Mugello Test

hawkdriver said:

Didn't the midget bike give CS a championship? It lloked to work damn good for the midget, CS, Dovi, and Simo.

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Keshav said:

No. The bike Stoner rode was considerably altered by Honda to suit him. Moreover Dovi and Simo never won any

championships on the bike. Simo barely ever finished a race on it - so how can you possibly say it worked well for him???

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Keshav said:

Has to do with your mention of the Stoner winning on bikes developed by other riders - when in fact

the Ducati he won on in 2007 was an 800 therefore a totally new bike that wasn't developed by Capirossi

or Melandri.



And the Honda he won on last year was also essentially a new bike.



Neither bike's design was static throughout the season - or in other words, both were constantly evolving throughout the season using Stoner's feedback and brought him and the factories success, these facts I point out to refute your implication that Stoner's successes were totally the work of previous developers and that the bike got worse due to his influence, two things that you have repeatedly either implied or said outright ad nausem.

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hawkdriver said:

If you call clip ons and foot pegs altered than okay. If you want to refute what the Honda developers themselves have said then okay

Sepang preseason test, that bike was .... hot before Casey ever laid a hand on it, just as it was during the valencia post seasontest of 2010 the first time he gets on it he finishes the test in 1st. It's pretty obvious that only one person could win a championship on the 2011 bike.

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chopperman said:

It wasn't developed by Stoner either just like the Honda he won on. You assumed i was meaning it was developed by Capi when if fact it was still someone else's bike ie the engineers and test riders bike .

My point is stoner has not won a wc on a bike he has had influence on but he has won 2 wc's on bikes new to him, hence he is the master at winning on someone elses bike !



Another assumption, you don't know who's feed back hrc were using throughout the season. If stoner's development and feedback skill were so influential, how come he never won consecutive titles, in fact all he has done is moan about the bikes deteriorating after his title years.

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hawkdriver said:

If you call clip ons and foot pegs altered than okay. If you want to refute what the Honda developers themselves have said then okay

Sepang preseason test, that bike was .... hot before Casey ever laid a hand on it, just as it was during the valencia post seasontest of 2010 the first time he gets on it he finishes the test in 1st. It's pretty obvious that only one person could win a championship on the 2011 bike.

1. Marco Simoncelli (Honda) 2:00.757 (136 laps) Fastest motorcycle lap ever recorded at Sepang



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2. Dani Pedrosa (Honda) 2:00.770 (144 laps)



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3. Casey Stoner (Honda) 2:00.811 (138 laps)



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4. Jorge Lorenzo (Yamaha) 2:00.845 (125 laps)



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5. Andrea Dovizioso (Honda) 2:00.945 (156 laps)



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6. Ben Spies (Yamaha) 2:01.002 (149 laps)



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7. Hiroshi Aoyama (Honda) 2:01.353 (186 laps)



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8. Nicky Hayden (Ducati) 2:01.534 (187 laps)



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9. Colin Edwards (Yamaha) 2:01.651 (125 laps)



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10. Alvaro Bautista (Suzuki) 2:01.687 (100 laps)



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11. Valentino Rossi (Ducati) 2:01.842 (124 laps)



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12. Hector Barbera (Ducati) 2:02.030 (146 laps)



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13. Loris Capirossi (Ducati) 2:02.057 (146 laps)



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14. Randy De Puniet (Ducati) 2:02.159 (170)



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15. Kosuke Akiyoshi (Honda Tester) 2:02.619 (99 laps)



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16. Karel Abraham (Ducati) 2:02.645 (128) --



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17. Cal Crutchlow (Yamaha) 2:02.717 (148 laps)



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18. Toni Elias (Honda) 2:02.916 (177 laps)



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19. Wataru Yoshikawa (Yamaha Tester) 2:02.956 (150 laps)



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20. Norihiko Fujiwara (Yamaha Tester) 2:03.621 (150 laps)



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21. Nobuatso Aoki (Suzuki Replacement) 2:04.700 (46 laps​

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Keshav said:

Given that Stoner has won two (and possibly three) more world championships than the two Spanish riders logic dictates that there's a good chance he knows how to set up a bike in order to make the bike capable of winning more championships. I'd go so far as to wager that the good folks at Honda are objective enough to appreciate Stoner's vast skills and base the 2013 chassis on his specificationas as opposed to that of say some overweight internet bully filled with twisted loathing for Stoner simply because he doesn't conform to high ideals of manhood exemplified by semi-literate yahoos and drunken pub hooligans. Just sayin'. Of course Dani and Marc might get lucky if Honda somehow manages to put together an extra two bikes, and then they could have the ever so healthy Vale and Jerry "rabbit out of my hat" Burgess do for Honda what they've done for Ducati.

