MotoGP back in action at Sepang Test

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 19 2010, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Almost out of popcorn

But don't let that stop you guys. Most of you are doing a fabulous job I must say.

Thats the spirit!

Its off season so nothing like a bit of entertainment

Wow ...... I actually think you have said something sensible

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 19 2010, 03:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ohhhhhhh......hit a bit of a nerve did we, funny how you can start something then not like what comes back.....unusual from you!!!! Must be some truth in there then

Anger management issues me thinks,

Highly entertaining though. I could call you a small minded patriachial tosser cocksucking moron as well, but I won't. We have to keep a standard here...and as you've proven it doesn't solve much, Anyway this is about the other stoner tosser
IF you think that this post is of "a standard worth aspiring to" (no, you are not the only one, but...) then god help you. A key concept not required in an aspirational post is, anything including "I could call you a &^%$^ but I won't." Especially when &^%$^ is spelt out in full insult mode.

Like others, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt when they discuss their abilities or inside knowledge. You say you have TV industry connections, IS200 says he knows Stoner, BarryM says he can slide a Duke. I presume that lying would be pointless - even though this is an anonymous forum, the truth has ways of getting out.

Why you (and a few others) feel the need to reduce this to insult slinging I do not understand. If we were in a bar, meeting up after a bike ride and got chatting, I wouldn't expect such insults if I said something that you disagreed with. In fact, with a group of bikers it'd be highly likely you'd need assistance to ride home after a conversation such as the ones you indulge in on here. Again, I am not saying that you are the worst or the only offender, but have a think about how your attitude might play out if aired in the real world.

I personally believe that the way you write on a forum should be little different to the way you approach real life.


BTW, you mean either parochial or patronising. You certainly don't mean patriarchal from your usage of the word.

So to add to the entertainment, just for you Babel ....... I shall make another "unbelievable" statement just to keep the discussion going ........

I was thinking about bikes going sideways today, and I figured that, in my life, I have probably taken corners sideways ( sliding ) in excess of 5,000 times ( probably a lot more but I shall err on the conservative side ) .
So for those of you that call ........ ..... there's some more fuel for you! ....... It matters not to me ...... matter of fact your "disbelief" only makes me feel good


Now in that 5,000 slides I can say that very few involved the back brake to initiate a slide, and those that did were on dirt ( mx only ... never in dirt track ) just to cut inside at the occasional corner. LIke my 15/16 year old was learning here:



I don't ever recall skidding the bike into a corner with the back brake, on a sealed surface, though I'm sure its happened? But extremely rarely.

I do recall the back coming round under heavy front braking and already leaning/heading into a corner, often ( sealed surface ).

I do recall the back skipping outwards under decelleration. Often very often. Just about every corner on a dirt track. And whenI'm not careful on sealed
Edit: This bit was way worse when 4 strokes came in, and I hated them with a vengence and thought I'd never convert . Two strokes still skipped out but the action of throwing the bike sideways was more critical I think. ( But Again I would never have deliberately thrown a bike sideways on a sealed surface, it just happened at times, but happens a lot on 4 strokes )

I do recall the back drifting out under accelleration ..... same as above.

SO there you go Arab, is that succinct enough





Oh and I'll add that I believe that sliding is also genetic:





Riders are about the same age, I believe, but 1 generation apart.

Same model bike ....... but year model 30 years apart

Nice pics Berry. Stupid question for you, why did you pick the number 73? My number is 33 cause my favorite number is 3 so why not double it for double the pleasure Plus it looks cool

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Feb 20 2010, 02:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nice pics Berry. Stupid question for you, why did you pick the number 73? My number is 33 cause my favorite number is 3 so why not double it for double the pleasure Plus it looks cool

73 was my number That bike was my brothers CR ( the 415 ), I was on a Yamaha at that time I believe?. I was not racing that weekend but he was a mechanical void so used to get me to come out and run it round a bit for him and get it ready, if I needed a break from study ( which was way to often ) .

The 73 ...... can't remember if it was allocated or I picked it now I can't think of why I would have picked it ? nothing about 73 sticks in my head as it being a favourite or anything ....... I think it was just available. Simple as that, but don't quote me on that .... I will probably remember why in a few days time I used to think 7 was lucky maybe it was something to do with that? maybe it was the closest thing I could get to 77 at the time? ...... it probably didn't really matter too much to me at the time probably the last thing I thought of, I think all I used to worry about was scrutineering

I kept the number for years though, and have even in the past run it for "old times sake" so I must have got attached to it, and it must have still been available ( Maybe its just a number nobody ever picks ) .

