Rossi Rues Set Up issues

Willski · Mar 10, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2008, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>without a doubt mate. i dont think anyone truly believes any one can go on for ever. but come on. he went from 7th on the grid to lead the race. i dont think he has lost his edge yet !

I agree Rog..The pack my be catching him, but he still the best all round rider out there, bike development, testing, wet, dry etc etc.

Stoner is a man on fire at the minute and does not seem fazed by anything. Jorge is gonna be a premier class world champ sometime soon. There are plenty of other talented boys out there as well.

Be interesting to see how things shake out at Jerez. Might give us a more accurate picture of how the season may shape up.

Gonna be exciting !

SackWack · Mar 10, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2008, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>without a doubt mate. i dont think anyone truly believes any one can go on for ever. but come on. he went from 7th on the grid to lead the race. i dont think he has lost his edge yet !

Old men get tired quicker. Heres an analogy. You remember back in the day when you could go for hours sometimes 2-3 times a day everyday of the week, then either one of two or both things happen. 1. You get bored with it. 2. You get older with less stamina and want it done quicker. I think that Rossi may be experiencing a little of both

chopperman · Mar 10, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Mar 10 2008, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Old men get tired quicker. Heres an analogy. You remember back in the day when you could go for hours sometimes 2-3 times a day everyday of the week, then either one of two or both things happen. 1. You get bored with it. 2. You get older with less stamina and want it done quicker. I think that Rossi may be experiencing a little of both

theres truth in what you say, i just dont think rossi is at that stage in his life yet. he is far from an "old man" he does not look unfit in any way. look at bayliss, he can also run the younger guys round the block a few times and come out on top.

Pinky · Mar 10, 2008

the younger guys were more hungry. divisioso prob knows he wont win the wc in 08, so had nothing to lose in this race. he is looking at individual races not the whole season. so if he crashed out, yeah it would hurt, but wouldnt really effect his overal changes in the season. rossi had to think about the season as a whole. there is no point in crashing into divisio and losing 15 points for the sake of gaining an extra point

mylexicon · Mar 10, 2008

I think the most interesting thing about Rossi is that he is finally faced with a situation where it is probable that the failure is him. That hasn't ever happened for him before.

Rossi would shred the Michelins and then every commentator, fanboy, and even people who didn't like him would automatically blame Michelin. In his first race on Bridgestones, he baked them trying to keep pace with Stoner, Lorenzo, and Pedrosa.

Interestingly enough he has the same problem Hayden had. Hayden used to be a beast on the brakes because he could kick the tail out and use full breaking force all the way to the apex before laying the bike over and shooting out of the turn. It worked great in the AMA (primitive tire tech) but when he came to motogp Hayden had to change--change has been brutal for him.

Whether or not Rossi can change his style and his tire management is a very interesting question. No one is faster than he is on equal machines, even sometimes when the opposition has a better machine. But since TC really became prevalent in Motogp (2006) Rossi hasn't faired well.

I'm not sure he can change. He's already begging to have the rules changed.

chopperman · Mar 10, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Mar 10 2008, 11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the younger guys were more hungry. divisioso prob knows he wont win the wc in 08, so had nothing to lose in this race. he is looking at individual races not the whole season. so if he crashed out, yeah it would hurt, but wouldnt really effect his overal changes in the season. rossi had to think about the season as a whole. there is no point in crashing into divisio and losing 15 points for the sake of gaining an extra point
good post mate.
...., someones hacked pinkys account.

i agree with you mate. the young guys did look more hungry and im sure rossi would be thinking of the whole season rather than the race. thats where he has changed over these past couple of years.
as for dovi, i didnt think of it like that, mabe you have a point after all he is on a customer honda.
i think we will all learn a lot come jerez..i cant ....... wait.

povol · Mar 10, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2008, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>good post mate.
...., someones hacked pinkys account.

i agree with you mate. the young guys did look more hungry and im sure rossi would be thinking of the whole season rather than the race. thats where he has changed over these past couple of years.
as for dovi, i didnt think of it like that, mabe you have a point after all he is on a customer honda.
i think we will all learn a lot come jerez..i cant ....... wait.

And there could lye the problem.Thinking in those terms was not what made Rossi great.He went out to win every race and fight for every posistion till the flag fell.If he is points racing,he is done.Its not who he is.Settling is not what made him great.

chopperman · Mar 10, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 11 2008, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And there could lye the problem.Thinking in those terms was not what made Rossi great.He went out to win every race and fight for every posistion till the flag fell.If he is points racing,he is done.Its not who he is.Settling is not what made him great.
i think he would prefer to still ride with that attitude but has had to evolve with the new bikes, hayden proved that it can work especially if you dont get on with you bike. you push to hard these days and dnf that will more than likley cost you the championship, not the case in the 500 and 990 days.

