MotoGP back in action at Sepang Test

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 22 2010, 04:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>5/ And you do this with ease simply from closing the throttle and positioning your body?

Thats what I originally indicated, and stick too.

You can blab on all you like, however in my experience, jabbing, applying, or any other manipulations of the rear brake, or even downshifting are not critical factors in inducing a slide.

As I suspect is the case with the original slide we were talking about here shows. ( How do you think that slide is occurring? Stoners PI slide )

Sure you can induce a slide with either, but as I have said they are by no means "the usual" methods. Matter of fact the usual resulting slide from braking or downshifting is what one attempts to avoid "usually", although as I have already indicated there are some instances where it is handy to rapidly change the direction of the bike ( but not at high speed )

22, I see you have karts, Have you ridden a non braked and no geared kart? Now could you tell us if you think they don't slide? ...... Pretty simillar physics except on a bike you have a lot more scope with weight distribution.

I have said that I disagree with your statement that the:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 17 2010, 07:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sliding a bike into a corner is usually accomplished via the back brake.

I know the word "usual" is broad, however in my experience, I would change that word to "unusual", as I do not feel it is the main inducement of a slide and indeed the acts of rear braking and downshifting are missing from a lot of slides we see occur, on dirt or road, and especialy in MGP. You haven't even mentioned slipping the clutch as part of another way of inducing a slide be it backing in or powering out. Though again its a pretty drastic manouver on road surface, its a pretty regular practice in the dirt.

You disagree ....... good on you.

I may not do what Nicky Hayden does, nor Craig ..., nor Ben B. But I do know I disagree strongly with your statement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Feb 22 2010, 06:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Finally I would also like to caution members on not practicing lurid non-mechanically-induced deceleration slides in the hard-surf of their local beach... No amount of hosing down removes all the sand and salt from your 1098, R1, GSXR... Not to mention what a complete .... you'd look like with your boots and leathers on on the beach!!



We did this with dirt bikes ( don't think I'd take a sportsbike, get real )

( I think something here worth adding, I'm somewhat surprised by how much emphasis some folk put in the difference between dirt and road. I personally don't think its that great in the end to me they feel/ act pretty simillar however as the friction of the surface goes up ....... so do the speeds. ) ( probably another discussion worthy of 100 pages but there you go ..... I said it )


However yes you are right its a pretty corrosive business.

End of ride bikes get a gerni'd

soapy washed ( truck wash etc. )

gerni again.

Kerosine spray and brush and wiper clean

gerni again

then you pull off chains etc. and clean and lube them.

And a good lube go over the bike.


Sure its a hassle ....... but it really is worth it ...... I actually would recommend it. However there is another real drawback, sand bar flats in a real good flat large area with just the right amount of water on them don't occur regularly well not round here anyway.

Regarding the boots and gear ...... no worse than a bad day at an MX track , in fact your boots and gear got a hell of a good clean.

Bikes on snow? is it really that bad ( we don't get much here )? Not saying it isn't.
But I guess that suggestion went along with a hope that folk get the idea that sometimes "play" can give you skills that may come in handy in "real" situations. Sliding a bike around on algae certaily taught me alot about limits, motions, throttle control, braking control, expected in a slide.
The risks you have to weigh up

I'd go with this as being a darn good description:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=101&Set=

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 21 2010, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1/ Why did Nicky claim that the 255mm disc he used on the 990 RC311V Honda was so that he could slide the bike into turns?

I don't know where you are getting this info on Hayden trying to back it inot corners with the brake but I did find this:

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/1907/nic...ns-new-footpegs

and this:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sp...brake-solution/

can't find a thing on this big rear disc

are you sure you've read it?

cos its kinda against what those two articles say

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 22 2010, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can blab on all you like, however in my experience, jabbing, applying, or any other manipulations of the rear brake, or even downshifting are not critical factors in inducing a slide.

