Primacy Motoraad GP Deutschland Predictions & Race

McZee · Jul 17, 2018

michaelm said:
It’s Marc. They have hired Jorge in the hope of him developing a bike other riders can ride/satellite teams won’t run away from, with the rather happy corollary effect for them that he won’t be riding a Yamaha.

I can't remember if this has been discussed before, but what's the general consensus on Honda's development plans for next year?
Will they go down 2 routes, one for Marc and one for Horhay (and the satellite teams). Or will they just stick with a bike that Horhay likes and is easier to ride, then give it to Marc and say "Here you go, son. You don't have to risk crashing all the time to win races now."

michaelm · Jul 17, 2018

McZee said:
I can't remember if this has been discussed before, but what's the general consensus on Honda's development plans for next year?
Will they go down 2 routes, one for Marc and one for Horhay (and the satellite teams). Or will they just stick with a bike that Horhay likes and is easier to ride, then give it to Marc and say "Here you go, son. You don't have to risk crashing all the time to win races now."

I believe there have been fairly strong indications they are willing to undertake 2 different development directions simultaneously. Whether they will carry through who knows, but Honda have been more devoted to their bike winning rather than it being all about the rider, and also may not be confident Marc is a career Honda man.

Little Walter · Jul 17, 2018

McZee said:
100% agreed, Barry. 2019 will tell us if it is Marc or the Honda. At the moment I get the vibe that there are 2 main schools of thought.
1. The Honda is much improved and the best bike on the grid.
2. The Honda is still a dog and it's just Marc's skill.

Well next year we'll find out I guess.
I know that it's indicative of the modern 'I want everything now' society that we live in, but I really want the 19 season to come around as soon as possible.

Seems to be the dynamic whenever a super-dominant rider is running away with the championship. I feel the same way, though, am holding out hope that possibly there will be one more race this year as good as Assen. That and I'd love to see Lorenzo pick the right rubber and win one more for Ducati.

Little Walter · Jul 17, 2018

McZee said:
I can't remember if this has been discussed before, but what's the general consensus on Honda's development plans for next year?
Will they go down 2 routes, one for Marc and one for Horhay (and the satellite teams). Or will they just stick with a bike that Horhay likes and is easier to ride, then give it to Marc and say "Here you go, son. You don't have to risk crashing all the time to win races now."

Mayhaps the two paths are really only one. If HRC develop a more user friendly bike it would not be detrimental to Marquez; perhaps said path will make him even more competitive. Scary thought. With MM being still young and injury free, HRC engineers won't be taking on any new direction. As has been said many times, HRC is always more about the bike than the rider. It was a thing Freddie Spencer talked about openly and was evident when they ignored Nicky and created the Pedrocycle, when they created the hated 800cc class, when they dumped Dovi, who was going from strength to strength, when they ignored much of Stoner's input and alienated him on many levels. HRC will put all their eggs in one basket, same has Yamaha have done with Rossi. Marquez's next contract negotiation is going to be a ..... if Yamaha or Ducati make an offer. It's not inconcevable that he might jump ship just to show the world he can win on multiple brands like Lawson and Rossi.

McZee · Jul 17, 2018

Little Walter said:
am holding out hope that possibly there will be one more race this year as good as Assen.

Well if 2017 is anything to go by, then Phillip Island could be the place. Another one of those and I will be a happy man. I reckon it was as good as, if not better than Assen this year.

Holypuck · Jul 17, 2018

michaelm said:
It’s Marc. They have hired Jorge in the hope of him developing a bike other riders can ride/satellite teams won’t run away from, with the rather happy corollary effect for them that he won’t be riding a Yamaha.

Not at all.

They have hired Jorge cause he had a discussion/fight with Domenicali literally 5 days before he signed with Honda, which caused him to decide to leave Ducati, he so offered himself to Honda who proposed a 4mln/year contract (a very cheap price for a rider like Lorenzo) and he accepted.

It all happened very fastly and very randomly, Honda never looked for Lorenzo before. They tried to hire (in this order) Zarco, Dovi and Miller. But not Jorge.

michaelm · Jul 17, 2018

Holypuck said:
Not at all.

They have hired Jorge cause he had a discussion/fight with Domenicali literally 5 days before he signed with Honda, which caused him to decide to leave Ducati, he so offered himself to Honda who proposed a 4mln/year contract (a very cheap price for a rider like Lorenzo) and he accepted.

It all happened very fastly and very randomly, Honda never looked for Lorenzo before. They tried to hire (in this order) Zarco, Dovi and Miller. But not Jorge.