Duc999 · Mar 10, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 11 2008, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the most interesting thing about Rossi is that he is finally faced with a situation where it is probable that the failure is him. That hasn't ever happened for him before.

Rossi would shred the Michelins and then every commentator, fanboy, and even people who didn't like him would automatically blame Michelin. In his first race on Bridgestones, he baked them trying to keep pace with Stoner, Lorenzo, and Pedrosa.

Interestingly enough he has the same problem Hayden had. Hayden used to be a beast on the brakes because he could kick the tail out and use full breaking force all the way to the apex before laying the bike over and shooting out of the turn. It worked great in the AMA (primitive tire tech) but when he came to motogp Hayden had to change--change has been brutal for him.

Whether or not Rossi can change his style and his tire management is a very interesting question. No one is faster than he is on equal machines, even sometimes when the opposition has a better machine. But since TC really became prevalent in Motogp (2006) Rossi hasn't faired well.

I'm not sure he can change. He's already begging to have the rules changed.

+1

Good point on the traction control issue as well.

Anyways. My point is Rossi is in a world of hurt this year.
This is indeed a time where the failure may be all down to him. Melandri/Nakano/Rossi and other old school riders are having issues with TC along with getting their butts kicked by the extremely hungry Rookies.

With the Rookies doing as well as they are, Rossi doesn't have time to not get things right the first time.

There was nothing he could do with Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Stoner or Dovi. I believe that Toseland may have gotten him if he had the Pneumatic valve engine.

Word to Rossi: Dude get it right. Get it done... I would like to see the most competitive season of Motogp in a while with you in the mix not fading like Hoppers...

BarryMachine · Mar 10, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 11 2008, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But since TC really became prevalent in Motogp (2006) Rossi hasn't faired well.

Why was the TC not "really" as "prevalent before 2006?

michaelm · Mar 10, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Duc999 @ Mar 11 2008, 03:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My point is Rossi is in a world of hurt this year.
This is indeed a time where the failure may be all down to him. Melandri/Nakano/Rossi and other old school riders are having issues with TC along with getting their butts kicked by the extremely hungry Rookies.

With the Rookies doing as well as they are, Rossi doesn't have time to not get things right the first time.

There was nothing he could do with Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Stoner or Dovi. I believe that Toseland may have gotten him if he had the Pneumatic valve engine.

Word to Rossi: Dude get it right. Get it done... I would like to see the most competitive season of Motogp in a while with you in the mix not fading like Hoppers...
I agree with there being highly talented rookies but I wouldn't draw too many conclusions about rossi's competitiveness from the results of this race. All the talented rookies who were challenging him were on michelins, and colin edwards was right behind them; I don't think he has suddenly got this much closer to rossi. As rossi himself said he did not test as well at this track as elsewhere. The cool temperatures etc favoured michelin, and I think stoner knew more about the limitations of the bridgestone medium tyres needed to be competitive with michelin in these conditions as well as the ducati probably intrinsically being easier on tyres than the yamaha.

It was interesting that both stoner and rossi ran the race opposite to their usual pattern, with stoner hanging back and rossi going quickly to the lead. I think rossi partly got the bridgestones so he could go hard early and not let stoner get away, and this will be to his advantage elsewhere but was not the right tactic at night in qatar on these particular bridgestones.

mjpartyboy · Mar 11, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Mar 10 2008, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I personally don't think he's as good as he was a few years ago. NOT saying he's not good anymore, or that he can't win, because I do believe he's still able to win races, and challenge for the title. He's passed his peak, and that's ok.
Apart from Stoner's 10 wins last season I'm pretty sure Rossi won four of the 17, which is still more than the other riders. Mugello, Assen and the 11th place start were amazing wins. Correct me if I'm wrong, last season feels like a long time ago now!

J4rn0 · Mar 11, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Mar 11 2008, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the younger guys were more hungry. divisioso prob knows he wont win the wc in 08, so had nothing to lose in this race. he is looking at individual races not the whole season. so if he crashed out, yeah it would hurt, but wouldnt really effect his overal changes in the season. rossi had to think about the season as a whole. there is no point in crashing into divisio and losing 15 points for the sake of gaining an extra point

I agree with you.
Anyway, Rossi had obvious tyre problems, very visible from the 7th lap onwards to anybody with eyes a little accustomed to seeing these things. He started with the wrong setup - period. His fault.