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xx CURVE xx said:

^ so 2 maybe 3 championships is better than 7?

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Keshav said:

No but infinitely better than all the championships won by Pedrosa and Marquez.

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yamaka46 said:

To be fair to Curve, Kesh, you did post the bits bolded above, implying that JB & Rossi can't set up a bike because of 18 months of failure to get the Ducati sorted, but Stoner can with 2 WCs, rather than his 2 top class WCs were worth more than Pedrosa's 250 WCs and Marquez lack of WCs. Surely the 7 WCs that JB & Rossi managed together must mean something.



I'd agree that there is no way HRC are going to reject any of Stoner's feedback just because he is leaving, but if he and Pedrosa want to go completely different ways (not sure this is the case, or even likely) then I guess they'd be more likely to come down on Pedrosa's side for the 2013 chassis, regardless of the fact that they are bringing it in during Stoners last season. I hope that this doesn't happen and that we can have a genuine 3 way fight for the WC, ideally to the wire. I'd also like Stoner to win it, but that's a different kettle of fish.

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Keshav said:

Curvey's just bustin' my balls for fun and I took it as that and nothing more. I wasn't on any track for the purposes of badmouthing Rossi. He's got a shitstorm of criticism coming without any help from me. I only referenced the 2 MGP

championships of Stoner for purposes of contrasting the lack of them from either Pedrosa or Marquez. Nobody -

no matter how filled with hate or how deluded can ever take away what Rossi and Burgess have accomplished.



If you read my other posts - I consistently downplay the importance of Rossi's magic development skills - but only because a certain segment here constantly magnify them to absurd proportions. Rossi is a racer not an engineer.

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J4rn0 said:

The inside news is that Furusawa is going visit Ducati at the end of the Mugello tests.

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J4rn0 said:

The inside news is that Furusawa is going visit Ducati at the end of the Mugello tests.

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Keshav said:

The intellectually weak mind uses statistics like a drunk uses a streetlamp -

to prop themselves up when they can't stand on their own

- rather than for illumination.[/left][/left]

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hawkdriver said:

There you go with the insults and wanna be clever quotes, I guess you have nothing left to offer. I'd normally stoop to your level but instead I'll commend you on making it this far before you started your normal .....

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Talpa said:

its about time......wonder whos paying for the flight?

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J4rn0 said:

Someone who wants an independent and reliable assessment of the status there... Anyway there was a previous invitation to Masao by Preziosi, back in 2011, for those who remember.

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hawkdriver said:

Wouldn't it be something if this was the answer to " what would it take for you to stay"

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Talpa said:

Will they listen to Masao? So far they've clearly done little with all of the feedback from the most successful team in the series

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yamaka46 said:

No worries, didn't mean to imply you were a Rossi hater. I agree that he is a racer, as are they all, and none are engineers. Doubtless, some give clearer feedback than others which may help the engineers find solutions at times (engineers are not racers!), but that is all.

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J4rn0 said:

The inside news is that Furusawa is going visit Ducati at the end of the Mugello tests.

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michaelm said:

Rossi is not at all responsible for the bike not being fixed, the thing is basically unfixable with the current design on the current tyres in my view, which is why stoner shouldn't be blamed for not "developing" it either.



The basic thing though is that for ducati to be competitive at all with their technical resources vs honda and yamaha is pretty good, and to win a championship in 2007 and be in contention in 2006 and 2008 was fairly remarkable in absolute terms. The rules have been changed against them to an extent now, and I don't think they are going to jag having the bike competitive due to more engine power any more, so they are more or less forced to go to a design similar to the japanese in all respects. Ferrari seem to be having problems now that the F1 rules basically stop them having a more powerful engine as well.

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