malaysia
Philippines

looks like they have most gp's covered here!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BigAl @ Oct 18 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]95768[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
BUT, michelin signed that tyre rule agreement.... so its on them to pull their collective finger out and produce winning tyres again.


bridgestone sacrificed nothing though thats the point im getting at michelin made all the compromises

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 18 2007, 08:43 PM) [snapback]95780[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
link

bridgstone is currently the largest tyre manufacturer in the world.

Bridgestone is currently ranked as the top company in the global tyre market, with Michelin second and Goodyear third. As of the end of 2005, production facilities belonging to the Bridgestone Group have increased to 141 spread throughout twenty-four nations of the world. In order to attain this level of globalization, the company established a new set of corporate policies in the year 2001. In continuation of this, company's Brand Vision was also established in 2003.



What has this got to do with flying tyres in overnight?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 18 2007, 10:43 AM) [snapback]95780[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
link

as i have said, bridgstone were more than capable of flying overnighter to anywhere in the world but chose not to .
michilin had the best logistics in the world, bridgstone could quite easly have competed with them on that level.


Were all the michelin riders getting the flown-in tyres?

It also takes 13 odd hours to fly from japan to europe (and another 9 hours to sydney-its not all roses being an australian) which cuts into your development and manufacturing time somewhat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Oct 18 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]95782[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
What has this got to do with flying tyres in overnight?

looks like they wouldnt need to, looks like they have a plant just round the corner.
so with this evidence it looks like michilin never really had an "advantage" after all

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 18 2007, 11:49 AM) [snapback]95784[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Were all the michelin riders getting the flown-in tyres?

i dont no, theres no way of knowing that unless you work for them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 18 2007, 08:43 PM) [snapback]95780[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
link

bridgstone is currently the largest tyre manufacturer in the world.

Bridgestone is currently ranked as the top company in the global tyre market, with Michelin second and Goodyear third. As of the end of 2005, production facilities belonging to the Bridgestone Group have increased to 141 spread throughout twenty-four nations of the world. In order to attain this level of globalization, the company established a new set of corporate policies in the year 2001. In continuation of this, company's Brand Vision was also established in 2003.

as i have said, bridgstone were more than capable of flying overnighter to anywhere in the world but chose not to .
michilin had the best logistics in the world, bridgstone could quite easly have competed with them on that level.

Bridgestone has major manufacturing plants in many countries around the world. Presently (2007) Bridgestone has 57 Tyre plants, 98 Diversified Product plants, and 4 Major Technical Centres globally. Some of the major plants are located in:
EUROPE AMERICAS ASIA/OCEANIA MIDDLE EAST/AFRICA
Italy North America Japan Iran
Hungary Argentina Australia Turkey
Poland Brazil New Zealand South Africa
Spain Costa Rica China Liberia (raw materials)
France Puerto Rico India
Belgium Mexico Indonesia
Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina Venezuela Korea
Chile Taiwan
Canada Thailand
Malaysia
Philippines

looks like they have most gp's covered here!!

Michelin have plants in China, Singapore and Tokyo as well. It still means FA.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Oct 18 2007, 08:44 PM) [snapback]95781[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
bridgestone sacrificed nothing though thats the point im getting at michelin made all the compromises

The point is that you have no point! If it was so bad for michelin why did they make any sacrifices at all?