MotoGP: 2016 Round 06 - Gran Premio d'Italia TIM (SPOILERS)

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These guys have raced against each other half their lives and a pecking order has been established. Its like Lin Jarvis said the other day, the Tech 3 bike is a factory bike. Its is a smidge less in performance, meaning a special rider should be able to bring it home 4-5 seconds off the leaders, not 25 to 30 seconds like Pol.. Marquez, Lorenzo, Rossi and their crews are worth at least 3/4 that, Certain guys can just put it together day after day, race after race, lap after lap, most cant. Some like Vinales, Dovi and Ianonne can get a lot of it right, but are always missing something and for them to win it has to fall in their laps. Then you have the rest of the field who is nothing but filler, replaceable by dozens of other riders . If you put Lorenzo, Rossi, and their crews on Tech 3 machines with Pol and Bradley on the factory machines, Lorenzo and Rossi would still beat them handily.
 
Potential, coulda, shoulda. Like they said, if my aunt has a .... then she would be my uncle.

Testing? Lol. If you honestly think what you said then you are delusional. Rossi tried multiple times at turned 1 and FAILED!! But hey if that makes you feel better.

The way Lorenzo defended his positions against Rossi in the early stages and against Marquez late in the race, one could say he was determined to win in enemy's territory. He wants to make sure the rossi fans at the track go home and cry in their yellow pillows last night, and he succeeded judging by his celebration in parc femme. I can't tell what that celebration meant. His celebration on the podium basically tell the yellow idiots there, fk you all !!

Testing is a normal tactics used in racing, not only by Rossi. You also can use it to make your opponent believe you are going to try mainly at that corner, then will actually try more seriously somewhere else. If you think that Rossi could never pass Lorenzo, that's your own delusion... you surely have the right to have one. ;)
 
So just saying something pretty obvious to any unbiased watcher like "Rossi could have won" is ignorance and speculation, but you 1) predicting an hypothetical 3 men battle (when in fact nobody can tell if there even would have been one; IMO very unlikely; I think Marquez, had Rossi stayed in the race, would have fought only one of the two Yamahas anyway, with the other blue bike finishing first) and 2) adding to that the "" very possible"" psycho-novel element of Rossi going nuts and losing it with the presence of Marquez shadow hanging over his shoulder is... objective analysis??

You're just a bopper in reverse.
Arguing which hypothetical postulation is worse is fairly desperate.
 
Testing is a normal tactics used in racing, not only by Rossi. You also can use it to make your opponent believe you are going to try mainly at that corner, then will actually try more seriously somewhere else. If you think that Rossi could never pass Lorenzo, that's your own delusion... you surely have the right to have one. ;)
JL won, and rode a faultless race. End of story.
 
You'd know a lot about that, given you have quit all of your previous alias'

Multiple personality disorder is nothing to joke about deuces.

I think this guy is real. Probably one of the ..... that got banned during the kick. I think it was very rude of him to imply that all Aussies are quitters just because one of them is. Not cool at all. :rolleyes:
 
How's it going JK?
Haha
Years ago a member here suggested that I create a Bopper alias just to mess with people. My immediate reaction was .... no. I couldnt even pretend to like like him. For the record I equally dislike Stoner and Rossi. It seems around here you must love one to hate the other.
If you've noticed I have backed off Stoner because he's done an gone and only relevant for the what if and historical debates. Besides how many time can you tell the same jokes, though admittedly I find 9twats mocking of him funny. He's reminiscent of that guy cuckoo( i think it was cuckoo )
I looked on Stoners twitter after his Vale blast and I must say if one is not envious of his lifestyle then they surely are dead to the world.
That shot of him during therace did puzzle me. My initial thought was ....... quit or race. What are you doing sitting in a box Casey
 
J4rn0, there are days when I have to admire your devotion to ignorance.

