Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
In this photo from Mugello (courtesy GPOne) we can see more of the Ducati's frame... and, surprise, it is not a 'perimetral' frame, the two beams seem to go straight under the tank towards the steering head, above the heads of the front cylinders that do not interfere any more with the radiator (which previously was cut in half by the desmo heads and now is one piece) -- so obviously the engine has been rotated back considerably (this is the main difference between the factory bike and the Pramac bike).
It seems they continue doing things differently at Ducati... good or bad that it is.
It seems they continue doing things differently at Ducati... good or bad that it is.
Well as long as Dani and hopefully marquez get on with it who cares what stoner thinks. It's not as if he will be riding it next year. I would expect HRC to now design bikes around them rather than from stoners input.
I'd guess HRC would like to know what the reigning world champion thinks about a new bike.
Any advice he may give them is bound to be more useful and insightful than "who cares what Stoner thinks..."
Any advice he may give them is bound to be more useful and insightful than "who cares what Stoner thinks..."
I'd guess HRC would like to know what the reigning world champion thinks about a new bike.
Any advice he may give them is bound to be more useful and insightful than "who cares what Stoner thinks..."
I think they would be more interested in what the riders who are going to try and get the next championship for them have to say, rather than a winging retiring sick boy.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I think they would be more interested in what the riders who are going to try and get the next championship for them have to say, rather than a winging retiring sick boy.
Given that Stoner has won two (and possibly three) more world championships than the two Spanish riders logic dictates that there's a good chance he knows how to set up a bike in order to make the bike capable of winning more championships. I'd go so far as to wager that the good folks at Honda are objective enough to appreciate Stoner's vast skills and base the 2013 chassis on his specificationas as opposed to that of say some overweight internet bully filled with twisted loathing for Stoner simply because he doesn't conform to high ideals of manhood exemplified by semi-literate yahoos and drunken pub hooligans. Just sayin'. Of course Dani and Marc might get lucky if Honda somehow manages to put together an extra two bikes, and then they could have the ever so healthy Vale and Jerry "rabbit out of my hat" Burgess do for Honda what they've done for Ducati.
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Given that Stoner has won two (and possibly three) more world championships than the two Spanish riders logic dictates that there's a good chance he knows how to set up a bike in order to make the bike capable of winning more championships. I'd go so far as to wager that the good folks at Honda are objective enough to appreciate Stoner's vast skills and base the 2013 chassis on his specificationas as opposed to that of say some overweight internet bully filled with twisted loathing for Stoner simply because he doesn't conform to high ideals of manhood exemplified by semi-literate yahoos and drunken pub hooligans. Just sayin'. Of course Dani and Marc might get lucky if Honda somehow manages to put together an extra two bikes, and then they could have the ever so healthy Vale and Jerry "rabbit out of my hat" Burgess do for Honda what they've done for Ducati.
Yes Stoner has won 2 championships, but both on bikes new to him. He won on his FIRST year at ducati then his second in his FIRST year at Honda. I wouldn't go so far as to state he knows how to set up a bike to win future championship as he has never had consecutive titles. Stoner is the master at winning on someone else's bike.
Stoner riding style is very different to dani's so i wouldn't be building a bike around stoner if i were in HRC.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
The old "the bike rides itself" story has played itself out to death. And so has the myth of the magical powers of any riders feedback. We've all seen time and again quotes from riders complaining about just how little the engineers at the Japanese companies really listen. Look at the Ducati situation and the same is true there.
Look at this way: chatter is universally considered a negative - by all riders. If in the course of the season Honda uses Stoner's feedback to arrive at a chassis that has no feedback, or at least as little as the M1 - then everyone benefits. If however they limit themselves to building the bike to satisfy midgets - then they are stuck with hiring midgets to suit the bike; not that there's dearth of them in Spain.
The old "the bike rides itself" story has played itself out to death. And so has the myth of the magical powers of any riders feedback. We've all seen time and again quotes from riders complaining about just how little the engineers at the Japanese companies really listen. Look at the Ducati situation and the same is true there.
Look at this way: chatter is universally considered a negative - by all riders. If in the course of the season Honda uses Stoner's feedback to arrive at a chassis that has no feedback, or at least as little as the M1 - then everyone benefits. If however they limit themselves to building the bike to satisfy midgets - then they are stuck with hiring midgets to suit the bike; not that there's dearth of them in Spain.Right now - you might laugh and say, so what? But what about when 2014 comes around and Honda wants to hire Crutchlow or yer man Redding? Then it's back to square one.
I agree with what you said above but cant really see wtf it has to do with the post you quoted?
Well Dani seems to think the new chassis isn't so bad and they may let him use it so things may get really interesting over at Honda. If you guys take a look at the RCV site you'll see what they think about in regards to CS and DP feed back.
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
Yeah - I remember Honda thanking Nicky for 2006 and all development thereafter following Nicky's lead. Oh wait a sec... No they didn't - they followed the Pedder... plus c'est le change, plus c'est le mem chose.Given that Stoner has won two (and possibly three) more world championships than the two Spanish riders logic dictates that there's a good chance he knows how to set up a bike in order to make the bike capable of winning more championships. I'd go so far as to wager that the good folks at Honda are objective enough to appreciate Stoner's vast skills and base the 2013 chassis on his specificationas as opposed to that of say some overweight internet bully filled with twisted loathing for Stoner simply because he doesn't conform to high ideals of manhood exemplified by semi-literate yahoos and drunken pub hooligans. Just sayin'. Of course Dani and Marc might get lucky if Honda somehow manages to put together an extra two bikes, and then they could have the ever so healthy Vale and Jerry "rabbit out of my hat" Burgess do for Honda what they've done for Ducati.
The old "the bike rides itself" story has played itself out to death. And so has the myth of the magical powers of any riders feedback. We've all seen time and again quotes from riders complaining about just how little the engineers at the Japanese companies really listen. Look at the Ducati situation and the same is true there.
Look at this way: chatter is universally considered a negative - by all riders. If in the course of the season Honda uses Stoner's feedback to arrive at a chassis that has no feedback, or at least as little as the M1 - then everyone benefits. If however they limit themselves to building the bike to satisfy midgets - then they are stuck with hiring midgets to suit the bike; not that there's dearth of them in Spain.Right now - you might laugh and say, so what? But what about when 2014 comes around and Honda wants to hire Crutchlow or yer man Redding? Then it's back to square one.
Didn't the midget bike give CS a championship? It lloked to work damn good for the midget, CS, Dovi, and Simo.
Directly from the engineers who don't listen http://world.honda.com/RC-V/RC212V/report-body02/page3/
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 34+
Tar Heel State
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
^ so 2 maybe 3 championships is better than 7?
No but infinitely better than all the championships won by Pedrosa and Marquez.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Has to do with your mention of the Stoner winning on bikes developed by other riders - when in fact
the Ducati he won on in 2007 was an 800 therefore a totally new bike that wasn't developed by Capirossi
or Melandri.
And the Honda he won on last year was also essentially a new bike.
Neither bike's design was static throughout the season - or in other words, both were constantly evolving throughout the season using Stoner's feedback and brought him and the factories success, these facts I point out to refute your implication that Stoner's successes were totally the work of previous developers and that the bike got worse due to his influence, two things that you have repeatedly either implied or said outright ad nausem.
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