BarryTool official powerslide.net self fart sniffer of the year. Congratulations Barry!











Three pages of senseless ........, I thought that was my job.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 19 2010, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why you (and a few others) feel the need to reduce this to insult slinging I do not understand. If we were in a bar, meeting up after a bike ride and got chatting, I wouldn't expect such insults if I said something that you disagreed with. In fact, with a group of bikers it'd be highly likely you'd need assistance to ride home after a conversation such as the ones you indulge in on here. Again, I am not saying that you are the worst or the only offender, but have a think about how your attitude might play out if aired in the real world.

I personally believe that the way you write on a forum should be little different to the way you approach real life.
I freely admit that I fall into the 'few others category'. Guilty as charged m'lud. Michael's the resident voice of reason and equanimity on this forum when things get needlessly heated - nice post Yamaka. You should see if Austin wants to job share the deputy role. I feel like an admonished child, because you're quite right.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 19 2010, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So to add to the entertainment, just for you Babel ....... I shall make another "unbelievable" statement just to keep the discussion going ........

I was thinking about bikes going sideways today, and I figured that, in my life, I have probably taken corners sideways ( sliding ) in excess of 5,000 times ( probably a lot more but I shall err on the conservative side ) .
So for those of you that call ........ ..... there's some more fuel for you! ....... It matters not to me ...... matter of fact your "disbelief" only makes me feel good


Now in that 5,000 slides I can say that very few involved the back brake to initiate a slide, and those that did were on dirt ( mx only ... never in dirt track ) just to cut inside at the occasional corner. LIke my 15/16 year old was learning here:

I don't ever recall skidding the bike into a corner with the back brake, on a sealed surface, though I'm sure its happened? But extremely rarely.

I do recall the back coming round under heavy front braking and already leaning/heading into a corner, often ( sealed surface ).

I do recall the back skipping outwards under decelleration. Often very often. Just about every corner on a dirt track. And whenI'm not careful on sealed
Edit: This bit was way worse when 4 strokes came in, and I hated them with a vengence and thought I'd never convert . Two strokes still skipped out but the action of throwing the bike sideways was more critical I think. ( But Again I would never have deliberately thrown a bike sideways on a sealed surface, it just happened at times, but happens a lot on 4 strokes )

I do recall the back drifting out under accelleration ..... same as above.

SO there you go Arab, is that succinct enough
Barry, I'm not 'Torque'amada - it really makes very little difference to me. If you are skilled enough to slide a road bike slowing into a corner purely by body position and throttle control then you are a way better rider than me. I merely requested confirmation of what you meant.

Remember, we are not talking about powersliding here. You referred to your ability to slide a 749 Duc when slowing for a turn. Again I say, I was intrigued as to how you accomplished this using only body position and throttle control.

You are quite correct when you say that certain bikes are more amenable to the backing in technique. I have ridded a fiends 'tard for a day around Mallory, and owing to the strong engine braking of the 1 cylinder motor and the lower weight - even I was locking the back into the corner and was stepping it out as I gained confidence. The large amount of suspension travel also instilled confidence lessening the likelihood of a highside. As you say, a slipper clutch helps modulate the act and preventing the tire from going too slow and in the absence of one you have to feather it through the turn to get the right amount of rear tire speed. Obviously, the more you let it out the more it's going to step out.

I also agree about your earlier observation about elevating the rear under front braking, which would surely as you say suggest that the back brake is redundant. But as I will remind you again - at Honda, Nicky ran a 255mm rear disc and this was not just for show. Yes, he admits that this is partially psychological - he just likes to know it's there. But in interviews with Nori Haga, Craig Jones, Aaron Yates and Nicky himself they have all said that they relied upon a lot more rear brake than most road racers.

I remember Craig in particular, after a stunning win and final ride for Jack Valentine's Triumph British Supersport Team at Donington, commenting on his use of the back brake. In common with Nicky, when questioned on his black lines into corners, he explained that he initially induced the slide with the back brake. Where many riders will use solely the front, Craig would at first use a 60% front 40% rear combination/ratio in order to ensure that the rear tyre was grounded - but at the same time sufficiently light to lessen traction - and progressively increase the back brake. He would then turn in HOT and stomp it down 2-3 gears and dump the clutch, and then get on the front brakes hard which again lightens up the rear. As a result, due to heavy engine braking as Austin described, the rear tire is turning slower than the bike is traveling which in combination with it not having much weight on it due to heavy front braking will break loose. At that point he pitched it over, and aimed with the front while the rear swung around. The whole point being, as you know, that you can brake much later and dive right into your apex - a technique which the ghastly 800cc formula has eradicated. Nicky has intimated that during the 990 era, he too employed the rear brake in tandem with the front to induce the slide - and would then back the bike in on the engine braking. You rarely see such riders hopping the rear under braking, because they use a combination of both front and rear - as opposed to the front alone.

