Your input on Rossi's decline?

misfit said:

Even that influence isn't so strong anymore. Afterall, he had to stand aside for Fabio. Situations, influence, performance and circumstances do go hand in hand and evolve over time.

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Of course but it still took 11 seasons with no title for him to lose a factory ride while openly and publicly shitting on his employers. Sure he had a run of 2nd and 3rd places during those years but realistically other than 2015 there was next to 0% chance he was going to win the title. Now compare how long Rossi was able to do that.

Even with his ride at Petronas, up until the day it was signed the Petronas boss said he wanted to continue with young riders and develop them etc. The conversation is always when Rossi wants to retire, not so with other riders.

p4p1 said:

Of course but it still took 11 seasons with no title for him to lose a factory ride while openly and publicly shitting on his employers. Sure he had a run of 2nd and 3rd places during those years but realistically other than 2015 there was next to 0% chance he was going to win the title. Now compare how long Rossi was able to do that.

Even with his ride at Petronas, up until the day it was signed the Petronas boss said he wanted to continue with young riders and develop them etc. The conversation is always when Rossi wants to retire, not so with other riders.

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I can never understand all this 'playing the victim' on the part of fans when witnessing what happens within teams and with teammates around Rossi.

If Vinales allowed Rossi to get into his head, it says more about Vinales than Rossi. As for the teams, they are made up of big boys etc. They know what they're doing and why. Rossi is there on merit, otherwise he wouldn't be there. Whether it be performance, respect/regard (I know it hurts to contemplate that one), the positive publicity that comes with his presence or a combination of these and other factors. He's now with Petronas Yamaha. Let's see how he does which isn't great so far. If he doesn't do well this year, he will likely leave.

misfit said:

I can never understand all this 'playing the victim' on the part of fans when witnessing what happens within teams and with teammates around Rossi.

If Vinales allowed Rossi to get into his head, it says more about Vinales than Rossi. As for the teams, they are made up of big boys etc. They know what they're doing and why. Rossi is there on merit, otherwise he wouldn't be there. Whether it be performance, respect/regard (I know it hurts to contemplate that one), the positive publicity that comes with his presence or a combination of these and other factors. He's now with Petronas Yamaha. Let's see how he does which isn't great so far. If he doesn't do well this year, he will likely leave.

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I am over the Rossi stuff now, he can do whatever he likes; I think he will eventually be very influential in the sport post his retirement as a rider as a team owner/principal.

I formerly blamed an extreme element among Rossi’s fandom for the vilification of his rivals, but 2015 demonstrated he was orchestrating same. As you say a rider can use this as motivation as MM did, but he is one of the toughest .......s in the history of the sport. Casey Stoner was in the main fearless and indomitable on track, but a somewhat sensitive introvert off track, and if you read his autobiography and have read contemporaneous articles in the Australian motorbike press his vilification up to and including being spat at by Rossi fans for doing his job by riding rather well to beat Rossi in races and for titles soured him on the sport. I think he won the 2nd title in dominant fashion to prove a point then decided it wasn’t worth it going forward. I believe Biaggi’s, Gibernau’s and Lorenzo’s lives were also made miserable. We have had this discussion before, and this sort of behavior doesn’t seem to be very common among elite sportsmen, although I guess Ali did it it for one, a hurt Joe Frazier carried to his grave.

Otherwise Rossi has mainly had the advantages previous top riders such as Doohan have had in the sport and arguably earned by them. Some of the tire shenanigans have been a little suspect though imo, particularly the second rider tire vote which deprived Vinales of the tire on which he had ridden to the lead in the title race in favour of a tire of Rossi’s preference which Michelin had apparently continued to develop. I think even Dorna have recognised that was unfair and there is now a rule against mid season tire removal. I actually had no problem with him going to the Bridgestones but the gradual removal of a tire which suited the Ducati is another issue, although that was probably more down to Dorna than him.

misfit said:

I can never understand all this 'playing the victim' on the part of fans when witnessing what happens within teams and with teammates around Rossi.