I said him not being on a Yamaha was a welcome side benefit. Cal Crutchlow said the same thing.

I am doubtless less well informed than you are, but from what I have read, sure, he did approach HRC and offered to take a substantial discount in comparison with his pre-Ducati days.

BarryMachine · Jul 17, 2018

McZee said:
Well if 2017 is anything to go by, then Phillip Island could be the place. Another one of those and I will be a happy man. I reckon it was as good as, if not better than Assen this year.

Now thats a good point ........ PI. Would love that to be another win on the Duc.

Something to look forward to for this season!

Wish theyd bring back Laguna ..... that was also a high point in the season.

cucoloco · Jul 17, 2018

Iamapony said:
Libby didn't do .... to me. However, by liking a thread where a low-life AGAIN uses the word "...." to describe a racer, she negates the effort to try to civilize this place and society in general. The fact that so many don't get that, and that SHE is less willing to defend women than me, is rather astounding, don't you think? Or is everyone confused by her hypocrisy of liking Lorenzo, who has also been called a "...." by Rossi fans, but then likes where someone calls Marquez a "....". Confuses the .... out of me. But, I may pay more attention to things than most, especially around here.

No, only confused about your chicken-.... problem you have with the word '....' all of a sudden. From day one this place was full of ...., ......., .... this and .... when talking about riders or when addressing a poster one doesn't like or as a banter and I have yet to hear or see anybody really cry about it. But now, for no good reason, you criticize and insult Libby who only liked 'synn' comment. Libby is a good girl and grown up girl, if she couldn't take the language in this forum she would have never joined and stayed so she obviously is not as narrow minded as you and is fully aware of what is going on in this forum.

Why don't you stop being one of those whiny leftist little ..... who is insulted for others when the others don't give a .... or have a different opinion? You are so concerned about protecting Libby from the word '....' that wasn't addressed to her that you insult her? Yeah, very common thing to do in our society lately.

Holypuck · Jul 17, 2018

michaelm said:
I said him not being on a Yamaha was a welcome side benefit. Cal Crutchlow said the same thing.

I am doubtless less well informed than you are, but from what I have read, sure, he did approach HRC and offered to take a substantial discount in comparison with his pre-Ducati days.

Obviosuly I am not trying to play the guy that knows everything.

I only wanted to underline that from Honda's side there's never really been any kind of strategy behind hiring Lorenzo, it just happened.

Which, if you ask me, did not make Marquez too happy, but that's another topic ...

McZee · Jul 17, 2018

Holypuck said:
.

Which, if you ask me, did not make Marquez too happy, but that's another topic ...

Do you think Marc was unhappy from a lack of consultation perspective?
I think that a guy like Marc with such an unparalleled will to win would probably not be bothered by Horhay coming on board.
Having said that, we never know what others are thinking. It's easy to be under the impression that because of the moves Marc pulls on the track he's not worried about the championship, but in an interview at the end of last season, he admitted to loosing hair at the start of the 17 season through worry.

Holypuck · Jul 17, 2018

McZee said:
Do you think Marc was unhappy from a lack of consultation perspective?
I think that a guy like Marc with such an unparalleled will to win would probably not be bothered by Horhay coming on board.
Having said that, we never know what others are thinking. It's easy to be under the impression that because of the moves Marc pulls on the track he's not worried about the championship, but in an interview at the end of last season, he admitted to loosing hair at the start of the 17 season through worry.

No, I simply think Marc felt like Honda is not "focused" only on him, as it might have appeared...riders egos are insanely big, they need to think in a completely different way in order to be competitive.

That being said, I agree with you as I think it won't be a big problem for Marc. He is human so he has his worries, but he'll keep winning. A lot.

McZee · Jul 17, 2018

Holypuck said:
No, I simply think Marc felt like Honda is not "focused" only on him, as it might have appeared...riders egos are insanely big, they need to think in a completely different way in order to be competitive.

That being said, I agree with you as I think it won't be a big problem for Marc. He is human so he has his worries, but he'll keep winning. A lot.

Do you think it could be enough to eventually make him think about moving manufacturers (possibly after his this contract), or do you think he'll try to supersede Vale in titles before jumping ship, (if he ever does leave Honda that is)?

michaelm · Jul 17, 2018

Holypuck said:
Obviosuly I am not trying to play the guy that knows everything.

I only wanted to underline that from Honda's side there's never really been any kind of strategy behind hiring Lorenzo, it just happened.

