Predict Marquez's place in the GP standings at the end of next season

Tom said:

That is highly debatable, especially in the context of the comparison you are making. I don't agree at all

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Moto2 MGP and 250s are high corner speed bikes 500s were not,a moto2 beat 500 lap times this year with a lot less power and more weight with its high corner speed,and 500s had none of the advanced electronics a MGP bike has.I will take Kenny seniors word for it over yours.Kozinski is trying to make it go round corners like a 250 and it cant. Now in Moto gp it is the 250/moto2 boys who dominate as it never used to be like that.



Biaggi 4x250 wc 4x500 wins

Garriga 3x250 wins 0x500 wins

Pons 15x250 wins 0x500 wins

Kozinski 1x250 wc 4x500 wins

Jacques 1x250 wc 0x500 wins

Cappirossi 1x250 wc 4x500 wins

Harada 1x250 wc 0x500 wins



All the above great 250 riders (and there are more) struggled with point and squirt 500s but the giants of the 500 era came from point and squirt superbikes.



Doohan 4x500 wc

Rainey 3x500 wc

Gardener 1x500 wc

Schwantz 1x500 wc

Roberts jnr rode in 250 f0r 2 yesrs with no wins but 1x500wc

In the 500 era the only guy to realy jump from 250 to 500 was Rossi and he is the exeption to the rule.



This is why i think MM will be very quick from the off and win early in the season.

thedeal said:

Moto2 MGP and 250s are high corner speed bikes 500s were not,a moto2 beat 500 lap times this year with a lot less power and more weight with its high corner speed,and 500s had none of the advanced electronics a MGP bike has.I will take Kenny seniors word for it over yours.Kozinski is trying to make it go round corners like a 250 and it cant. Now in Moto gp it is the 250/moto2 boys who dominate as it never used to be like that.

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Have you go a link? I'd be interested to have a read and see KRSR's explanation.



The thing about moto2 is that they have a control ECU with no rider aids, which restricts one of the most challenging aspects of being a motogp rider... Dealing with the electronics. On top of that moto2 bikes have a lot of engine breaking and clearly struggle to get into corners smoothly, while a motogp bike is setup to enter corners nearly perfectly, so one of the main riding challenges of moto2 does not transfer particularly well to motogp. On top of that you have carbon brakes and the new Bridgestone tyres. I recall seeing an interview with Andrea Doviziozo in the last year where he said nearly exactly this.



You made the comparison to Max Biaggi's transition to motogp from 250, but his 250 had carbon brakes, the difference in the tyres was almost certainly less significant than it is today, it was towards the end of the 90's when the front tyre/chassis technology was allowing smoother and more corner speed focussed riders to find success on the bigger bikes, plus the rules had just banned leaded fuel and taken the absolute edge off of the 500s power delivery.



Interestingly, rookie of the year tended to finish higher in the championship in the 90's than in the 4 stroke motogp era

I think next season will end.

1st Lorenzo

2nd Rossi

3rd Marquez

4th Pedrosa

No i dont have a link i just remember watching him say it,while i agree with your comments above i think MM will have no problems getting to grips with a MGP Honda,if Rea can get that close in his first ride MM will have no problems,i really believe he is the real thing and will be challenging Jorge,pedro and Rossi from the off,i believe he is that good but i may be wrong time will tell.

chopperman said:

I think next season will end.

1st Lorenzo

2nd Rossi

3rd Marquez

4th Pedrosa

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i think your close there chops.

thedeal said:

No i dont have a link i just remember watching him say it,while i agree with your comments above i think MM will have no problems getting to grips with a MGP Honda,if Rea can get that close in his first ride MM will have no problems,i really believe he is the real thing and will be challenging Jorge,pedro and Rossi from the off,i believe he is that good but i may be wrong time will tell.

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Don't get me wrong, I think Marquez will be extremely fast

Confused

.com

Zootalaws said:

You really think Spies on a 'junior' Ducati will be beating Bradl on a 'junior' HRC or Marquez on the full-fat factory bike? I can't see Ducati giving the Pramac team the same gear as the factory team - having Spies and Iannone beating Hayden wouldn't go down well with Marlboro.

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From the Press releases, Spies will be on a Factory Spec bike.

The word is Ducati is looking for development input from Team Italian/American and American/Italian.



But again. My second comment was qualified, If Audi-Ducati gets their act together.

Either way it goes, He will be behind Team Yamaha, Pedrosa,Crutchlow, and Bradl.

Yes. Bradl.

Don't forget, the performance difference between the top 10 Moto2 is a lot closer than that in MotoGP. He has to take a lot more risk to get a run on his competitors. With the RC213V under him, he will have a performance advantage over 90% of the field straight away.



Stoner crashed a lot in his rookie year because he was on uncompetitive machinery, striving to get to the front. Marquez will have the benefit of the best-funded, most professional outfit in GP with a very, very competitive bike under him. Once he has got the measure of the machine, I don't think he will need to take so many risks to be competitive.

Zootalaws said:

Don't forget, the performance difference between the top 10 Moto2 is a lot closer than that in MotoGP. He has to take a lot more risk to get a run on his competitors. With the RC213V under him, he will have a performance advantage over 90% of the field straight away.



Stoner crashed a lot in his rookie year because he was on uncompetitive machinery, striving to get to the front. Marquez will have the benefit of the best-funded, most professional outfit in GP with a very, very competitive bike under him. Once he has got the measure of the machine, I don't think he will need to take so many risks to be competitive.

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Very true.

Zootalaws said:

Don't forget, the performance difference between the top 10 Moto2 is a lot closer than that in MotoGP. He has to take a lot more risk to get a run on his competitors. With the RC213V under him, he will have a performance advantage over 90% of the field straight away.



Stoner crashed a lot in his rookie year because he was on uncompetitive machinery, striving to get to the front. Marquez will have the benefit of the best-funded, most professional outfit in GP with a very, very competitive bike under him. Once he has got the measure of the machine, I don't think he will need to take so many risks to be competitive.

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The bike Stoner was on was very competitive. He crashed a lot because according to him, he was getting substandard left over tires.

povol said:

The bike Stoner was on was very competitive. He crashed a lot because according to him, he was getting substandard left over tires.

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It was also one of the loudest HRC bikes I've ever heard.

I posted something similar in the moto2 misano thread...marquez pushes the bike, even tho he makes incredible recoveries, i think the 1000s will be less forgiving. In a similar situation i think he would not save it. Anybody notice him almost lose it in the race?



consistency, not speed, will be his issue

Ngads said:

I posted something similar in the moto2 misano thread...marquez pushes the bike, even tho he makes incredible recoveries, i think the 1000s will be less forgiving. In a similar situation i think he would not save it. Anybody notice him almost lose it in the race?



consistency, not speed, will be his issue

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But with all the electronics in moto gp he will get away it no probs.

thedeal said:

But with all the electronics in moto gp he will get away it no probs.

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Possibly, we have to remember that none of us really know how that affects it. I mean 100% how. If the electronics played that much of a role no1 would crash

Ngads said:

Possibly, we have to remember that none of us really know how that affects it. I mean 100% how. If the electronics played that much of a role no1 would crash

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We will have to wait and see.

No amount of electronics can eliminate the possibility of a crash. They merely mitigate.

Arrabbiata1 said:

No amount of electronics can eliminate the possibility of a crash. They merely mitigate.

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Agreed but no/.... electronics make 200/250 hp unrideable at GP pace just ask Colin Edwards.

He will have the best of everything for next year and he will beat everybody more than once,if he doesnt pm me your address and i will send you a case of your favorite beer,im that confident.