I've already stated in the past here, that while no fan of Rossi, I would rather see him lose a straight fight on the track to Lorenzo, Marquez, or whomever else, because it prevents this sour grapes .... from his fans, where you say there'd be conspiracy theories about Lorenzo's engine going had the situation been the inverse. If the situation had been reversed, I'd be questioning what led to Yamaha's decision to not swap or replace the engine in light of Rossi's engine blowing up in the morning warm-up in that hypothetical scenario. Obviously whatever the root cause of the engine failure for Lorenzo, it was not concerning enough for Yamaha to feel it warranted a change for Rossi too.

Particularly bothersome with your post is this insistence that Rossi was just testing Lorenzo coming down into San Donato. You accuse the non-Rossi fans of semi-exhultation over Rossi's engine failure, yet here you are pulling the classic Rossi bopper tactic of disparaging what Lorenzo was doing during the laps Rossi was out there; it can't be possible Lorenzo was outbraking Rossi, Rossi had something in reserve. Lorenzo talked about working on setting up the brakes on the M1 specifically to go deeper into the corners, and San Donato in particular since whoever can brake latest there has a huge advantage. Now, I do think the possibility exists that Rossi may have gotten past Lorenzo, but Lorenzo was also as usual a man on a mission. To deny Rossi a victory in front of his home crowd would have been a huge bonus for Jorge, or even Marc for that matter. We do not know how that race unfolds in the latter third if Rossi is still out there, and it is very possible Marquez in the mix hurts Rossi. Either way Lorenzo's performance was stellar and certainly the win was aided by the Honda's acceleration woes...but to win, he had to be there at the very end.

You say Lorenzo was "outbraking" Rossi, and that says a lot about your own delusion. You outbrake someone when you pass him on the brakes; if you resist an attempted pass on the brakes, as Lorenzo did, you are braking as well as you opponent -- not "outbraking" him.

About Lorenzo I can say he has nerves of steel, but we knew that. He is difficult to beat. His race was impeccable. This said, his pace in the race arounf the 48 was good but not impressive, proof is that he had to fight Marquez in the end. I remain with my impression that Rossi had a concrete chance of beating both of them, and I don't say this of Rossi every time.
 
Haha
Years ago a member here suggested that I create a Bopper alias just to mess with people. My immediate reaction was .... no. I couldnt even pretend to like like him. For the record I equally dislike Stoner and Rossi. It seems around here you must love one to hate the other.
If you've noticed I have backed off Stoner because he's done an gone and only relevant for the what if and historical debates. Besides how many time can you tell the same jokes, though admittedly I find 9twats mocking of him funny. He's reminiscent of that guy cuckoo( i think it was cuckoo )
I looked on Stoners twitter after his Vale blast and I must say if one is not envious of his lifestyle then they surely are dead to the world.
That shot of him during therace did puzzle me. My initial thought was ....... quit or race. What are you doing sitting in a box Casey

I will take your word for it then. Call it faith in human nature, but I thought the poster concerned had to be engaging in parody and still suspect this.
 
Luckily it was Rossi's engine going up in smoke during the race, and not Lorenzo's, otherwise we'd be hearing conspiracy theorems all over this place. We are still treated to semi-suppressed exultation, but that is to be expected whenever Rossi fails to perform for whatever reason.

I honestly think that Rossi was the only one of the top three with the potential to build a half second advantage on the other two. He was jus testing Lorenzo at the San Donato, where Jorge was also great on the brakes resisting those attempts -- but it seemed he had a little bit more in reserve. When he went wide it was because he made a mistake with the gears, not because he was trying hard. I know this is a moot point to debate now, but it was my impression until his engine blew up.

The last lap battle between Lorenzo and Marquez repayed all true Italian lovers of the sport of the Rossi disappointment, while those who left early were evidently the fans borrowed from football. It's normal behavior in the stadiums to leave when your team is irrimediably losing. Same for the TV audience. I agree this kind of fans are a nuisance, but they do buy tickets and subscriptions.

Dovi and Iannone both showed good things, but none of them would have been on the podium had Rossi stayed in contention. Ducati looks good, and Suzuki also. Both could even be considered better than the current Honda. Iannone and Vinales will be able to fight the likes of Lorenzo, Rossi, Marquez and Pedrosa, more and more.