As I suspect is the case with the original slide we were talking about here shows. ( How do you think that slide is occurring? Stoners PI slide )
As I said in my previous post - the original slide we were talking about carried out by Stoner is a powerslide, and this is occuring by throttle control and body position, so it is irrelevant. You then talked of sliding when slowing into corners - backing a bike in, which is the subject under discussion here. As I keep saying the rear brake and the downshift are fundamental to inducing a slide when slowing for a corner under such circumstances. You insist that they are not, and that sliding a bike when slowing on the approach to a corner is merely achieved by shutting the throttle. It is this last sentence which I am questioning.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 22 2010, 03:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd go with this as being a darn good description:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=101&Set=
A darn good description of what? This is an article chiefly discussing and I quote, 'how to handle a rear-wheel slide if you have not stopped its spin'. As I said, backing in does not involce spinning. This article is cautioning road riders not to jam on the back brake in a slide situation - 'when the rear wheel is spinning' or has broken grip, and adding further that such use of the back brake upsets stability. Conversely, when slowing for a corner and backing in on the approach, not only does a slight application of the rear aid stability, it can also be deployed to control the slide. The same author would doubtless advise any road rider of the same level of experience who own a bike with a propensity to 'inadvertently slide into corners' when the throttle is shut, to either get the thing condemned or exorcised by a Priest.

This link is nothing to do with backing a motorcycle in, which is a racing technique largely reserved for the track, and the technique under discussion here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 22 2010, 06:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't know where you are getting this info on Hayden trying to back it inot corners with the brake but I did find this:

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/1907/nic...ns-new-footpegs

and this:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sp...brake-solution/

can't find a thing on this big rear disc

are you sure you've read it?

cos its kinda against what those two articles say
It's not - on the contrary, it is saying that Nicky used too much back brake. It confirms that Nicky has exported Superbike and dirt track techniques to GP - WHICH INVOLVE THE BACK BRAKE I quote:

'Hayden has often been troubled by rear brake issues due to his dirt track background and when he was in Repsol Honda they used to fit a rubber band to stop him from applying so much pressure on the rear brake. '

Confirmation that Nicky utilised the back brake not only in dirt track but also GP. As GS fan posted:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 19 2010, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I remember when Nicky was sliding and backing in the 990 in front of Dani Pedrosa one race I was thinking that it looked ridiculously out of place and that there was no way in hell his lap times were going to be good. I also thought that the tire wear compared to 250/800 style would have to be higher.

So in GP, even in the era of the 990's it was realised Nicky's sliding was definitely becoming detrimental to his lap times.

And from the second article:

'Hayden’s dirt track background meant he spent a lot of time using the rear brake when he first arrived in MotoGP, and he used it so much that his Repsol Honda team used to fit a big rubber band on it to stop him putting so much pressure on the rear brake'.

Again irrefutable confirmation that not only is the rear brake a crucial tool at the disposal of the flat tracker, (which you have previously ridiculed, and to come full circle - as I mentioned in my previous post, why does the TZ750 flat tracker have no front brake and one giant rear disc?) also that he was readily employing it on the 990 to back it in. In GP, although not Superbike, this is an outmoded practice - I accept that. This over zealous usage was curtailed by the rubber band - but not eliminated because as both articles clearly illustrate the rubber band was fitted to reduce pressure on the rear brake - not to completely prevent him from using it. In all honesty I have no idea whether he continues to run with a 255mm rear disc - as I said the larger size compared to Dani's 200mm disc was as much psychological as anything else.

What you have provided here Barry is not only affirmation that application of the rear brake is intrinsic to dirt track, but also reference to the fact that Nicky CONTINUED to use this on a Moto GP machine - and the sheer extent to which he did that. With the advent of the 800cc formula this technique is all but redundant. But as I recollect, I think his overuse of the back brake was also an issue on the 990's and that the rubber band may well have been stuck on then. As Nicky has said, on the 990's he used the rear brake to initialise a slide and stabilise corner entry - which at his level of skill is legitimate practice.

Thank you for providing the links and replying in a more constructive manner though. I will do my best to provide a link evidencing Nicky's rear disc on the RCV211v. It's something I remember clearly from the time, both in magazines, from a technical feature on Eurosport, and from interviews with Nicky himself.