I have read and heard Nicky explaining this technique innumerable times - but according to Barry Machine......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 17 2010, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You have absolutely no idea

Road or dirt most slides are induced by weight distribution, and throttle control.

What a couch potato

Jabbing the brake or downshifting to induce a slide

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT. BARRY IS UNEQUIVOCALLY QUESTIONING THE FACT THAT SLIDES can BE ACHIEVED BY DROPPING THE COGS. Can I please have some assistance here!!! Is this just me? I repeat, according to Barry Machine - you do not downshift in order to back a bike /slide into a corner This is getting more ludicrous than the 'gyro' farce by each post.

I do admit, stepping on the rear brake and skidding into a turn is a quick way to highside - but as I asked you before - show me at what point I ever advocated 'jabbing' the back brake?. You never want to fully lock up the rear. The rear brake is extremely hard to modulate and therefore it's generally frowned upon. Of the many very skilled 'tard and club road racers I know, Of those that ride on the road, I know of very few who would be comfortable backing in on a public road, and I know of none who would presume to waste an afternoon tallying how many slides they've executed or would profess to be able to slide a road bike into a corner using only throttle control and body position.

You are obviously a very gifted rider Barry.

<span style="color:#FF0000Finally a simple question - and please for once, answer this yes or no. Forget the back brake for now...we've been there, Are you willing to accept that downshifting is a significant technique, and often, (particularly in Supermotard), the sole method used in sliding a bike into a corner on a sealed surface? Yes or No?

Thank you

I can't really comment on backing it into a corner on a race bike having never done it. But, I remember when Nicky was sliding and backing in the 990 in front of Dani Pedrosa one race I was thinking that it looked ridiculously out of place and that there was no way in hell his lap times were going to be good. I also thought that the tire wear compared to 250/800 style would have to be higher. Rossi and Stoner meanwhile way out front in PI last year with no one to play with were having a laugh which is totally different sliding around. Now I learned to ride from an old veteran of racing here in Canada, Micheal Mercier, and was told to forget I had a back brake which I did. I still don't even touch it at stop lights. I get away with it because of the twin of course not having explosive power that I need to control on acceleration and really even though I do have a slipper clutch I have way too much engine braking. And the cops around here anymore are more abundant than confetti at a wedding...

If you want to clearly see Rossi instigate a rear slide just look up a promotional video he did riding the R1. Without question he was squaring off the corner using the back brake to kick the rear end out...y'know google it you will find it.

And a lot has been said in a backhanded way about fans of the 800's here but the thing is this. This isn't a ....... dirt track racing derivative it is GP racing and for the most part you have to learn to corner...FAST. Not just power down the straight lock up both ends skid around the front end and power down the next straight. That is never going to be part of this class again if it ever was. That "style" if it can be called that will never work. You will get lapped doing that. Learn to corner and love it. That is what 15 million dollar motorcycles were meant to do.

Does anybody remember seeing Vermeulin, in his last year of WSBK, at one circuit, backing it in to a corner, but (going down a straight) coming from the inside of the track and drifting "crab-like" to the outside of the track, just before taking the corner. Amazing! I,ve NEVER seen anybody else do that- not Rossi, Doohan, Stoner etc. I wish somebody could find the footage and put a link up here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 20 2010, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I freely admit that I fall

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT. BARRY IS UNEQUIVOCALLY QUESTIONING THE FACT THAT SLIDES can BE ACHIEVED BY DROPPING THE COGS.

Thank you

Your words not mine

Not what I said.

Though I note you have changed your recipe a modicum

I suspect though you would be best trying it at least 20 times, and then write about it


Edit: I must ad that maybe putting it in words is hard for me ...... here's another way of putting my stance for you Arab.

The slide will happen regardless of whether you have downshifted or put you brake on, so long as your weight is in the right spot and you are ready for it to happen.

Jabbing on the back brake to do so is almost suicidal.

