MotoGP New rules 2013. One bike + 5 engines max & Less mechanics

Talpa said:

The tyre advantage was gifted to Bridgestone via a regulation we must remember, a regulation which completely negated Michelins supply strategy, which was in essence the ultimate in prototype development across a race weekend.



This reg combined with the fuel limit IMO are the two biggest contributors to the escalation in cost. People love to blame Rossi for the control tyre, but it was the MSMA who are directly responsible, with less influence by rubber the focus has shifted to bike engineering and software, playing directly into the hands of Honda and making the sport ridiculously and prohibitively expensive. And funnily enough at the time the tyre supply reg was implemented to reduce costs.........an overnight special somehow seems quite cheap now.



As lex has pointed out this plus the rest of regs post 2007 could have been Hondas way of stopping burgess and Rossi, what it has done is made the audience question what they are seeing and turn away through boredom and predictability, not too mention questioning the reasons that have been given for the regs which, for me are right up there with the WOMD excuse. With the MSMA influence now limited let's hope Dorna can find a decent solution, at the moment it still seems unlikely.

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Honda undoubtedly bear large responsibility for the unsustainable cost structure and recent (and possibly current) one line nature of the racing consequent particularly on the fuel limit which they appear to particularly champion.



I think it is rather a stretch to hold them responsible for the demise of the overnight tyre rule given that michelin were their tyre supplier, or for the control tyre as they seemed happy to stick with michelin and give them time to come good. The latter was substantially contributed to by 2 riders, valentino and dani pedrosa, particularly the latter, for reasons of short term self interest, understandable though those reasons were from the perspective of a rider wanting to win a particular championship. To be fair I am sure Michelin's financial woes which preceded the gfc didn't help their motogp race tyre program in 2007 and 2008. I also think the overnight specials were becoming too expensive for them to sustain anyway.

Talpa said:

The tyre advantage was gifted to Bridgestone via a regulation we must remember, a regulation which completely negated Michelins supply strategy, which was in essence the ultimate in prototype development across a race weekend.



This reg combined with the fuel limit IMO are the two biggest contributors to the escalation in cost. People love to blame Rossi for the control tyre, but it was the MSMA who are directly responsible, with less influence by rubber the focus has shifted to bike engineering and software, playing directly into the hands of Honda and making the sport ridiculously and prohibitively expensive. And funnily enough at the time the tyre supply reg was implemented to reduce costs.........an overnight special somehow seems quite cheap now.

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The tire rules situation is difficult to decipher. Did Michelin also want to end overnight specials to reduce costs? No one really knows. Futhermore, if Bridgestone did violate the spirit of competition in MotoGP (I think they did in 2008 with the Rossi-Stoner front tire), they have been rewarded with a control tire. Control tires are the bane of Bridgestone's existence, and the slag fest Bridgestone have endured over the last 2 seasons hasn't helped their brand identity.



Without a doubt fuel limitation has been the gift that keeps on giving. In the 990cc era, the tires were supposed to give the rider good feel and help him put the power to the pavement. The 22L rule and the 21L rule made the tires even more important b/c carrying corner speed helped the rider save fuel. The tire war became too costly and too dangerous (according to some); therefore, Dorna introduced the control tire. Since the control tire, the cost of going faster has been absorbed entirely by the manufacturer. In the 26-24L 990cc era, all manufacturers made enough power. They quality of the overnight specials often decided who won the races. Teams no longer work with the tire suppliers to get the best rubber for their bikes, instead, they develop zero-shift gearboxes, adaptive fuel mapping, carbon monocoque, and other designs.



Evaluating the 21L tire war and the control tire to determine which has been more expensive is a waste of time, imo. Splitting hairs. However, identifying fuel-limited competition as a cost driver is probably a worthwhile pursuit. As long as the capacity remains at strict 21L restriction, the costs will probably remain high. Dorna are trying to circumvent the tight fuel restriction with 14,500rpm rev limit. The modest rev limit will reduce the advantages of addition fuel efficiency technology.

michaelm said:

Sure. As I said CRT looks to be at least partially working already in terms of the factories getting serious about limiting costs and technology . They need to have a strategy for getting places like India and Indonesia which not only have the virtue of not being in europe but also have lots of folk riding bikes, if not at the pinnacle of current technology.