If Vinales allowed Rossi to get into his head, it says more about Vinales than Rossi. As for the teams, they are made up of big boys etc. They know what they're doing and why. Rossi is there on merit, otherwise he wouldn't be there. Whether it be performance, respect/regard (I know it hurts to contemplate that one), the positive publicity that comes with his presence or a combination of these and other factors. He's now with Petronas Yamaha. Let's see how he does which isn't great so far. If he doesn't do well this year, he will likely leave.

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If what you say is correct and the somewhat erratic performance and lack of a championship are all basically down to Vinales himself being a bit of a head case, then the logical conclusion would be Yamaha have made a big mistake by keeping him and demoting Rossi. It should have been the other way round, or even out of Yamaha altogether and bring back Zarco as an option. Then again with Zarco we yet again see the familiar pattern when he complained Rossi was blocking him from a factory ride. And when it comes to Yamahas lack of championships that’s it in a nutshell. They don’t have the bike or luxury for all this, to win a championship what they really need is a team structure similar to Suzuki, with 2 riders who are at least pulling development in the same direction.

Vinales and Rossi have different riding styles, thus development at Yamaha has likely been a tug of war of late as they were clearly unwilling to follow 2 seperate paths. Having Crutchlow more or less validating development of the bike more towards the Vinales style is no real surprise, it was said a while ago moto2 graduates have different preferences to the old school 500cc guys. So deciding the battle in Vinales favour and having Rossi out of the team should give them a better chance of performing more consistently ala Suzuki. Only time will tell.

michaelm said:

Otherwise Rossi has mainly had the advantages previous top riders such as Doohan have had in the sport and arguably earned by them. Some of the tire shenanigans have been a little suspect though imo, particularly the second rider tire vote which deprived Vinales of the tire on which he had ridden to the lead in the title race in favour of a tire of Rossi’s preference which Michelin had apparently continued to develop. I think even Dorna have recognised that was unfair and there is now a rule against mid season tire removal. I actually had no problem with him going to the Bridgestones but the gradual removal of a tire which suited the Ducati is another issue, although that was probably more down to Dorna than him.

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I think this is it. 'Earned.... I don't think it's arguable'. You earn your way out of a ride by underperforming. If you do the opposite, your influence within a team grows and your teammate will be in trouble if not mentally tough and/or quick enough to challenge. In F1, Kimi is still driving, Alonso is back.... Vettel is still there and we know he'd be out on his arse long ago if not for his previous 4 championships.

birdman said:

If what you say is correct and the somewhat erratic performance and lack of a championship are all basically down to Vinales himself being a bit of a head case, then the logical conclusion would be Yamaha have made a big mistake by keeping him and demoting Rossi. It should have been the other way round, or even out of Yamaha altogether and bring back Zarco as an option. Then again with Zarco we yet again see the familiar pattern when he complained Rossi was blocking him from a factory ride. And when it comes to Yamahas lack of championships that’s it in a nutshell. They don’t have the bike or luxury for all this, to win a championship what they really need is a team structure similar to Suzuki, with 2 riders who are at least pulling development in the same direction.

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:nono: I had actually written 'IF'. I don't buy the 'Rossi in Vinales' head' as a reason for his erratic performance. I am saying that 'if' this were so, then it's a weakness in Vinales. As we know, mind games and mental toughness are a part of any highly competitive sport. Mental toughness is an important element to success especially consistent success.

birdman said:

Vinales and Rossi have different riding styles, thus development at Yamaha has likely been a tug of war of late as they were clearly unwilling to follow 2 seperate paths. Having Crutchlow more or less validating development of the bike more towards the Vinales style is no real surprise, it was said a while ago moto2 graduates have different preferences to the old school 500cc guys. So deciding the battle in Vinales favour and having Rossi out of the team should give them a better chance of performing more consistently ala Suzuki. Only time will tell.

