Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Too true ..... I bet none of them know about VSGs like you and I.
NeroGiardini Motorrad Grand Prix von Trapp Austria 2017
- Thread starter MdubSTYLIE
- Start date
Too true ..... I bet none of them know about VSGs like you and I.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Sure do. I also remember Prezi being pushed under a bus with a knife in the back, shortly followed by Burgess, both having done nothing special, or in Burgess case what have have you done for me lately? All correct decisions in hindsight naturally.
I wonder at the reaction not only from the Italians at large but more specifically Mr Rossi at having a fellow countryman possibly stealing the limelight. Never going to happen of coarse we are only one rule, tire or vote change away from crushing the rebellion and returning empirical order to the championship.
Rossi can have whatever tire he wants as far as I am concerned.
My issue is with tires which suit other riders being taken away, particularly with the season well underway. I don't see why Vinales couldn't have continued with the tire on which he started.
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Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
I think the tyres the season started with couldn't be carried on as that would give the riders too many choices firstly, also the logistical headache, the current situation is working well for most teams, ironically the movistar Yamaha team is probably the worst affected.
Joined Nov 2015
242 Posts | 144+
Australia
Wow, I think us Motogp fans were treated with arguably one of the most thrilling episodes of the 2017 season at Austria. Once again it was great to see Jorge showing some impressive pace at the start and hold on for a 4th place. It sure is taking some time to adapt to the Ducati but it looks like he is continually making progress which has got to give the team some optimism. Hopefully he can keep the momentum going and work on his longevity over race distance.
Marquez showed us all why he is a force to be reckoned with. Strong at the start and relentless with his pressure on whoever was running first and always keen to hang it out there for a big move in the end. Sure it was a big lunge at the final corner that a few claim was a little too desperate but no contact was made. It wasn't like Dovi was pushed off the track whilst Marquez popped a wheelie to a victory so I think its easy to call it fair play.
As for Dovi, I have to admit I was so glad to see him keep his wits about him with Marquez biting at his heels. The pressure would have been relentless but he held strong the whole way. I don't know the guy but he seems relatively humble compared to someone of the other riders. Nice guys can finish first after all.
Marquez showed us all why he is a force to be reckoned with. Strong at the start and relentless with his pressure on whoever was running first and always keen to hang it out there for a big move in the end. Sure it was a big lunge at the final corner that a few claim was a little too desperate but no contact was made. It wasn't like Dovi was pushed off the track whilst Marquez popped a wheelie to a victory so I think its easy to call it fair play.
As for Dovi, I have to admit I was so glad to see him keep his wits about him with Marquez biting at his heels. The pressure would have been relentless but he held strong the whole way. I don't know the guy but he seems relatively humble compared to someone of the other riders. Nice guys can finish first after all.
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
The medium is harder than the hard? What? The medium tire has a harder carcass to make up for the softer outside to help brake load or are you guys saying its just plain harder?
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
No, they mean like harder to understand man... because... the soft is the hardest of the hard - like Jimmy Cliff, and the hardest is a medium - like Alison DuBois, and the medium, well just call it DQ soft serve.
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
There's always this talk of Dovi being the eternal bridesmaid, and I thought that as well, until he got with Honda. He did as well anyone (at the time) could have done on the Pedrocycle, and seemed, mysteriously, to be much faster on days when Dani was in the hospital. He's been pretty damned consistent on the Ducati, and overall got better points than any of his teammates. I reckon his much improved results these days are equal parts a product of a much improved bike and his day to day participation in the development trials that have made the bike so much better. Now in his 5th year at Ducati he has a ride that is more or less the equal of his racecraft. I loved watching him at Austria. He was absolutely not flustered or unnerved by Marquez. He was totally calm and in control. Really brilliant.
I agree however with JPL that Marquez is still the better rider, and that he'd have rung better results out of the Duc and got at least one championship on it.
I can't think of anyone in the paddock who I'd rather see take the championship, but reality is, I think this is Marquez's to win.
I expect Dovi will continue to do well on the Duc, unless R&D begins catering more to Lorenzo's needs.
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Tough for the other riders, who voted for the Vinales tire in the first place. If they want a change mid-season, they can put up with the inconvenience of having "too many choices", rather less onerous I would have thought than Vinales not having his choice with which he was proceeding rather well.
The logistics thing is obviously rubbish, Michelin took extra tires to a US round presumably from Europe/Clermont Ferrand ostensibly just to test them. They have also already incurred all the costs of developing the tire in question.
That the outcome appears to have been bad for both factory Yamaha riders is beside the point/post hoc, Vinales didn't want the new tire in the first place and was proceeding happily on the tire provided to him after a majority vote pre-season.