Downshifting deliberately just to induce the slide is pretty severe, and in most cases should be used in conjunction with the clutch to modulate the effect. Most guys don't continue the slide when it happens for very long ( I earlier refferred to this as a "skip out"). But a long controlled slide is not dependent on downshifting at all .

But again, that only applies to some corners ( an probably very few real sharp corners at the end of a high speed section), that PI slide, we were talking of, as an example, i would say, took no downshfting or brake action at all and had either occurred would have been suicidal.

But anyway its Saturday morning here, I'm not going to readon here any more on how to do a slide, I'm going to get on a bike and do a few more!

SO that will be at least 5,001 !

I suggest you do same Arab!
The " doing of" is ifinitely more pleasureable than the "talking of", however, I put it to you that the "talking of" does induce the want to be participating in the"doing of"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Feb 19 2010, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Does anybody remember seeing Vermeulin, in his last year of WSBK, at one circuit, backing it in to a corner, but (going down a straight) coming from the inside of the track and drifting "crab-like" to the outside of the track, just before taking the corner. Amazing! I,ve NEVER seen anybody else do that- not Rossi, Doohan, Stoner etc. I wish somebody could find the footage and put a link up here.


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Thanks Curve. I got it back to front; outside to inside, but still crazy stuff!

I think he was just pulling over to let the other guy by there wasn't he?

Its more an odd move cos we weren't expecting it. Certainly didn't seem to be what the other rider expected

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 20 2010, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>IF you think that this post is of "a standard worth aspiring to" (no, you are not the only one, but...) then god help you. A key concept not required in an aspirational post is, anything including "I could call you a &^%$^ but I won't." Especially when &^%$^ is spelt out in full insult mode.

Like others, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt when they discuss their abilities or inside knowledge. You say you have TV industry connections, IS200 says he knows Stoner, BarryM says he can slide a Duke. I presume that lying would be pointless - even though this is an anonymous forum, the truth has ways of getting out.

Why you (and a few others) feel the need to reduce this to insult slinging I do not understand. If we were in a bar, meeting up after a bike ride and got chatting, I wouldn't expect such insults if I said something that you disagreed with. In fact, with a group of bikers it'd be highly likely you'd need assistance to ride home after a conversation such as the ones you indulge in on here. Again, I am not saying that you are the worst or the only offender, but have a think about how your attitude might play out if aired in the real world.

I personally believe that the way you write on a forum should be little different to the way you approach real life.


BTW, you mean either parochial or patronising. You certainly don't mean patriarchal from your usage of the word.
Well, if you didn't already realize this forum has many sides.

I didn't start this particular fire, and albeit it did go a little too far and your right there. But not everyone who supports motogp is right into how many mms of clearance the valves have or what particular linked adjustment was made to gain whatever. This is also about entertainment. We hang .... on each other quite regularly,

And Mick, I would expect someone of your intellect to gather that a person who is as heavily opinionated, over emotive, sensationalizing and slightly bias such as me couldn't be involved in television?

now if it was in a bar no doubt the conversation would be similar, but who would walk out or not would depend on a great many things.....

I use patriotic references frequently to highlight it's potential for influencing opinion over logic, all in all this is a pretty benine detraction, which I didn't make, compared to .......!!
W
If we all just happily got on, well it wouldn't be racing would it!!
As bernie eccelstein said......

Its a radical way of covering your line into a corner...........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Feb 20 2010, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Does anybody remember seeing Vermeulin, in his last year of WSBK, at one circuit, backing it in to a corner, but (going down a straight) coming from the inside of the track and drifting "crab-like" to the outside of the track, just before taking the corner. Amazing! I,ve NEVER seen anybody else do that- not Rossi, Doohan, Stoner etc. I wish somebody could find the footage and put a link up here.
I remeber it well....amazing stuff, nearly pipped Troy corser to the title too. Some of the best sideways action both in and out of corners in 2005 wsbk before the tc geeks gained more influence

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 20 2010, 01:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I didn't start this particular fire ........

And Mick, I would expect someone of your intellect to gather that a person who is as heavily opinionated, over emotive, sensationalizing and slightly bias such as me couldn't be involved in television?
I actually agree that you didn't start this fire (although you possibly did add some petrol to it ), and wasn't being sarcastic in saying that I gave you the benefit of the doubt about your TV industry connections; I theoretically at least have some connections with Foxtel myself, but influential as the person I know may be I don't think I could get them to change Foxtel's approach to bike racing broadcasting. I think (not from any inside knowledge) Foxtel may not have any choice because of the anti-siphoning rules some aspects of which are counter-productive allowing the free-to-air channels to effectively stockpile sporting events; as I said in the other thread I share your fear concerning ONE/TEN'S policy if other sporting events clash with motogp.