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Yes!!



Dorna seems to have nailed the Moto3 category as both an appropriate and relevant format for the developing world and entry-level enthusiasts world-wide. The 250cc four stroke sportbike is the ubiquitous step up from a hot scooter and what every teenage asian (and South American, and African) motorhead first hankers for. 20% of developing asia's population is in the 15-24 year range (that's 780 million 15-24 year olds people!!) - a ripe market to pluck and envelope for short and long-term advantage.



Another issue inked to growth of revenue/viewership (which many others have mentioned) that Dorna needs to address immediately is access to their product. Their antiquated business plan which attempts to squeeze revenue out of every pixel of MGP imagery and video is a HUGE FAIL imho. Asia now, today, accounts for about 45% of world-wide internet use. That's over a billion users but only 26% of its potential. It is estimated that 50% of these billion asian internet users are 30 years of age or younger.



Dorna needs to look at the NHL.com website and the NHL's web presence (there are certainly other models but I know this one best!) to see how to market a sporting product online. NHL gamecentre's paid service delivers outstanding quality and a variety of viewing options. Their free service contains no video but is incredibly comprehensive and robust. Tons and tons of high quality photos and video are available on the nhl.com website AND all video is posted to you tube. Players, coaches, refs are cammed and miked during games, practices and preseason for a fuller, more intimate experience. AND the NHL is nonchalant about tracking and cracking live-feed rebroadcasters so I can always find a free feed of my favourite games



Now the NHL realises its in a battle for viewership and fans with other big stick and ball leagues (average about a million viewers for a playoff game whereas NBA playoff games average about 6 million) and plans accordingly. MotGP (Dorna) on the other hand seem to be content with their high (but decidedly eurocentric) viewership (72 million for Mugello 2010) and do not seem to see the need to go out of their way to increase their fanbase. Sad.

Beef Supreme said:

No, Marquez made most of the difference. Did they spend more than most Moto2 teams -- who knows.

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just around 3 times as much as kiefer racing (fact)



mighty repsol sponsorship,catalunya caixa and what did most other teams have?worries that they can not pay the bills.

oh and there was that special exhaust no one except marquez ever got, just to name an example.



marquez is a great rider but i'm getting tired of him being hailed as the next messiah , he got beat by bradl on inferior machinery.

cliché guevara said:

marquez is a great rider but i'm getting tired of him being hailed as the next messiah , he got beat by bradl on inferior machinery.

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Accepting your post for the sake of argument, you made my point nicely: Bradl was able to be competitive on a much less expensive bike, therefore, Moto2 is a much less expensive class than it was when you needed a leased 1m euro Aprilia RSA.

yes, as much as i enjoyed the 250s theres no denying that moto2 is a success compared to the last years of 250s,never argued with that

According to Brembo the SBKs are already on the limits of steel brakes. There won't be any many battles on the brakes until they take the electronics off the clutch and shifter. The bikes automaticly rev match for the next gear and the intake plate is held open a little during braking to prevent the possibility of any engine braking. This is why we don't see as many mistakes, I never raced a bike but I couldn't imagine anything else on the track being as demanding as corner entry.

Dorna is responsible for the product on the field. The NFL is the most popular sport in the US because it doesn't matter if you have a small market team or a large market team worth billions, there is a cap and any team can win on ant given Sunday. In GP we have 2 guys that can win and only two bikes that can win,

hey...when does the "testing limits" get lifted? I thought it was supposed to be done away with this season and the only limiting factor would be the 240 BS tires they have accommodated to them....

hawkdriver said:

According to Brembo the SBKs are already on the limits of steel brakes. There won't be any many battles on the brakes until they take the electronics off the clutch and shifter. The bikes automaticly rev match for the next gear and the intake plate is held open a little during braking to prevent the possibility of any engine braking. This is why we don't see as many mistakes, I never raced a bike but I couldn't imagine anything else on the track being as demanding as corner entry.

