Rossi and Stoner - What do they really think of each other?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2008, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. i dont care what anyone says , that nastro assuro nsr was a factory bike with full factory support. i mean where were the repsol boys in 2000 ? nowhere !!.

your making out stoner is /was the only real challenge, why ? because he won the 07 championship. that 1 championship just like nicky in 06 and krjr in 2000.

I can't reply all the posts but will make a few points.

Hayden was shafted last year and I hope he destroys Pedrosa this season. But part of beating Pedrosa involves ingratiating himself to the bosses at Honda so he can get more attention. It's political and if he doesn't get the same level of support that seems to be Pedrosa's birthright, then he needs to go elsewhere for '09.

Ok it was a factory bike.

As for Stoners championship year versus Hayden and krjr. Yes it's only one championship but he won how many races last year? Hayden and Roberts both had TWO wins each in their championship seasons. Hardly a dominating performance by any standard. Based on that alone I would call Stoner the biggest threat of Rossi's career. It's not just the winning of the championship but the way he went about it and dominated even the great Rossi. It's becoming obvious that Stoner is the difference on that Ducati, not tires, engine or electronics. Just ask Melandri and Capirossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 25 2008, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What is more head to head then two riders going into a race with an almost winner-takes all scenario on there hands. The first championship head to head Rossi ever had to deal with, and he lost out.
head to head tom is where 2 rider race each other closely not just being at the same circuit. about the only time nicky went head to head or his bike to rossi's arse was at the start of the 06 valencia race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reel Nauti @ Feb 25 2008, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can't reply all the posts but will make a few points.

Hayden was shafted last year and I hope he destroys Pedrosa this season. But part of beating Pedrosa involves ingratiating himself to the bosses at Honda so he can get more attention. It's political and if he doesn't get the same level of support that seems to be Pedrosa's birthright, then he needs to go elsewhere for '09.

Ok it was a factory bike.

As for Stoners championship year versus Hayden and krjr. Yes it's only one championship but he won how many races last year? Hayden and Roberts both had TWO wins each in their championship seasons. Hardly a dominating performance by any standard. Based on that alone I would call Stoner the biggest threat of Rossi's career. It's not just the winning of the championship but the way he went about it and dominated even the great Rossi. It's becoming obvious that Stoner is the difference on that Ducati, not tires, engine or electronics. Just ask Melandri and Capirossi.
errm, i thought kenny had 4 wins and 4 seconds in 2000. he beat rossi by 49 pts. rossi had 3 dnf's and kenny had 1 so it was a pretty close season .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2008, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>head to head tom is where 2 rider race each other closely not just being at the same circuit. about the only time nicky went head to head or his bike to rossi's arse was at the start of the 06 valencia race.

I suspected you might not consider Valencia 06 to be "head to head" due to Hayden's superiority. Everytime these riders take to the track together they are going head to head, sometimes their speeds are so similar that the issue is resolved using only racecraft but more often a rider stands more clearly above his rival, which is naturally a greater victory.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 25 2008, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I suspected you might not consider Valencia 06 to be "head to head" due to Hayden's superiority. Everytime these riders take to the track together they are going head to head, sometimes their speeds are so similar that the issue is resolved using only racecraft but more often a rider stands more clearly above his rival, which is naturally a greater victory.
well your idea of "head to head " is very different to mine, but you love F1 so i understand
this is what i consider head to head, not hayden & rossi at valencia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIDsSmv2Jus...feature=related

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2008, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well your idea of "head to head " is very different to mine, but you love F1 so i understand
this is what i consider head to head, not hayden & rossi at valencia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIDsSmv2Jus...feature=related

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2008, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>firstly, the satelite honda rossi rode was prettyt much a factory bike apart from the paint, do you think with doohan by his side he would of had second best ?


i was commenting on the highlighted bit here. how can you not say krjnr and hayden were not real competition when they beat him ?

1. i dont care what anyone says , that nastro assuro nsr was a factory bike with full factory support. i mean where were the repsol boys in 2000 ? nowhere !!.

im not taking anything away from rossi in his rookie year, he rode that 500 like a demon, but i think your being unfair towards kenny. you can not say kenny was not a challenge in 2000 because he won the championship..period ! also kenny has never had a good ride since, the 4 stroke suzuki was a bike with a mind of it's own and would spit the rider off for no reason at all then he went to work for his dad where he managed to show us some class on occasion even tho the bike was out classed by the rest of the field. your making out stoner is /was the only real challenge, why ? because he won the 07 championship. that 1 championship just like nicky in 06 and krjr in 2000.