As far as the sliding goes I can see your point of view in terms of it being made into a rossi v stoner thing as happens to so many threads. I think gs fan's point is very salient; I am sure rossi can powerslide in a controlled manner as well or better than anyone but has no reason to do so in races at present having spent years of time and effort developing and setting up a bike which handles beautifully.

Last time we had the powersliding discussion it mainly concerned garry mccoy and the 990s, and stoner hardly came up, and I don't recall him being particularly noteable for sliding the LCR 990 honda. I stand to be corrected by the race riders on here, but it does seem to me that both mccoy and stoner (on the screamer ducati anyway) were doing something unusual which allowed them to extract something extra from the bikes (particularly mccoy who was on something fairly sub-standard) and that making the bike move or allowing it to do so had something to do with their methods; maybe they just pushed closer to the edge than others causing slides which they were good at saving (not that garry was consistently good at this unfortunately). Certainly stoner reputedly had no trouble keeping the ultra-hard bridgestones warm while this was apparently a problem for others. Whether sliding/getting the bike moving going into corners enables stoner to set-up better and overcome possible handling limitations of the ducati compared to other bikes as some have theorized is beyond my knowledge.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 20 2010, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I actually agree that you didn't start this fire (although you possibly did add some petrol to it ), and wasn't being sarcastic in saying that I gave you the benefit of the doubt about your TV industry connections; I theoretically at least have some connections with Foxtel myself, but influential as the person I know may be I don't think I could get them to change Foxtel's approach to bike racing broadcasting. I think (not from any inside knowledge) Foxtel may not have any choice because of the anti-siphoning rules some aspects of which are counter-productive allowing the free-to-air channels to effectively stockpile sporting events; as I said in the other thread I share your fear concerning ONE/TEN'S policy if other sporting events clash with motogp.

As far as the sliding goes I can see your point of view in terms of it being made into a rossi v stoner thing as happens to so many threads. I think gs fan's point is very salient; I am sure rossi can powerslide in a controlled manner as well or better than anyone but has no reason to do so in races at present having spent years of time and effort developing and setting up a bike which handles beautifully.

Last time we had the powersliding discussion it mainly concerned garry mccoy and the 990s and stoner hardly came up, and I don't recall him being particularly noteable for sliding the LCR 990 honda. I stand to be corrected by the race-riders on here, but it does seem to me that both mccoy and stoner (on the screamer ducati anyway) were doing something unusual which allowed them to extract something extra from the bikes (particularly mccoy who was on something fairly sub-standard) and that making the bike move or allowing it to do so had something to do with their methods; maybe they just pushed closer to the edge than others causing slides which they were good at saving (not that garry was consistently good at this unfortunately). Certainly stoner reputedly had no trouble keeping the ultra-hard bridgestones warm while this was apparently a problem for others. Whether sliding/getting the bike moving going into corners enables stoner to set-up better and overcome possible handling limitations of the ducati compared to other bikes as some have theorized is beyond my knowledge.
Yes indeed, after a little digging the prognosis isn't good for us in oz as far a regular live broadcasts of motogp, the website membership is the only way to go. Onehds committment to higher rating and larger budget sponsor dollars will see motogp continually moved to the early hours of the morning, and spoiling our once great Sunday nights......not really foxtels fault I agree, however they didn't fight too hard to keep it from what I can gather.

mr squiggle was on another planet with his powerslides on the Yamaha stroker, which was inferior at the time I agree. I even remember mickd remarking that gaz was doing it so much it was seriously hindering his lap times, still managed some great wins though!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 20 2010, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But anyway its Saturday morning here, I'm not going to readon here any more on how to do a slide, I'm going to get on a bike and do a few more!

SO that will be at least 5,001 !

I suggest you do same Arab!
The " doing of" is ifinitely more pleasureable than the "talking of", however, I put it to you that the "talking of" does induce the want to be participating in the"doing of"
Why don't you just plunder some more images from photobucket again - it's easier

You couldn't do it could you? All it needed was a simple yes or no.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 20 2010, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your words not mine
Not what I said.
Really?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 18 2010, 02:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Brakes to initiate a slide

I provided a reasoned account explaining the role the back brake plays in inducing a slide, with reference to several racers. I also keep pointing out to you that Nicky deployed a 255mm rear disc for this purpose - Thinking about this, there was even a Julian Ryder technical feature explaining this on Eurosport some years ago. Do you now acknowledge that the rear brake has been, and in the case of WSBk, still is a common tool used to elicit a slide into a corner, and an aid to the process of backing in? Yes or no?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 20 2010, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The slide will happen regardless of whether you have downshifted or put you brake on, so long as your weight is in the right spot and you are ready for it to happen.