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+1 my words

Tekniqs said:

hey...when does the "testing limits" get lifted? I thought it was supposed to be done away with this season and the only limiting factor would be the 240 BS tires they have accommodated to them....

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They are already lifted. There's going to be much more testing throughout the course of the year. and 240 tires aren't as many as you might think.

One bike hu.. So wen it rains red flag or pit stop?

xx CURVE xx said:

One bike hu.. So wen it rains red flag or pit stop?

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Or a slip in different weather on race day warm up?

Race over before the pilot gets to start.

A 1 bike rule is ........

lil red rocket pilot said:

Or a slip in different weather on race day warm up?

Race over before the pilot gets to start.

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xx CURVE xx said:

A 1 bike rule is ........

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yes & yes and paying fans track side will want blood if there Fav or a home GP Rider misses the Race because of a 1 bike rule

and the Wet race rule.DO We want to see Endurance style tyre changes in a short circuit race.if it happens it will mean less

track time for the Viewing spectators

xx CURVE xx said:

A 1 bike rule is ........

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I agree. Perhaps intended to make for more dnfs and keep the points closer rather than contain costs.

mylexicon said:

The tire rules situation is difficult to decipher. Did Michelin also want to end overnight specials to reduce costs? No one really knows. Futhermore, if Bridgestone did violate the spirit of competition in MotoGP (I think they did in 2008 with the Rossi-Stoner front tire), they have been rewarded with a control tire. Control tires are the bane of Bridgestone's existence, and the slag fest Bridgestone have endured over the last 2 seasons hasn't helped their brand identity.



Without a doubt fuel limitation has been the gift that keeps on giving. In the 990cc era, the tires were supposed to give the rider good feel and help him put the power to the pavement. The 22L rule and the 21L rule made the tires even more important b/c carrying corner speed helped the rider save fuel. The tire war became too costly and too dangerous (according to some); therefore, Dorna introduced the control tire. Since the control tire, the cost of going faster has been absorbed entirely by the manufacturer. In the 26-24L 990cc era, all manufacturers made enough power. They quality of the overnight specials often decided who won the races. Teams no longer work with the tire suppliers to get the best rubber for their bikes, instead, they develop zero-shift gearboxes, adaptive fuel mapping, carbon monocoque, and other designs.



Evaluating the 21L tire war and the control tire to determine which has been more expensive is a waste of time, imo. Splitting hairs. However, identifying fuel-limited competition as a cost driver is probably a worthwhile pursuit. As long as the capacity remains at strict 21L restriction, the costs will probably remain high. Dorna are trying to circumvent the tight fuel restriction with 14,500rpm rev limit. The modest rev limit will reduce the advantages of addition fuel efficiency technology.

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Agree. Its complex stuff. Oh, and the rev limit, like the engine rule, again screwing Ducati out of the spirit of prototyping (for those who actualy care about unique solutions).

.

michaelm said:

I agree. Perhaps intended to make for more dnfs and keep the points closer rather than contain costs.

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I dont follow. Stoner had one DNF through no fault. How would the ........ one bike rule keep the points closer? If anything, the opposite effect. Its make the points even more out of reach for rivals who all had DNFs at fault.

Jumkie said:

.



I dont follow. Stoner had one DNF through no fault. How would the ........ one bike rule keep the points closer? If anything, the opposite effect. Its make the points even more out of reach for rivals who all had DNFs at fault.

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Wouldn't the 1 bike rule cause a DNS rather than a DNF?

Mental Anarchist said:

Wouldn't the 1 bike rule cause a DNS rather than a DNF?

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Yes, which is even more confusing. Though my point i think still stands, as Stoner wasnt much of a crasher in warm up. Right?

Jumkie said:

Yes, which is even more confusing. Though my point i think still stands, as Stoner wasnt much of a crasher in warm up. Right?

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Correct. The warm up lap is a different story though!!!!!