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Vinales has made his statement about the likely cause for his upturn in performance and it sure makes a lot more sense than the Rossi conspiracies.

His frustration with the Yamaha and how to deal with it has evolved as he has openly commented over the last couple seasons. My understanding is that at first, he and his engineers tried to improve the bike to his liking, i.e., to right the weaknesses. When this didn't work, he then changed his tactic/focus, i.e., to concentrate on the bike's strengths and maximise on them. He then threw in another tactic... i.e., to give in to the bike, find out what the bike needed, and learn to ride it the way it needs to be ridden to go quickly. This final tactic is Stoner all over. He was fantastic. He rode bikes primarily the way they needed to be ridden. His talent and the way he developed as a rider gave him that mentality and approach.

Vinales has now added the problem with having to do parts testing on race weekend, rather than completely concentrating on his race preparations. With a trusting source as Crutchlow around, he can leave the testing to Crutchlow and concentrate on his race preparations. Make a huge amount of sense and I'm happy for him.

Rossi is never mentioned, but the Rossi haters will blame Rossi for everything of course.:wallbash:

misfit said:

I think this is it. 'Earned.... I don't think it's arguable'. You earn your way out of a ride by underperforming. If you do the opposite, your influence within a team grows and your teammate will be in trouble if not mentally tough and/or quick enough to challenge. In F1, Kimi is still driving, Alonso is back.... Vettel is still there and we know he'd be out on his arse long ago if not for his previous 4 championships.



:nono: I had actually written 'IF'. I don't buy the 'Rossi in Vinales' head' as a reason for his erratic performance. I am saying that 'if' this were so, then it's a weakness in Vinales. As we know, mind games and mental toughness are a part of any highly competitive sport. Mental toughness is an important element to success especially consistent success.



Vinales has made his statement about the likely cause for his upturn in performance and it sure makes a lot more sense than the Rossi conspiracies.

His frustration with the Yamaha and how to deal with it has evolved as he has openly commented over the last couple seasons. My understanding is that at first, he and his engineers tried to improve the bike to his liking, i.e., to right the weaknesses. When this didn't work, he then changed his tactic/focus, i.e., to concentrate on the bike's strengths and maximise on them. He then threw in another tactic... i.e., to give in to the bike, find out what the bike needed, and learn to ride it the way it needs to be ridden to go quickly. This final tactic is Stoner all over. He was fantastic. He rode bikes primarily the way they needed to be ridden. His talent and the way he developed as a rider gave him that mentality and approach.

Vinales has now added the problem with having to do parts testing on race weekend, rather than completely concentrating on his race preparations. With a trusting source as Crutchlow around, he can leave the testing to Crutchlow and concentrate on his race preparations. Make a huge amount of sense and I'm happy for him.

Rossi is never mentioned, but the Rossi haters will blame Rossi for everything of course.:wallbash:

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For sure if you wish to debate, we most certainly can. But if you must conclude posts with the conclusion my opinion is only based on being a Rossi hater, then what’s the point? Im seeking objective debate rather than subjective.

Forget whether or not I ‘hate’ Rossi. This isn’t mean girls.

Vinales can ride the bike on exactly Crutchlows settings. This is important to note. Crutchlow has never competed on a 250cc GP two stroke. He’s a SBK graduate, and Vinales is a moto2 graduate. In both cases the bike is more effectively stopped by using rear brake, to lessen the load on the front, by skidding the bike sideways. This is most relevant factor in terms of Yamaha’s development direction. Whether or not Rossi accepts this is the best way, I have no definitely proof but from comments he has made at times he declared it ‘not a Yamaha’ so I can only assume that meant it was best developed wheels on in line like a 250cc GP bike rather than a moto2.

Now, if he could convince Yamaha he knows best, and that Vinales doesn’t know, he’s confused, hasn’t won 9, would he do that? Of coarse he would. What exactly would Vinales do in such a situation? Not much, he really does need the likes of Crutchlow to validate this is the best direction for Yamaha to take, and thankfully he has that.