Pedrosa and Dovizioso passed him because he had no other dueling option than braking harder into the corners and then hope not to go too wide when exiting. He could not open the throttle like them. It was a losing battle for third and then for fourth, still I find it good that he fought it without giving up.

SackWack · Mar 11, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Mar 11 2008, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you.
Anyway, Rossi had obvious tyre problems, very visible from the 7th lap onwards to anybody with eyes a little accustomed to seeing these things. He started with the wrong setup - period. His fault.

Pedrosa and Dovizioso passed him because he had no other dueling option than braking harder into the corners and then hope not to go too wide when exiting. He could not open the throttle like them. It was a losing battle for third and then for fourth, still I find it good that he fought it without giving up.
+1
And also blame it on the switch and the lack of knowledge about the Bridgstones. He should be very competitive once he figures the tires out, still maybe not enough to hang with the Ducati though

mylexicon · Mar 11, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 10 2008, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why was the TC not "really" as "prevalent before 2006?

Watch DTK.

In 2005 Nicky is talking about standing on the rear brake to keep everything on the ground. So is most of the rest of the field.

Then in the 2006 segment they ask him what will be different. He says well now we've got wheely control and traction control and he rattles off a few others I think. He said it would be interesting to see how it all worked.

Nicky, Dani, Marco, Toni, Casey, Makoto, KRJR (to a degree) all had that bike.

So 40% of the grid got upgraded and Ducati probably already had it.

jazkat · Mar 11, 2008

i read something interesting today on a forum, someone was saying that casey was the only rider using last years tyres because some of the new ones are not as good, im not sure if its just for qatar but anyway thats interesting??

aparantly he wasnt happy with the new rubber when testing so decided to use last years rubber for the race.

valerian · Mar 11, 2008

If I remember rightly the last time Rossi made a big change, he was rather successful and a lot of people thought he was foolish to change then.

I don't think Rossi will ever be the dominant force he was a few years back but I still think he has a championship in him. Give it a few races and then we can we can judge whether the move was a mistake and even then we could still be wrong.

povol · Mar 11, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2008, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think he would prefer to still ride with that attitude but has had to evolve with the new bikes, hayden proved that it can work especially if you dont get on with you bike. you push to hard these days and dnf that will more than likley cost you the championship, not the case in the 500 and 990 days.

So let me get this strait,when Nicky won a title, points racing,he was called everything from luckier than a ......... rat to the "crusing caretaker"[Your words].Now the god is points racing and its ok because he has not got a handle on his bike.Nicky never did get a handle on his bike because it changed on a weekly basis.As far as a DNF being more costly these days than in the past,what are you basing that on,that the bikes are less likely to break down,riders are less likely to go down or the fact that the field is just much stronger today than when Rossi was ringing up title after title.

Jumkie · Mar 11, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 9 2008, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"Rossi Rues Set Up issues, Hmm.. Rossi didn't get it done and Jorge did"

so you think hes making excuses??

anyone with eyes could see that he really had no grip after a few laps??
what you think he was in the lead and then decided to go slower on purpose??
eveything he says in them comments are true and you forget that the data that yamaha are using for there new riders is data that yamaha have been collecting for years.
michelin riders and stoner were cornering alot tighter, it was either a bad choice of rubber or they havent got the setup rite yet....
I'm sure Babel will find a way to take your 'subtle suggestions' and turn them in to an all out "tire issue" for Rossi.

Jumkie · Mar 11, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 10 2008, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi would shred the Michelins and then every commentator, fanboy, and even people who didn't like him would automatically blame Michelin. In his first race on Bridgestones, he baked them trying to keep pace with Stoner, Lorenzo, and Pedrosa.
Interesting. Good point.

And I'll add. Why is it that people are going on about the lacking experience part so much? Its not like the data from a year or two ago means ..... The tires I'm sure are completely and totally different today, not to mention the bike and chassis are different as well. Rossi is fine, and he is doing good enough at the moment. He will figure out the tires. I think however, we will find perhaps, that its not just one thing that needed to be change (silver bullet tires), but rather a whole host of factors, one of which is age. But for his age, I think he still has enough, at the moment. But the new blood has got him pined, at the moment. Jerez will tell us alot.

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Rossi Rues Set Up issues

Willski

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mylexicon

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povol

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michaelm

mjpartyboy

J4rn0

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