Rossi explains his desire for elimination of Traction Control

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Nov 15 2007, 12:02 AM) [snapback]100813[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I agree with you there, most of the way. Meaning I got nothing to say about the riders. Melandri has been learning, and of course without TC Stoner would have had more to handle, but all in all I can't say they are midpack riders succeding only because of TC, not at all.

But TC make a difference. JT had problems with the TC on one of the later races this season and the bike tried and succeded to throw him off.
That clearly show that it does matter.

I don't disagree with you at all. I saw nothing wrong with the old 990 formula. I think superior traction control probably has given ducati an advantage this year. It is also true that young riders can improve as you say.

My point which was in reply to another post was that if you argue that a superior bike can make a midfield rider look like a top rider particularly in the era of tc you probably have to accept the converse which is that an inferior bike can make a top rider look like a midfield rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krazy91 @ Nov 15 2007, 03:27 AM) [snapback]100831[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
id say it was never confrimed but seems to be the general thinking that it was honda that pushed for 800s for safety but many think it was because of pedrosas size and them thinking they will use their engineering power


Yes it is so - Honda is the one pulling the strings because they are by far the most powerful manufacturer, - that everybody knows, albeit nobody can say it openly. It seems to have turned against them in the first year, but it could well work the way they intended to from 2008 on...

Thanks for the info.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 14 2007, 05:14 PM) [snapback]100749[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
yea they will but I still get a little pissed when i see riders up near the front keeping the pace when i know they are not at that level and its the TC helping them to do that.


Well firstly i doubt your "knowledge" of which riders deserve to be where. Also, get over the fact the technology is moving foreward and just accept electronics and tyres and components of the bike, thats all they are. Sometimes one riders equipment is superior, sometimes it isn't, that is not a new concept.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frizzle @ Nov 14 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]100793[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Care to elaborate?


It's simple, Rossi is losing

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Nov 15 2007, 12:31 AM) [snapback]100819[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rossi, whether you like him or not, is a very switched on bloke (and I mean in the Engineering field, not the PR field) Also, he is not the only rider out there bemoaning the escalation of TC.


I think Rossi is very switched on mechanically and PR wise, however the things he says are definitely PR dominated. He loved the 800's at the beggining of the season...........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Nov 15 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]100819[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Also, he is not the only rider out there bemoaning the escalation of TC.



If the riders dislike TC so much ... then I'm sure they would either turn it down or turn it off ..... that is possible from what I've read .... Stoner mentioned he hit a white line at the start at Donnington and it gave the TC a heart attack ( hence his bad start ) ... he said it was switch selectable how much he used ... or turned it off.

I'm sure they are not stupid ..... if it was crap ... they'd turn it off.

As to whether it was helping the "bad" riders and not helping the "real winners win well .... gee .... lots of stuff on the bikes do that!! thats what a development formula is about ...

Why don't we pick on the fuel next ......

No wait!! forget I said that!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Nov 15 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]100879[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If the riders dislike TC so much ... then I'm sure they would either turn it down or turn it off ..... that is possible from what I've read .... Stoner mentioned he hit a white line at the start at Donnington and it gave the TC a heart attack ( hence his bad start ) ... he said it was switch selectable how much he used ... or turned it off.

I'm sure they are not stupid ..... if it was crap ... they'd turn it off.

As to whether it was helping the "bad" riders and not helping the "real winners win well .... gee .... lots of stuff on the bikes do that!! thats what a development formula is about ...

Why don't we pick on the fuel next ......

No wait!! forget I said that!!

who said it was "crap" ? some riders have said they would like to see it go for "everybody". tc is plainly not crap,just making the races less exciting.

Less exciting for whom?? I enjoyed it this year. One of the best seasons ever .......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Nov 15 2007, 09:57 AM) [snapback]100914[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Less exciting for whom?? I enjoyed it this year. One of the best seasons ever .......


NOW thats FUNNY

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Nov 15 2007, 03:57 PM) [snapback]100914[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Less exciting for whom?? I enjoyed it this year. One of the best seasons ever .......

you should get out more !

I know a lot of people here care about the risers more than the equipment. I don't.. I am more concerned about the manufacturers and giving them the best opportunity to show us how good their products are. At the end of the day, for any one who rides motorcyles, that what can impact our pocket book when we decide what product we want to spend our money on.

Did any one hear Rossi complaining when he was winning a ton of races on the RC211V? Look like he came up with this "makes for better racing" concept when he started losing. I agree with his opinion on TC, but not his many other complaints. Because in the years gone by he, as the top rider had the advantage -- say of Michelin's saturday night specials, or new parts on his works bikes. Now he is tuck with a mediocre manufacturer (atleast for last year), boo $%$#king hooo..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom)<div class='quotemain'> He loved the 800's at the beggining of the season.

And then what happenned?

you see, his current complaints are, IMHO, a case of "the grapes are sour". Now, the latest is that he threatens to switch to Ducati if Yamaha does not shape up. If he continues complaining, he may end up like Biaggi, without a ride.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Nov 15 2007, 09:22 PM) [snapback]100971[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I know a lot of people here care about the risers more than the equipment. I don't.. I am more concerned about the manufacturers and giving them the best opportunity to show us how good their products are. At the end of the day, for any one who rides motorcyles, that what can impact our pocket book when we decide what product we want to spend our money on.