Now let’s hope he can keep it going. Because at some point Marquez is coming, and I for one really want to see someone take it to Marquez in real competition for championships for a long time to come.

birdman said:

For sure if you wish to debate, we most certainly can. But if you must conclude posts with the conclusion my opinion is only based on being a Rossi hater, then what’s the point? Im seeking objective debate rather than subjective.

Forget whether or not I ‘hate’ Rossi. This isn’t mean girls.

Vinales can ride the bike on exactly Crutchlows settings. This is important to note. Crutchlow has never competed on a 250cc GP two stroke. He’s a SBK graduate, and Vinales is a moto2 graduate. In both cases the bike is more effectively stopped by using rear brake, to lessen the load on the front, by skidding the bike sideways. This is most relevant factor in terms of Yamaha’s development direction. Whether or not Rossi accepts this is the best way, I have no definitely proof but from comments he has made at times he declared it ‘not a Yamaha’ so I can only assume that meant it was best developed wheels on in line like a 250cc GP bike rather than a moto2.

Now, if he could convince Yamaha he knows best, and that Vinales doesn’t know, he’s confused, hasn’t won 9, would he do that? Of coarse he would. What exactly would Vinales do in such a situation? Not much, he really does need the likes of Crutchlow to validate this is the best direction for Yamaha to take, and thankfully he has that.

Now let’s hope he can keep it going. Because at some point Marquez is coming, and I for one really want to see someone take it to Marquez in real competition for championships for a long time to come.

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I guess Valentino is the last guy out there with Dovi not riding this year to have competed in the 250 class, let alone on a 500.

JPSLotus said:

I don't think Rossi is worthy of revered status.

The manner which he conducted himself in and thought was acceptable, back in 2015 ensured I would never have any real respect for him as a rider and person ever again.

He basically pulled a ..... before ..... started doing it on a national/global scale. Rossi advanced an unproven conspiracy theory regarding the Phillip Island race that year, which had the result of inviting what amounted to an insurrection against Marc Marquez. As you'll recall, security was needed for Marc as well as his family because the Rossi fans who were behaving just like the Trumptards, wanted to go after Marquez for what he supposedly did to Rossi.

I think if those events unfolded in 2020 rather than 2015, given the nature of how the world is now, Rossi may in fact have been given a season long ban, or even a permanent ban for what he did. Rossi stirred up his fanbase through rhetoric and conspiracy then, and even in prior years because he knew his fanbase was more akin to a cult than just a group of passionate fans.

While yes his accomplishments prior to 2010 were impressive, and actually were something of note (something that ..... never managed to do) Rossi is an amoral piece of .... at the end of the day. He has never admitted to wrongdoing, or that he incited his fanbase constantly with his .........

To your other point, he got old. Something his fanbase still cannot accept.

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i agree rossi got old and the competition got better. rossi and his fans are not equivalent to ..... supporters but equivalent to your libtard that believes something that has failed over and over everywhere it was tried will all of a sudden get better. if you dont agree with them you must be cancelled at all costs cant have a better competitor or better way of life. liberalism is a disease and ..... like Regan is the cure. the valeban is a disease MM is the cure.

ps there was no insurrection on jan 6 stop the nonsense and lose the fake news. keep it gp

misfit said:

Even that influence isn't so strong anymore. Afterall, he had to stand aside for Fabio. Situations, influence, performance and circumstances do go hand in hand and evolve over time.