Goood Lord, the world is surely ending! Armageddon folks, its coming. Wow, I read through this thread (that somehow has gone under my radar) and found a very interesting and almost unbelievably fair and balance position form the most unlikely defender of two former champs. Amazing!

I kept reading to find the cynical and ulterior motive in your reasoning but I could NOT find any. What the hell? Are you feeling ok my friend?

Maybe its your attempt to commiserate your former opinions toward a more accepting, kinder, and gentler opinion for the American champs so you don’t feel out of place when you grace us with your presence at Laguna this year, eh? No need buddy, we are a rather accepting bunch, you don’t need to defend Krjr & Nicky, we will still treat you like a racing enthusiast brother.


Laguna Seca 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 25 2008, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Goood Lord, the world is surely ending! Armageddon folks, its coming. Wow, I read through this thread (that somehow has gone under my radar) and found a very interesting and almost unbelievably fair and balance position form the most unlikely defender of two former champs. Amazing!

I kept reading to find the cynical and ulterior motive in your reasoning but I could NOT find any. What the hell? Are you feeling ok my friend?

Maybe its your attempt to commiserate your former opinions toward a more accepting, kinder, and gentler opinion for the American champs so you don’t feel out of place when you grace us with your presence at Laguna this year, eh? No need buddy, we are a rather accepting bunch, you don’t need to defend Krjr & Nicky, we will still treat you like a racing enthusiast brother.


Laguna Seca 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2008, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well your idea of "head to head " is very different to mine, but you love F1 so i understand
this is what i consider head to head, not hayden & rossi at valencia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIDsSmv2Jus...feature=related

I was there I was there I saw it all I was there

Hee hee....tell me your not jealous....hee hee hee

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 25 2008, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi's bike in 2000 was full HRC, he had the team that Doohan vacated (the best in the paddock) and it was less than half a season before the development of the NSR was focussed completely around his wishes. If anything not being in repsol colours is an example of the treatment he was already getting above that of normal factory riders, Rossi loves his one man teams.Oh so you think that one rider gettng all of the focus over the others in a team (or even lets say riding the same bike) could give them a clear advantage? A distinct gap between him & his teammates, that would actual flatter the riders abilities?

Interesting.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2008, 07:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>errm, i thought kenny had 4 wins and 4 seconds in 2000. he beat rossi by 49 pts. rossi had 3 dnf's and kenny had 1 so it was a pretty close season .

You're right about that. My mistake. The following year Rossi won 11 races (that's three more than krjr's total CAREER victories). In fact Rossi was won more races than krjr's career total in five different seasons. He has since been regarded as arguably one of the greatest riders of all time. Casey Stoner won 10 races last season alone (Rossi territory in terms of potential greatness) that's why he's regarded as a threat in my book. There's no need to add up Hayden's wins, even a leper probably still has enough fingers to count those!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reel Nauti @ Feb 26 2008, 08:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're right about that. My mistake. The following year Rossi won 11 races (that's three more than krjr's total CAREER victories). In fact Rossi was won more races than krjr's career total in five different seasons. He has since been regarded as arguably one of the greatest riders of all time. Casey Stoner won 10 races last season alone (Rossi territory in terms of potential greatness) that's why he's regarded as a threat in my book. There's no need to add up Hayden's wins, even a leper probably still has enough fingers to count those!!!
I am a stoner fan so I basically agree with you that stoner appears more likely to challenge rossi's status than nicky, but nicky may surprise you; another championship is not totally beyond him in my view. I really don't think casey is all that likely to win 5 championships even if he is as good as rossi which he probably isn't; he appears to have burnt his bridges with honda apart from anything else which would limit his future opportunities.

I do believe strongly that anyone who has won even one premier class world championship is worthy of enormous respect; krjr never really had great equipment and contended strongly in races as recently as 2006.

