MotoGP Differences...

Being a noob and not knowing much about the differences between SBK bikes and MotoGP bikes...what is going to be the biggest hurdle for Spies to overcome in order to be successful in GP?

Are the bikes THAT different? Is he going to have to make wholesale changes?

"Are the bikes THAT different?" - YES
"Is he going to have to make wholesale changes?" - YES

He's a quick study, and he's ridden the Suzie 800, but it is a big adjustment in terms of riding style, mainly due to much greater amount of speed carried through corners, making entry speed essential - something less of a concern with superbikes!

a biggy to be seen firstly is how good the Tech3 bike will be
i'm not hoping for a lot from it in 2010.imo.

the Bike

tyres

riding style

tracks (not a prob in wsbk for him though)

the competition

luck

the Engine rule it could totally fook up sat teams in 2010

Engineer.his are newbs arn't they ex AMA

etc

etc

etc

I was kinda thinking riding skills-wise, since whatever the capability of the TechTrois Yamaha next year I'm betting he's gonna over-perform and be on a factory ride (maybe not Yamaha?) in '11.

He has to adapt to the bikes better than Edwards and Bayliss (and Hayden) did. They are exceptional riders ,but still either not good enough or not able to adapt to the required style. I was a huge fan of Bayliss, but came to realise that he could not be consistently fast enough because his superbike style was too entrenched. As Ben is moving over at a younger age than them, he has much more time to adapt. I think he is a greater talent than Hayden. He seems very level headed and I wish him all the best.

Its just unfortunate that he arrives at a time when some of the greatest talent ever is on the track.

It will be very tough for him to reach the standard of Stoner and Lorenzo. The only positive is that he will only have to compete against Rossi for a year or two (?) But I think he can at least compete for the Edwards finishing position (5th) and maybe give Pedrosa a fright (not for a few years though).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 4 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He has to adapt to the bikes better than Edwards and Bayliss (and Hayden) did. They are exceptional riders ,but still either not good enough or not able to adapt to the required style. I was a huge fan of Bayliss, but came to realise that he could not be consistently fast enough because his superbike style was too entrenched. As Ben is moving over at a younger age than them, he has much more time to adapt. I think he is a greater talent than Hayden. He seems very level headed and I wish him all the best.

Its just unfortunate that he arrives at a time when some of the greatest talent ever is on the track.

It will be very tough for him to reach the standard of Stoner and Lorenzo. The only positive is that he will only have to compete against Rossi for a year or two (?) But I think he can at least compete for the Edwards finishing position (5th) and maybe give Pedrosa a fright (not for a few years though).

Spies is coming in to GP at a younger age than Bayliss and Edwards,but Hayden was only 22 when he arivved in GP. Spies will be 26 next year. As far as Spies being more talented than Hayden,its a toss up to me. On Superbikes, i wouldnt bet a large amount of money either way. Dont forget,Nicky was Rookie of the year in GP and finished 5th in the championship.He finished 3rd in the championship his 3rd year and won the title in his 4th. Spies will be very fortunate to match those numbers.I hope he does.

If I'm not mistaken in the few wildcard races he's been in, he was able to beat the regular riders in all of them?? So I think the switch over to Moto bikes won't be that huge of a hurdle.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 4 2009, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies is coming in to GP at a younger age than Bayliss and Edwards,but Hayden was only 22 when he arivved in GP. Spies will be 26 next year. As far as Spies being more talented than Hayden,its a toss up to me. On Superbikes, i wouldnt bet a large amount of money either way. Dont forget,Nicky was Rookie of the year in GP and finished 5th in the championship.He finished 3rd in the championship his 3rd year and won the title in his 4th. Spies will be very fortunate to match those numbers.I hope he does.

My mistake re Spies being younger, but it was because I initially completely forgot about Hayden(!!), and added him in after comparing Spies to Bayliss and Edwards.
I don,t mean to offend, but Nickys first 3 years on a factory Honda were a bit underwhelming. In 2003 (?) in his first year, Bayliss was miles ahead until the end of the season when Ducati lost the plot and Bayliss had a few crashes. I,m not denying that he deserved his title, but you have to compare him to his teammates , and bar 2006 he has not looked all that good. Nicky got there young enough , but (although an exceptional rider) does not have the talent (in my opinion ((Forgive me Jumks )))to compete at the very top level year after year. Spies has at least an equal chance to succeed. I really hope he shakes things up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 4 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I,m not denying that he deserved his title, but you have to compare him to his teammates , and bar 2006 he has not looked all that good.
No way he's going to stack up against Rossi as a rookie, don't even bother with 2003. In 2004 he had two mechanical failures and I believe missed the Czech GP through injury. He still finished some 60 points adrift of Barros but it would have been a lot closer without injury and technical difficulties. In 2005 he beat Biaggi, in 2006 he beat Pedrosa and then the 800s came and that was that. He's the wrong rider for the 800cc era, but in the 990s, once he found his feet, Hayden was amongst the aliens. He wasn't always winning races, but he was in the top four week in, week out.