Which, if you ask me, did not make Marquez too happy, but that's another topic ...

I wasn’t intending sarcasm, I am genuinely sure you are better informed than I am, particularly in regard to what may have happened at Ducati with Domenicali etc.

Hard to know what went on at Honda, it has been reported Puig wanted Dani gone, it seems they did pursue Zarco and Dovi as you say, but Jack said they didn’t approach him. I am sure you are correct they had no strategy to approach Jorge, but they may not have considered him available particularly at a cheapish salary before the Domenicali blow-up, the decamping of tech 3 to KTM and the mooted new Yamaha satellite team with him in the frame for it all happened close together. The fact that Zarco and possibly others didn’t want an HRC factory seat may have given them some cause for reflection as well. I am pretty sure HRC have said they are prepared to back more than 1 line of development.

Holypuck · Jul 17, 2018

McZee said:
Do you think it could be enough to eventually make him think about moving manufacturers (possibly after his this contract), or do you think he'll try to supersede Vale in titles before jumping ship, (if he ever does leave Honda that is)?

Marc does not seem to give a heck about the challenge of winning with a different manufacturer, nor about money...he only cares about having a competitive bike.

I hence reckon he will stay on a Honda as long as he'll think it's the best bike for him, but these are only my 2 cents.

p4p1 · Jul 17, 2018

It would make sense for HRC to go two routes IMO. They can keep Marquez happy and competitive and then advances that they make on the other development path can be tested by Marquez and he may love them. He will no doubt love a bike that's easier to ride.

Holypuck · Jul 17, 2018

michaelm said:
I wasn’t intending sarcasm, I am genuinely sure you are better informed than I am, particularly in regard to what may have happened at Ducati with Domenicsli etc.

Hard to know what went on at Honda, it has been reported Puig wanted Dani gone, it seems they did pursue Zarco and Dovi as you say, but Jack said they didn’t approach him. I am sure you are correct they had no strategy to approach Jorge, but they may not have considered him available particularly at a cheapish salary before the Donenicali blow-up, the decamping of tech 3 to KTM and the mooted new Yamaha satellite team with him in the frame for it all happened close together. The fact that Zarco and possibly others didn’t want an HRC factory seat may have given them some cause for reflection as well. I am pretty sure HRC have said they are prepared to back more than 1 line of development.

I know mate the specification I made was only to make clear that I wasn't being a know-it-all

Puig 100% wanted Dani gone as you say. It's hard to figure what went on at Honda, even for people who work in the paddock, and I quite frankly have no idea of who would have got that seat if Jorge would have stayed on the Duc...

Holypuck · Jul 17, 2018

p4p1 said:
It would make sense for HRC to go two routes IMO. They can keep Marquez happy and competitive and then advances that they make on the other development path can be tested by Marquez and he may love them. He will no doubt love a bike that's easier to ride.

I 100% agree.

Also cause HRC is the only team that has the structure, the money and the people to be able to follow two different routes of development.

Keshav · Jul 17, 2018

BarryMachine said:
Now thats a good point ........ PI. Would love that to be another win on the Duc.

Something to look forward to for this season!

Wish theyd bring back Laguna ..... that was also a high point in the season.

Yes to Laguna. Makes for great racing and a great tracks well for spectating as the best parts are easily accessible.

I really wanted to go to PI this year, but can't deal with the 24 hour flight. I'm going to try and make a plan go somewhere in the 12 hour range, stay for a bit and then go to Australia. I've actually looked up on google maps how far you and some others are from the track. 10 hour for you I believe. PI and Donnington are the two still on my bucket list.

Keshav · Jul 17, 2018

cucoloco said:
No, only confused about your chicken-.... problem you have with the word '....' all of a sudden. From day one this place was full of ...., ......., .... this and .... when talking about riders or when addressing a poster one doesn't like or as a banter and I have yet to hear or see anybody really cry about it. But now, for no good reason, you criticize and insult Libby who only liked 'synn' comment. Libby is a good girl and grown up girl, if she couldn't take the language in this forum she would have never joined and stayed so she obviously is not as narrow minded as you and is fully aware of what is going on in this forum.

Why don't you stop being one of those whiny leftist little ..... who is insulted for others when the others don't give a .... or have a different opinion? You are so concerned about protecting Libby from the word '....' that wasn't addressed to her that you insult her? Yeah, very common thing to do in our society lately.

I consider myself super left, progressive blah blah blah, but am tired of people who pretend to woke superconsciousness as a platform for purposes of just plain stirring up .....

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