Joined Mar 2015
2K Posts | 337+
Chertsey, Surrey, UK
Not as many as at Donny. IMO it should return there.
Don't know why Cal was slow maybe an off day.
As for the circuit, its crap, someone will get killed there before to long.
Who is Rob?
Joined Mar 2015
2K Posts | 337+
Chertsey, Surrey, UK
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
I will tell you why but you already know in your heart. Rossi started the tire revolt because his new teammate was making him look silly through preseason and the first 1/3 of the season. In the first 5 races, Vinales was averaging a little bit better than a third place finish at 17 points per race. Since, he has averaged 10.8 points per race. The funny side to this is, with his preferred tire and chassis Rossi's numbers have been worse. With all the upheaval at Yamaha in Rossi's favor, he still has only beaten Vinales once in races they have both finished.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
So the toxic environment at Yamaha continues? I can't resist the temptation to put the boot in. I've had nothing against them in the past, well up until Sepang 15 anyway. Consider right now today Yamaha could have had a team comprised of Lorenzo and Vinales. A dream team that, almost garenteed to take the fight to Marquez and Honda. Instead they chose the yellow t shirt sales over the brand, and have screwed themselves out of the championship with barely a whimper. Karma's a ..... eh Jarvis.
Meanwhile Honda have reinvented the bike, changing the engine, the electronics, and the chassis, you know because tire 070 was made specifically for them. Marquez looks poised for a long period of domination. Anyone think team Yamaha aren't occasionally looking over at Lorenzo and thinking ah those were the good old days when we could rely on the metronome to develop the bike. While plenty of boppers want to paint Lorenzo as a primadonna failure, I don't think Ducati are looking lovingly at their old mate Ianone wishing if only we still had you to take out Dovi every second race.
As a side note my sources tell me Dovi waited to let Lorenzo run the ugly duck first because the fairing is at the absolute limit of the rules and Ducati were expecting a protest from Honda and Yamaha, which might have resulted in taking away their points in Brno, though it wouldn't matter for Lorenzo only Dovi. Now he's in the clear apparently he's using it, though I still wouldn't rule out an end of season court challenge if a certain rider would happen the lose the championship by a mere handful of points. Luckily with toxic Yamaha sabotaging itself it unlikely that's going to happen. Someone will just whinge the championship wasn't fair.
First, there will be a press conference alluding to conspiracy.
Then, a clipboard will appear with figures regarding the unfair aerodynamic efficiencies of the fairing and how, by riding closely to others it improves the downforce of said fairing and reduces the drag, thus is unfair.
Then we will see a petition on the web regarding removal of all point accrued by said fairing using riders, with points provided to 'other more deserving riders'
Then a court challenge
Followed by the cancellation of a celebration
All the time we will see articles by Moxley about the unfair interpretation of the rules that allowed such an aerodynamic masterpiece and calling for it to be banned
Then Caramello is seen emerging from an un-named trailer
Then we suddenly have Loris testing the fairing and deciding it provides an unfair advantage
And finally, DORNA outlaw it for next year as 'outside the spirit of the rule'
I truly wonder how Yamaha feel. Vinales was looking like he was gonna walk away with the championship until Rossi stamped his feet and demanded new tyres and chassis. Honda had once again looked like they ...... up the bike but now with the tyre change and their improvements Marquez has gained 60 points on Vinales. The Yamaha looks like it'll have some good weekends but will be more inconsistent than even the Duc now.
Much like his time at Ducati, Yamaha have Rossi what he demanded and the bike and both their riders performances have gotten worse. It's clear now how important that Lorenzos input was on the control tyre. I think that Vinales trashing Michelin publically while Marquez keeps his the feelings about the tyres close to him, it's doubtful Michelin will give Vinales what he wants/needs to beat Marquez(ie removing tyres Marquez favour for ones that he favours) and take the title in the coming seasons.
So there you have it. Yamaha relied solely on Rossi for input for the 2017 bike which he then complained about while his teammate looked almost like a lock to take the championship, they made the changes he wanted and now it look like not only his teammates chances are done but so are his. It was a ....... great idea choosing the old man over Lorenzo.
Much like his time at Ducati, Yamaha have Rossi what he demanded and the bike and both their riders performances have gotten worse. It's clear now how important that Lorenzos input was on the control tyre. I think that Vinales trashing Michelin publically while Marquez keeps his the feelings about the tyres close to him, it's doubtful Michelin will give Vinales what he wants/needs to beat Marquez(ie removing tyres Marquez favour for ones that he favours) and take the title in the coming seasons.
