If he wants to keep riding for pleasure then there's plenty of other series around the world for him to do that, ones that he'd be more competitive in as well.
The difference between motor racing and other sports is that there is only so many places available in motor racing. Federer for instance isn't competing at anyone's expense. When the younger guys are good enough to beat him, they will and do. If he is not good enough to qualify for opens then he won't, though I suspect he would be given wildcards as often as required. In Rossi's case the young guys either don't have the opportunity to beat him due to lack of rides or the equipment to beat him. It's not just Rossi who is in that position, I'm sure there is other guys in the premier class who realistically aren't in the top 20-25 fastest riders on the planet.
The one mark against motorsport for me is it isn't always a sport of merit, but often who you know, who you are, how much money you can bring to the table etc. I'm a Marquez fan as most on here know but if he comes back from his arm and can't consistently be in the top 5 then he doesn't deserve his ride but because of the contract he signed he will be on a factory bike for another 3 years regardless of next years outcome. That's not fair for the sport, not that injuries are necessarily fair either.
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I may be wrong, but I can't see MM hanging around for years with no chance of winning. It would be reasonable imo to give it at least a year after such an injury saga though, Mick Doohan required a recovery season before winning 5 on the bounce.
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Joined May 2019
607 Posts | 459+
Where I am.
I see what you're saying, but you describe a situation that has existed, and that will continue to exist within the sport and in any competitive aspect of life actually. Rossi does not unilaterally decide where, and if, he continues to rides in MotoGP. His pedigree and achievements do provide him undeniable leverage, but his achievements, are his and they count for something. It's for him to use and he deserves this. His relative performance in race conditions hasn't been that bad either and he is clearly keeping an eye on this, hence his single year contracts.
The younger riders aren't there to beat Rossi. They have their own careers to build, now that they've made it to the premiere class. They have an entire grid of excellent riders to take on. Finally, the VR46 team, owned by Ross as far as I'm aware, has joined the premiere class and will field two young riders. His contribution to a viable grid and the sport continues.
Here we have a 9 times World Champion still riding at age 42, in a rigorous and highly competitive sport. He will be continuing to do so while fielding his own race team. Quite the spectacle from where I sit and makes for a great story.... for some, and I know.... oh how I know, that some cannot stand it, but OK... I know.. it's not for everyone. :ninja:
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I have to say it is hard to argue now he was holding up Vinales after Vinales was reputedly given the keys to the factory team last year, or that the other younger Yamaha riders are consistent enough to be world beaters/clearly much better than him either. From the interview excerpts I saw it didn't appear that Petronas Yamaha necessarily had him in their plans all along/were entirely pleased with him joining their team for the coming season though.
I am that rare phenomenon, a fan of Jorge Lorenzo (a 5 times world champion himself) however, and consider him to have been screwed over, probably to Yamaha's overall detriment.
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Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Madonna, when she was young, had a really nice rack. Great to see att, even though she couldn’t really sing for ...., who cared? Not me.
Now though? What’s that Homer Simpson thing where he shudders ewww. Time to move on maybe. I’m sure she still has her fans though.
Sorry, what were you saying?
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Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Perhaps a little harsh. However as opposed to Roger Federer getting a wild card which is extremely unlikely to displace an actual contender, in motogp with the number of slots available Valentino just might. Casey Stoner really pretty much fluked that ride for Ducati on a bike which was perhaps uniquely suited to him and competitive in his hands. Imo he could have languished as “Crashy” Stoner over riding satellite bikes and had a Bautista-like career without that opportunity.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
So fine. Let Rossi have some wildcards. Stoner's move I suspect was a relatively pragmatic decision on the part of Ducati who weren't having huge success at the time. There weren't a whole lot of other unsigned riders, and Stoner had achieved quite a lot in the lower classes prior to his rookie year. Has to have been more than a few people in MotoGP scouting new talent capable of discerning Stoner's potential. And as has been pointed out ad nauseum, it wasn't so much the bike as custom engineered Bridgestones that gave him his edge.
Joined Aug 2013
902 Posts | 509+
USA
Did Rossi decline, or or has the rest of the field caught up and with him?
I think age has a little something to do with it, also after so much initial success his focus has broaden to a wider range of endeavors. a 20 year old rider only has to focus on riding, while a 30 year old usually has family, business investments, and other things to focus on.
MotoGP racing is also very different then it was 10-15 years ago... It was a two team race between factory Honda and factory Yamaha, the rest of the field was in a different universe.
I think age has a little something to do with it, also after so much initial success his focus has broaden to a wider range of endeavors. a 20 year old rider only has to focus on riding, while a 30 year old usually has family, business investments, and other things to focus on.
MotoGP racing is also very different then it was 10-15 years ago... It was a two team race between factory Honda and factory Yamaha, the rest of the field was in a different universe.
He was signed as a 1 year rental because Marco Melandri had to serve out the remaining year of his existing contract. When Stoner performed so well for them they basically had to sack Loris Capirossi to keep him with Melandri joining. Sure the Bridgestones were likely what made the thing rideable at all, but to quote Presiozi about the title win “that was Casey”. Marco Melandri didn’t seem to consider the Bridgestones much of an advantage coming from a Michelin shod Honda either.
I am sure the narrow second place finish and the pole position on the LCR Honda attracted some notice and were why Ducati signed him, but my point was that he pretty much fluked a ride in a year when the Ducati on the Bridgestones was good enough to win. He was still called “Crashey” with some justice after his rookie season, and I doubt he would have gotten a factory Honda or Yamaha ride which was mostly what was needed back then; he himself said he wasn’t being given competitive/top spec tyres riding the LCR Honda.