That being said, I'm still of the belief that Spies is a better rider. I'll always be a Hayden fan over a Spies fan, but I think Spies will be more competitive on an 800cc machine.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 5 2009, 01:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No way he's going to stack up against Rossi as a rookie, don't even bother with 2003. In 2004 he had two mechanical failures and I believe missed the Czech GP through injury. He still finished some 60 points adrift of Barros but it would have been a lot closer without injury and technical difficulties. In 2005 he beat Biaggi, in 2006 he beat Pedrosa and then the 800s came and that was that. He's the wrong rider for the 800cc era, but in the 990s, once he found his feet, Hayden was amongst the aliens. He wasn't always winning races, but he was in the top four week in, week out.

That being said, I'm still of the belief that Spies is a better rider. I'll always be a Hayden fan over a Spies fan, but I think Spies will be more competitive on an 800cc machine.

i totally agree with this guy! a lot of people say he won 2006 just because rossi and pedrosa had bad seasons - i.e pedros crashed and was injured and rossi had bike and tyre issues, but you look at Haydens race by race results and he really got the job done, finishing mainly on the podium. your average rider does not finish on the podium race in race out. its a real shame he cant adapt effectively to the 800's, bring back the 990's, lets see how good lorenzo and stoner go on them

I was gonna post this in the "Rule Change Poll" thread but maybe more apropos of this thread...

Who here thinks we would have different "alien" riders (excepting Rossi) if there had been no switch to 800s?

I, for one, believe the leader-boards of the last three seasons would have been very different without the switch. I honestly do not believe we would have the same four dominant riders if the 990s were still the standard...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 5 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was gonna post this in the "Rule Change Poll" thread but maybe more apropos of this thread...

Who here thinks we would have different "alien" riders (excepting Rossi) if there had been no switch to 800s?

I, for one, believe the leader-boards of the last three seasons would have been very different without the switch. I honestly do not believe we would have the same four dominant riders if the 990s were still the standard...

Have to agree with you there Mick,the good old brake,point and squirt (no ... jokes please )boys would be to the fore.

........and who are they?

I,m not so sure.

I think the cream will rise to the top in the long run.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Z4Kevo @ Nov 5 2009, 02:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Being a noob and not knowing much about the differences between SBK bikes and MotoGP bikes...what is going to be the biggest hurdle for Spies to overcome in order to be successful in GP?

Are the bikes THAT different? Is he going to have to make wholesale changes?

A MotoGP bike is lighter, smaller, use carbon disk brake (SBK - steel), rev higher, use pneumatic valves, more electronics and set up and tuning than a SBK bike. In term of engine ower, SBK may produce more power and torque due to its bigger CC. ( 4 cylinder machine). But MotoGP has more power to weight ratio due to its weight. MotoGP bike has higher entrance speed and late braking capability compare to SBK. Exit speed maybe similar but depend more on electronics and computer technology. In a similar track a MotoGP may be 2 to 3 seconds faster than a SBK bike..mostly due to carbon brake and tire..??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Z4Kevo @ Nov 4 2009, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Being a noob and not knowing much about the differences between SBK bikes and MotoGP bikes...what is going to be the biggest hurdle for Spies to overcome in order to be successful in GP?

Are the bikes THAT different? Is he going to have to make wholesale changes?

Are the bikes THAT different? NO

Is he going to have to make wholesale changes? NO

The fundamental design of a superbike and a prototype are almost identical. The only difference is that some GP bikes bolt the swingarm directly to the engine and most GP bikes use pneumatic valves. The bikes are substantially different in how they go about making performance. SBKs are heavy tractors with lots of torque. GP bikes are lightweight and high revving and they use sticky Bstones.

The bikes are different enough to require the riders to ride very different lines. Learning the lines is the hard part. If a rider can't get comfortable carrying speed through the corners, he will have problems getting results.

When Spies wild carded (word? lol) on the Suzuki GP, at the half way point in the races he kind of figured the thing out and was lapping near the same times as the leaders. If he can wrap his head around the bike sooner, we all may be surprised this weekend.


Having followed Spies rise through the AMA ranks, and now WSBK, I think he's a pool of calm and talent that can take on any series. He'll be a force in GP as well. I'm sure he'll be on a factory team either next year, or his Tech 3 bike will be the same as the rest, just to keep him from jumping teams.

I predict that either Rossi or Lorenzo will move teams, opening up a factory spot for Spies with Yamaha for 2011.