Did any one hear Rossi complaining when he was winning a ton of races on the RC211V? Look like he came up with this "makes for better racing" concept when he started losing. I agree with his opinion on TC, but not his many other complaints. Because in the years gone by he, as the top rider had the advantage -- say of Michelin's saturday night specials, or new parts on his works bikes. Now he is tuck with a mediocre manufacturer (atleast for last year), boo $%$#king hooo..
And then what happenned?

you see, his current complaints are, IMHO, a case of "the grapes are sour". Now, the latest is that he threatens to switch to Ducati if Yamaha does not shape up. If he continues complaining, he may end up like Biaggi, without a ride.

really ? when did he say that ?

He didn't say it flat out, but he did imply it in his latest interview.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 15 2007, 02:32 PM) [snapback]100993[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
really ? when did he say that ?
Rossi: Ready to Consider Ducati Move

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Nov 15 2007, 11:58 AM) [snapback]100868[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think Rossi is very switched on mechanically and PR wise, however the things he says are definitely PR dominated. He loved the 800's at the beggining of the season...........

So you are an engineer (in training). I'm looking forward to <u>your</u> first experience where you say what you <u>believe</u> about a product in development to the customer and then the product does not live up to your pretty speech (been there - so not intending to be patronising!)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Nov 15 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]100879[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If the riders dislike TC so much ... then I'm sure they would either turn it down or turn it off ..... that is possible from what I've read .... Stoner mentioned he hit a white line at the start at Donnington and it gave the TC a heart attack ( hence his bad start ) ... he said it was switch selectable how much he used ... or turned it off.

I'm sure they are not stupid ..... if it was crap ... they'd turn it off.


It's impossible for a rider to "turn it off". The 800 bikes are designed with TC as an integral part and so the idea is a little like - sod the blahblah shock I have, think I'll try an off the shelf WhitePower...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Nov 15 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]100879[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
As to whether it was helping the "bad" riders and not helping the "real winners win well .... gee .... lots of stuff on the bikes do that!! thats what a development formula is about ...

What happened. Was everyone brainwashed overnight? Motogp/500's was never a "development formula". That's why we stayed with large cap 2 strokes long after you could buy one down the local bike shop. Also check out the equipment Agostini had as opposed to his rivals during his glory years...

This formula is supposed to be about <u>racing</u> and if they don't figure it out then the "top flight" could well be WSB any time soon, even on control tyres....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Nov 16 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]101025[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It's impossible for a rider to "turn it off". The 800 bikes are designed with TC as an integral part and so the idea is a little like - sod the blahblah shock I have, think I'll try an off the shelf WhitePower...


http://motorcycle-racing.suite101.com/arti...n_sepang_motogp

Read .... oh and it appears that it helps the slowest riders more to turn it off .... so in reality maybe only the faster riders can cope with TC?? ...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Nov 16 2007, 01:06 AM) [snapback]101046[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
http://motorcycle-racing.suite101.com/arti...n_sepang_motogp

Read .... oh and it appears that it helps the slowest riders more to turn it off .... so in reality maybe only the faster riders can cope with TC?? ...

Nope - Kurtis Roberts turned it off. I said...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
The 800 bikes are designed with TC as an integral part and so the idea is a little like - sod the blahblah shock I have, think I'll try an off the shelf WhitePower...

I was referring to <u>cutting edge</u> TC with a decent rider.

Sadly, the KR team has been consigned to the back of the grid and beyond this year. I hope the Ducati rumours are true...

BTW - check out Dovi's comments on 800's & TC...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Nov 16 2007, 12:01 AM) [snapback]101025[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So you are an engineer (in training). I'm looking forward to <u>your</u> first experience where you say what you <u>believe</u> about a product in development to the customer and then the product does not live up to your pretty speech (been there - so not intending to be patronising!)


I see your point, and i don't doubt that Rossi believed that his bike was as good as he said it was when the season started, but he is saying the problem lies in all sorts of rules when in fact the only problem he really has is his performance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Nov 16 2007, 12:23 PM) [snapback]101094[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I see your point, and i don't doubt that Rossi believed that his bike was as good as he said it was when the season started, but he is saying the problem lies in all sorts of rules when in fact the only problem he really has is his performance.

I'm not sure he's complained about the rules as such. He has however complained about the performance of both the Michelins and the Yamaha engine.

Again, as an engineer, I do not understand how you can categorically state that his only problem is with HIS performance rather than that of his bike and tyres.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Nov 16 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]101112[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I'm not sure he's complained about the rules as such. He has however complained about the performance of both the Michelins and the Yamaha engine.

Again, as an engineer, I do not understand how you can categorically state that his only problem is with HIS performance rather than that of his bike and tyres.


I think sometimes we as armchair racers should accept that Rossi et al know a hell of a lot more about the bikes tyres etc than we like to think we do.

Somebody with Rossi's pedigree is in a very strong position to influence what goes on around him because he has a proven track record in 125, 250, 500, 990 and 800s. Think about it, titles in 4 of the 5 capacities he has raced in, for 3 different manufacturers.

Yes he's made mistakes the last couple of seasons, but as has already been said, it's easy to fall when you are pushing a slower bike.

I also think that it takes balls to go to Bridgestones, coz he's putting his money where his mouth is. He has publically said that his tyres were not as good as the Stones this year, and is willing to back this up by moving over.

Comparing Rossi to Biaggi? well, i suppose their careers have been so similar since Biaggi won 5 premier titles........

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 15 2007, 03:51 PM) [snapback]100911[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
who said it was "crap" ? some riders have said they would like to see it go for "everybody". tc is plainly not crap,just making the races less exciting.


One rider without traction control will not cut it against guys with it and he'll probably be riding harder.

For me its either all in or all out.