So there you have it. Yamaha relied solely on Rossi for input for the 2017 bike which he then complained about while his teammate looked almost like a lock to take the championship, they made the changes he wanted and now it look like not only his teammates chances are done but so are his. It was a ....... great idea choosing the old man over Lorenzo.
Wow, some great points in there. I'd never thought of it like that. What a killer team that would have been with Lorenzo and Vinales. I don't know whether these two get on or what kind of atmosphere it would have led to but I imagine that Yamaha would be doing a lot better than they are now.
I just wonder if the bosses and Jarvis will have the humility to look at themselves and think 'maybe we should have stuck with the other guy'?
Another really good post. Yeah, nice one Yamaha. Alter the winning trajectory of the team to appease your aging star and then discover that his input screws the pooch and you end up doing worse than before.
Understanding that 2017 was going to be tough for Lorenzo, I was at least looking forward to the prospect of Maverick and Marquez going head to head and seeing if Vinales had the stones to duke it out with MM. Slow round of applause for Rossi clipping the wings of his team mate.
It was a very enjoyable race to watch. I'll put my hand up and admit that I am one that thinks Dovi still hasn't quite got it.
Don't get me wrong, I like the guy a lot. He's smiley, affable and doesn't seem party to the political BS that some can get into. However, to me he never seems to really push it. He seems more inclined to advance through a field by profiting when others fluff up a corner rather than actively push for an overtake. Now I understand that the mark of a very good rider is to maintain your consistent poise and let other people screw up and for this, he is very good.
To some extent this makes him the perfect foil to Marquez. MM will back it into the corner, try different angles and ride the bike beyond it's limit. Meanwhile Dovi with his metronomic class will be able to compete with MM's 'wildness' with his 'calmness'.
However, when it comes to that final push, I think MM's do or die ego is what carries him to the victory. So whilst I'm delighted at how Dovi performed and I'd love to see him do more, I just never feel from his body language or riding style that he is prepared to really make it happen.
Who knows, maybe the remainder of the season can become a fascinating tussle between these two riders. Crazy wildman versus smooth operator.
I also have to comment on how good it was to see Dovi's dismissive hand flick and the respect and camaraderie between the two at the end. It does take two good guys to battle it out and still remain jovial with each other afterwards.
Props also to Lorenzo. I keep wanting to try and draw comfort from his performances and really hope it won't be too long before he is genuinely competing for a podium.
Don't get me wrong, I like the guy a lot. He's smiley, affable and doesn't seem party to the political BS that some can get into. However, to me he never seems to really push it. He seems more inclined to advance through a field by profiting when others fluff up a corner rather than actively push for an overtake. Now I understand that the mark of a very good rider is to maintain your consistent poise and let other people screw up and for this, he is very good.
To some extent this makes him the perfect foil to Marquez. MM will back it into the corner, try different angles and ride the bike beyond it's limit. Meanwhile Dovi with his metronomic class will be able to compete with MM's 'wildness' with his 'calmness'.
However, when it comes to that final push, I think MM's do or die ego is what carries him to the victory. So whilst I'm delighted at how Dovi performed and I'd love to see him do more, I just never feel from his body language or riding style that he is prepared to really make it happen.
Who knows, maybe the remainder of the season can become a fascinating tussle between these two riders. Crazy wildman versus smooth operator.
I also have to comment on how good it was to see Dovi's dismissive hand flick and the respect and camaraderie between the two at the end. It does take two good guys to battle it out and still remain jovial with each other afterwards.
Props also to Lorenzo. I keep wanting to try and draw comfort from his performances and really hope it won't be too long before he is genuinely competing for a podium.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Birdy, p4p1, Payne, excellent takes.
I don’t think Yamaha is losing any sleep over shooting themselves in the foot by developing the bike away from their current top rider, Viñalez. It is funny though because Rossi's developmental skill has been purported to be quite legendary. It still tickles me that my buddy J4 (whom I genuinely like) infamously claimed Ducati had done nothing extra, extraordinary, or radical to accommodate Rossi. Ducati only shitcanned their hallmark chassis for one so foreign to them they had to hire a third party to make it. The greatest 'development' for Rossi was a simple line: I'll quit if I'm not competitive.
I don’t think Yamaha is losing any sleep over shooting themselves in the foot by developing the bike away from their current top rider, Viñalez. It is funny though because Rossi's developmental skill has been purported to be quite legendary. It still tickles me that my buddy J4 (whom I genuinely like) infamously claimed Ducati had done nothing extra, extraordinary, or radical to accommodate Rossi. Ducati only shitcanned their hallmark chassis for one so foreign to them they had to hire a third party to make it. The greatest 'development' for Rossi was a simple line: I'll quit if I'm not competitive.