I guess Dorna have succeeded in at least increasing the number of competitive bikes now, but riding a factory Yamaha for Petronas is still a fairly plum ride, with FQ pretty much the favourite to win the title in that situation early season last season.
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He was signed as a 1 year rental because Marco Melandri had to serve out the remaining year of his existing contract. When Stoner performed so well for them they basically had to sack Loris Capirossi to keep Stoner with Melandri joining. Sure the Bridgestones were likely what made the thing rideable at all, but to quote Presiozi about the title win “that was Casey”.
I am sure the second place finish and the pole position on the LCR Honda attracted some notice and was why Ducati signed him, but my point was that he pretty much fluked a ride in a year when the Ducati on the Bridgestones was good enough to win. He was still called “Crashey” with some justice though, and I doubt he would have gotten a factory Honda or Yamaha ride which was mostly what was needed back then, and he himself said he wasn’t being given competitive/top spec tyres riding the LCR Honda.
I guess Dorna have succeeded in increasing the number of competitive bikes now, but riding a factory Yamaha for Petronas is still a fairly plum ride, with FQ pretty much the favourite to win the title in that situation early season last season.
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Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Of course they are there for their own careers. My point was if seats are given based on merit younger guys have not had the opportunity to show they deserve the seat over Rossi because they don’t get the opportunity to be on the same or similar equipment.
As far as VR46 goes IIRC they will only have one bike on the grid ridden by Rossi’s brother, the cost of which came at the expense of the moto3 team. While I don’t have a problem with it, last year when Alex was given the Repsol ride there where screams of nepotism, which didn’t come at the cost of young riders in moto3. Rossi is free to do whatever he wants with his money but the latest decision does show the opposite to what Rossi fans have been crowing about.
I don’t care that he is still riding, my issue is that he is taking a factory bike off of a rider whom likely deserves it more at this stage. If Rossi wanted to be on a 3rd string Ducati and team up with his brother or fund his own factory Yamaha that isn’t at the cost of a more deserving rider then I am all for it. Tbh I would be somewhat surprised if he doesn’t end up at VR46 next year with his brother, it’s a marketing dream especially if Suzuki is shopping for a satellite team as is being reported.
I think it’s likely Vinales just wasn’t as good as people wanted him to be. He was heralded as the antidote to the Rossi conquering Lorenzo and Marquez but was never as good as either. Vinales’ results at Suzuki weren’t all that different to his results at Yamaha consistency wise, the Suzuki was likely a better bike than we gave it credit for.
I still think it’s both. His record even during what we’re still his physical prime years on control tyres is telling IMO. The field is more competitive than ever now though. Plenty of Motorsport guys have been successful in their late 30s and early 40s. Tom Brady just won a super bowl at 43. Rossi certainly isn’t in his prime but I don’t think his age has pushed him so far over the other side of the hill it’s the only reason why he isn’t winning.
Stoner was who I had in my mind when I wrote my original post. He was obviously noticed given that Yamaha were courting him before Rossi vetoed the idea but Honda had already put all their eggs in the Pedrosa basket, Ducati were set on an all Italian world championship, IIRC Stoner said in his book he wasn’t even 1st choice for the Ducati 1 year contract. He may have ended up with the Repsol ride instead of Dovi if he hadn’t gone to Ducati but by the end of 2008 after riding mismatched tyres etc he may have been written off totally.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I only mentioned the Bridgestones specifically because his Crashy nickname was bestowed by Rossi fanboys, in a year when he had no option to choose his own tires. The fanboys weren't aware of this scenario, but serious industry people who were trackside at every race . . . they had to have been aware and it's not unreasonable to think, saw how the rookie kid rode in spite of being hobbled with ..... tires. He came in 8th that year. Riders 1st through 5th were all much more experienced and on full factory bikes. 6th was Roberts Jr a one time world champion, and Edwards a two-times WSBK champion - both with much greater familiarity with all the circuits. Also - I believe there was at the time a greater disparity between full factory and customer bikes - especially as this was prior to the introduction of one-size-fits-all electronics. I don't meant to suggest the tires won the races - but they were certainly a big contributing factor re: making the bike "relatively" rideable for Stoner. Obviously Rossi thought the B-Stones were a big factor as well.
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Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
All coincidence really, no one in their right mind predicted Stoner/Ducati/BS championship winners in 07. They were all also rans. Att Pedrosa was the chosen one to Rossi’s clown. It did change the Motogp landscape though, and I still celebrate that as a huge achievement.
Stoner was nothing more than a big pain in the ... for Dorna, viewer ratings went down big time every time he won a race over Rossi.
2012 was even worse, no wonder he quit, good on him, no use risking life and limb for the Donald ..... of motogp.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Not to be pedantic, but I never implied Ducati had in their wildest dreams predicting a championship. My point was simply that they saw potential. The field of available candidates for that seat was limited, and candidates with better track records still more limited. Ducati surely didn't care about Dorna rating in the wake of Stoner's wins.
As to his quitting: Agreed. Pearls before swine. Tho what with his machinations to fabricate artificial scenarios leading to more wins for Rossi for the sake of ratings, I tend to think of Carmine as the Vince MacMahon of racing.
OTOH - the whole soap opera made for some really fun discussions on this forum.