There you go Barry, that didn't take long. Found this info on Moto GP brakes and some spec info from '08 on the RCV212V - even better!! Precisely as I thought..read the last two paragraphs - and that last sentence is a gem:

'With the rear brake, riders have their own individual preferences, depending on how aggressively they use the rear brake. Dani Pedrosa, for example, runs a 200mm disc at the rear, while Nicky Hayden uses a 255mm disc.'

'This is, perhaps, a reflection of how the two riders have progressed through the ranks over the years. Pedrosa has come up from 125s and then 250s, while Hayden is used to American dirt track racing, where bikes don’t have brakes at the front wheel…!'

So it would appear that Nicky continued to run the 255mm disc after the demise of the 990's, whereas I speculated this was just particular to the 990.

Also, it gives another acknowledgement to the importance of the rear brake in flat tracking.

Nicky's Rear Disc

Do people actually read this thread? I lost interest - so many lines, so many big words.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Feb 23 2010, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do people actually read this thread? I lost interest - so many lines, so many big words.

I agree. Got so bored of Arrab and BM arguing over the size of their member's.

Pigeon you need to start a new thread for Sepang Test 2.

I'm amused...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Feb 23 2010, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree. Got so bored of Arrab and BM arguing over the size of their member's.

Pigeon you need to start a new thread for Sepang Test 2.
I can fully sympathise, and I apologised on an earlier post, and I apologise now. This is the nature of a forum sometimes I'm afraid, and such is the nature of BM.

Funny, the words pot kettle and black immediately spring to mind. TP, shall we just overlook your tedious, titanic, truncated battles with Talpa over the same Stoner v's Rossi diatribe? You're one of the worst offenders on here for going off at a tangent - and these have not only hijacked threads, but have rambled on for aeons. As for 'Son', have a quick look at some of his previous contributions on previous threads and tell me that they're always constructive.

Mick is amused not only at members comparing their members, but because he remembers the sprawling car crash of a thread that was the great gyro debate, which made an Icelandic Saga spanning generations look like a one liner.

Take your point though. It's like the Korean conflict - there was never officially a truce, so North and South Korea are still technically at war.

Barry - in the interest of the other members on here - If only for my own sanity.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 24 2010, 05:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can fully sympathise, and I apologised on an earlier post, and I apologise now. This is the nature of a forum sometimes I'm afraid, and such is the nature of BM.

Funny, the words pot kettle and black immediately spring to mind. TP, shall we just overlook your tedious, titanic, truncated battles with Talpa over the same Stoner v's Rossi diatribe? You're one of the worst offenders on here for going off at a tangent - and these have not only hijacked threads, but have rambled on for aeons. As for 'Son', have a quick look at some of his previous contributions on previous threads and tell me that they're always constructive.

Mick is amused not only at members comparing their members, but because he remembers the sprawling car crash of a thread that was the great gyro debate, which made an Icelandic Saga spanning generations look like a one liner.

Take your point though. It's like the Korean conflict - there was never officially a truce, so North and South Korea are still technically at war.

Barry - in the interest of the other members on here - If only for my own sanity.

Arrab, The debate was below you as you normally contribute a lot of wisdom.

I don't feel I intentionally drift of topic but I take your note on my ongoing battle with Talpa. It is just so hard because the guy is so delusional. But hey, there I go again!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 23 2010, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can fully sympathise, and I apologised on an earlier post, and I apologise now. This is the nature of a forum sometimes I'm afraid, and such is the nature of BM.

Funny, the words pot kettle and black immediately spring to mind. TP, shall we just overlook your tedious, titanic, truncated battles with Talpa over the same Stoner v's Rossi diatribe? You're one of the worst offenders on here for going off at a tangent - and these have not only hijacked threads, but have rambled on for aeons. As for 'Son', have a quick look at some of his previous contributions on previous threads and tell me that they're always constructive.

Mick is amused not only at members comparing their members, but because he remembers the sprawling car crash of a thread that was the great gyro debate, which made an Icelandic Saga spanning generations look like a one liner.

Take your point though. It's like the Korean conflict - there was never officially a truce, so North and South Korea are still technically at war.

Barry - in the interest of the other members on here - If only for my own sanity.

Screw that I come to this forum to hear what's on people's mind.


And this will not help matters... Nicky slides