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The question of his outsized influence and how it unnaturally skewed things in MotoGP was at the center of many heated debates over the last 15 years. It has, along with his popularity and his ability to be truly competitive has of course diminished. Mentions of it on the present day forum are just shadows of the endless argy-bargy that often deteriorated into endless flame wars that attracted a seemingly endless clown parade of loonies and Rossi trolls. There are still a few that pop in from time to time in hopes of igniting the same old nonsense. They virtually never talk about racing. It’s all about popping in for a short round of ad hominem attacks and insults, and then they fade into the shadows like so many maggots feeding off a dead horse.

mark419ny said:

liberalism is a disease and ..... like Regan is the cure...

ps there was no insurrection on jan 6 stop the nonsense and lose the fake news. keep it gp

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A bonified QAnon supporter, didn't think you looney tunes were allowed to post on the Internet because it's all part of the big information/media conspiracy?? And yet, here you are exercising your "liberalism" by posting ... you do sound confused, a little too much Meth/Crack from your "conservative" buddy Mike Lindell? Can I borrow you Viking helmet to shield me from those Jewish Space Lasers and baby eating Democrats.

I'm surprised Dorna Sports, S.L. hasn't visited the owner of this site for MotoGP trademark infringements.

But hey, I'm glad this site is "liberal" enough to let you voice your gibberish.

Funny how the same people who say he should retire will say 'the old man can still race' when he gets them podiums this season lol.

imunderandoverit said:

Funny how the same people who say he should retire will say 'the old man can still race' when he gets them podiums this season lol.

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Believe that enough to put money on it? I mean playing poker is more fun, but I love easy money betting.

If Valentino is not going to be competitive he should retire gracefully...


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Agree, Rossi should retire, pretty sure he's lost the "fun aspect" and is doing this to have funding for his VR46 MotoGP team (as owner, not rider) next year that's likely to be based around Ducati equipment.

Rossi has been plenty graceful, he's put far more money into MotoGP (VR46 Academy) than any other rider in the history of MotoGP. And VR46 academy is producing some extremely talented riders.

In my opinion MotoGP as a sport would have been a big winner if Rossi was properly prosecuted after Sepang 2015. Honda should have filed charges on behalf of Marc at local DA office, this was deliberate murder attempt. Pushing fellow hiker deliberately over cliff or forcing high speed crash at racetrack, both are the same felony. Of course, Marc survived and Honda did not want to alienate potential buyers wearing yellow shirts. Rossi rotting in jail would have made this sport much cleaner.

Segfault said:

In my opinion MotoGP as a sport would have been a big winner if Rossi was properly prosecuted after Sepang 2015. Honda should have filed charges on behalf of Marc at local DA office, this was deliberate murder attempt. Pushing fellow hiker deliberately over cliff or forcing high speed crash at racetrack, both are the same felony. Of course, Marc survived and Honda did not want to alienate potential buyers wearing yellow shirts. Rossi rotting in jail would have made this sport much cleaner.

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YouTube link ??


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Segfault said:

In my opinion MotoGP as a sport would have been a big winner if Rossi was properly prosecuted after Sepang 2015. Honda should have filed charges on behalf of Marc at local DA office, this was deliberate murder attempt. Pushing fellow hiker deliberately over cliff or forcing high speed crash at racetrack, both are the same felony. Of course, Marc survived and Honda did not want to alienate potential buyers wearing yellow shirts. Rossi rotting in jail would have made this sport much cleaner.

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By that logic the Sepang 2015 incident would've never happened because Marc would've already been in jail in 2011 after his attempted murder of Ratthapark Wilairot

Segfault said:

In my opinion MotoGP as a sport would have been a big winner if Rossi was properly prosecuted after Sepang 2015. Honda should have filed charges on behalf of Marc at local DA office, this was deliberate murder attempt. Pushing fellow hiker deliberately over cliff or forcing high speed crash at racetrack, both are the same felony. Of course, Marc survived and Honda did not want to alienate potential buyers wearing yellow shirts. Rossi rotting in jail would have made this sport much cleaner.

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moto vudu said:

By that logic the Sepang 2015 incident would've never happened because Marc would've already been in jail in 2011 after his attempted murder of Ratthapark Wilairot

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It would have been manslaughter, but both he and his crew should have been banned for a year.

Rossi is no longer a factor to be considered for race wins, podium position or title contention.
His decline is effectively complete enough that he can be disregarded by those interested in the competitive aspect of the sport.
Time to move on, even if he won't is my opinion.