You seem like a real enthusiast and are very much entitled to your opinion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 26 2008, 09:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am a stoner fan so I basically agree with you that stoner appears more likely to challenge rossi's status than nicky, but nicky may surprise you; another championship is not totally beyond him in my view. I really don't think casey is all that likely to win 5 championships even if he is as good as rossi which he probably isn't; he appears to have burnt his bridges with honda apart from anything else which would limit his future opportunities.

I do believe strongly that anyone who has won even one premier class world championship is worthy of enormous respect; krjr never really had great equipment and contended strongly in races as recently as 2006.

You seem like a real enthusiast and are very much entitled to your opinion.

I agree with you on Nicky but he just hasn't been consistent season to season for him to convince me. When he won his championship he only really had Rossi to overcome after Melandri and Capirossi were injured. Now the list of potential champions is longer (Stoner, Rossi, Pedrosa and a few dark horses) the odds are against him. I would certainly rather see him win another instead of Pedrosa.

As for Casey, both he and Rossi have proved you don't need a Honda to win a championship. Besides that the Suzuki and Kawasaki are slowly getting there too. Casey is the real deal, mark my words.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Feb 26 2008, 01:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh so you think that one rider gettng all of the focus over the others in a team (or even lets say riding the same bike) could give them a clear advantage? A distinct gap between him & his teammates, that would actual flatter the riders abilities?

Interesting.

Absolutely, do you not agree? Look at Repsol Honda's disasters since mid 2006, i think that is a result of trying to treat two very different but similarly able riders equally. If either one of them was the undisputed team number one, or better yet in a one man team, i think things would have looked better.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2008, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well your idea of "head to head " is very different to mine, but you love F1 so i understand
this is what i consider head to head, not hayden & rossi at valencia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIDsSmv2Jus...feature=related

So if one rider is superior by a significant margin it is no longer head to head because??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 26 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So if one rider is superior by a significant margin it is no longer head to head because??
When one of the two protagonists for the alleged "head-to-head" falls off in the first few laps then that particular race cannot be classed as such (Valencia 06). Similarly races where one rider disappears into the distance on his own are not.

Races like Catalunya last year are head-to-head. If this distinction isn't made then all races are "head-to-head" with all riders, but all races do not have the excitement of a race-long battle for the top spot on the podium between two or more protagonists, hence the "head-to-head" phrase.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 26 2008, 10:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.... i think that is a result of trying to treat two very different but similarly able riders equally. If either one of them was the undisputed team number one, or better yet in a one man team, i think things would have looked better.

And the way they treated Pedrosa over Hayden (the world champ) in 2007 is supose to be evidence of this??? Hardly think that you can say this. Please, respsol honda didn't even use Hayden's win in advertising campains! It was like he didn't even exist.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 26 2008, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When one of the two protagonists for the alleged "head-to-head" falls off in the first few laps then that particular race cannot be classed as such (Valencia 06). Similarly races where one rider disappears into the distance on his own are not.

Races like Catalunya last year are head-to-head. If this distinction isn't made then all races are "head-to-head" with all riders, but all races do not have the excitement of a race-long battle for the top spot on the podium between two or more protagonists, hence the "head-to-head" phrase.

I think all races are a head to head between all riders, they are all on the same track dealing with the same conditions at the same time, The more exciting races are the ones where no rider has a large advantage, but i think having a large margin of superiority doesn't make the race any less head to head it just makes it a less competative head to head

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (citadina @ Feb 26 2008, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And the way they treated Pedrosa over Hayden (the world champ) in 2007 is supose to be evidence of this??? Hardly think that you can say this. Please, respsol honda didn't even use Hayden's win in advertising campains! It was like he didn't even exist.

Well i am yet to see any actual evidence of this unfair treatment, all we know for sure is that both riders are officially equal, they don't work in the same way, and the bikes development has suffered as a result.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 26 2008, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well i am yet to see any actual evidence of this unfair treatment, all we know for sure is that both riders are officially equal, they don't work in the same way, and the bikes development has suffered as a result.

I already replied to this on another thread. In any case, I sure that what you are looking for is someone to show you an internal memo from Repsol to Honda telling them to treat Pedrosa better. Of course you KNOW no one can come up with that. I guess that it's okay to speculate when your the one doing the speculating. Of course no one will find any hard evidence because all that stuff stays in house, what we can do is use our brains and capacity to reason to look for other kinds of evidence. In other posts you have done this, shouldn't be too hard to do it now.