Jabbing on the back brake to do so is almost suicidal.

Do you have learning difficulties? You don't see to retain anything anyone else says over that which you seek to object to. FOR THE THIRD TIME, SHOW ME WHERE I MENTION "JABBING THE BACK BRAKE?" At what point did I say this?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 20 2010, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Downshifting deliberately just to induce the slide is pretty severe, and in most cases should be used in conjunction with the clutch to modulate the effect. Most guys don't continue the slide when it happens for very long ( I earlier refferred to this as a "skip out"). But a long controlled slide is not dependent on downshifting at all .

But again, that only applies to some corners ( an probably very few real sharp corners at the end of a high speed section), that PI slide, we were talking of, as an example, i would say, took no downshfting or brake action at all and had either occurred would have been suicidal.
Astonishing. A long controlled slide on the dirt or out of a corner, or even around a long high speed corner is not dependent upon the downshift but body position and throttle - I agree. But Barry, you were not talking about Powerslides around constant radius bends and corners. We are talking about slowing for a corner because that is what you said:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 16 2010, 02:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Matter of fact I have done them with ease on a 749S and Duc.just slowing into corners, and the 1098/1198 is even better than that for it.

In the case of very high speed turns, backing in would be not only counter productive, but as you say, suicidal. You originally spoke of sliding your 749 when slowing for corners. I assumed that you were backing it in which is achieved through a combination of as you quite correctly say, feeding the clutch, but obviously in conjunction with the downshift and with initial assistance of the rear brake.

I'm desperately trying to decipher what you mean, and give you the benefit of the doubt by ascribing meaning to your increasingly erratic claims. So let's go: It would indeed seem that you were alluding to higher speed entries, and that by simply applying the correct body position and throttle control, the bike will slide 'JUST SLOWING INTO' corners. Not 'a corner' - but 'corners'. So you imply that this astonishing talent that you have will work:
1/ Without the downshift to enable it
2/ Without the rear brake to enable it
3/ Into any given corner
4/ And that actually, a torquey Ducati twin will take care of this itself:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 16 2010, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well the 749 and the 1098 both back into corners on their own

...and without a downshift Berry?

Regarding the use of sliding in general. I originally said this:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 16 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>it is then down to personal style and discretion as to the degree that they choose to employ this in their racing.

Just as some will choose to back a bike in, powerslide, or more simply in their chosen use of the back brake, or as you say dependent on the corner.

Are you familiar with the way BBoz weaves and snakes on the approach to the a corner? If Ben was a proponent of solely the front brake, you wouldn't see this style, and you'd more likely see elevation of the rear wheel.

For a more extreme example, slowing into a corner - although not strictly backing it in in spite of the title........

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No downshift or back brake going on there then Berry? I concede it's a tad uncontrolled at times, but I used it as an extreme example because it graphically demonstrates what's going on in real backing in. The late Craig Jones would frequently deposit a thirty to forty yard trail of rubber in his wake from deploying the same techniques in a far more controlled measured way. The results were sublime, but when he wanted them to be, seemingly on the edge to upset those behind him.

Let's use Curve's post of Chris Vermeullen drift as an example..and it's a great one because it's on the approach and slowing into the corner.....

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What is this if it's not achieved through dropping down several gears and feeding the clutch to control the slide - very possibly augmented by a large helping of the back brake.

Your explanation then Berry?
You don't follow Superbikes do you?

And lastly that great much seen footage of Xuas on the hypermotard - Some great backing in shots, all induced by the rider using the downshift on the approach and into the turn.

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In your inevitable childish reply to this why not try:

1/ Not inserting 15,000 emotions in your post for once
2/ A simple yes or no where required
3/ Concentrate on being less contradictory and contribute something constructive
4/ Find and quote where I actually mention or advocate 'jabbing the back brake'

Did you get out and slide a bike today Arab?

I did.


Probably took a load less effort too than what you seem to have composed there


Some really great interpretation there too, I'm amazed at how much you decipher from watching those vids

Well if your interpretations are right ......... go and try them