Dont look at me, i openly exulted. For what that .......... has put the sport through the last 7 months, i could not care less if he blew up every race.



You simply dont know that, a number of things could have happened, like Rossi finally completely running off track trying to pass Lorenzo. I never thought i would say it, but Lorenzo was beating Rossi on the brakes something fierce.
 
Not to be a prick about it, but were that the case why would Yamaha sign Vinales, Suzuki bank on Ianonne etc

The talent is there, the question is whether the equipment that they are provided with will enable these talents to come to the fore, or if they will be hindered by the equipment

I may well be laughed at but IMO, there is plenty of similar talent around that will challenge these guys, but the critical piece of the puzzle is the equipment as with so few competitive rides, it restricts the ability of the talent to shine.

They are the fastest options available at this time. While both are really good riders, they are not in the same airspace as Lorenzo and Marquez
 
Agree. Let's close this place down. ;)
I have a genuine philosophical objection to "what might have beens" and believe in giving every race and title winner including Rossi full credit for all wins and titles; while I have my suspicions about tyre shenanigans in 2008 I think Yamaha upgraded their bike, and that Rossi rode superbly and would have won the title anyway btw.

I might except a certain 250 title win by Capirossi from the above come to think of it.
 
So just saying something pretty obvious to any unbiased watcher like "Rossi could have won" is ignorance and speculation, but you 1) predicting an hypothetical 3 men battle (when in fact nobody can tell if there even would have been one; IMO very unlikely; I think Marquez, had Rossi stayed in the race, would have fought only one of the two Yamahas anyway, with the other blue bike finishing first) and 2) adding to that the "" very possible"" psycho-novel element of Rossi going nuts and losing it with the presence of Marquez shadow hanging over his shoulder is... objective analysis??

You're just a bopper in reverse.

No, what the problem is, is that people are already claiming Rossi would have gotten past Lorenzo and would have won the race if not for the engine blowing up. Rossi fans are desperate to speculate about a probable and assured victory as a way to hide their disappointment. I merely am pointing out that to assume Rossi wins, also ignores whether MM is in the running with Rossi and/or Lorenzo at the very end. The assumption is Rossi gets past, and starts pulling away from Lorenzo and that's it.

Good to see you're another one who has reading difficulties. I never said anything about Rossi going nuts if MM is behind him. There's a much simpler thing to it; Rossi now has to spend time defending his position. Stop making .... up.
 
But how do you (and I) know that the four you name are so superior in talent unless the others have access to the same equipment (and equipment includes teams etc) with which to try to display THEIR talent?

It isn't that long ago that people wondered why a certain rider was elevated to the MotoGP class after a few wins in the then 250cc class following his 125cc career. There were no champion ships in the lower class and his first year in the main class resulted in him earning a somewhat condescending nickname due to a large number of trips to the gravel and medical units. The following year he was given a factory bike that would allow him to show his talents and show those talents he did.

He was not the first choice for that factory ride, nor the second choice and yet the rest is history in what he could achieve because he got an opportunity on top flight equipment.

You may have the greatest golfer in the world, but if he does not have clubs than can he be that great a golfer?

Stoner was not an unknown. It was well known throughout the paddock that he was taking it to Pedrosa on inferior 250 equipment, then his performance on an underfunded satellite machine with 2nd tier tires .His problem was his passport, not to mention being vetoed from a factory Yamaha seat by you know who because You know who saw the talent as well. These things work themselves out, the greats will find their way to the best bikes.
 
I have a genuine philosophical objection to "what might have beens" and believe in giving every race and title winner including Rossi full credit for all wins and titles; while I have my suspicions about tyre shenanigans in 2008 I think Yamaha upgraded their bike, and that Rossi rode superbly and would have won the title anyway btw.

I might except a certain 250 title win by Capirossi from the above come to think of it.

The "might have been" are moot, agree. But Lorenzo's pace in the race was not irresisitible, and that is a fact that leaves more room for regret on Rossi's part. Other times I have been ready to say that Rossi would not have won against a really fast Lorenzo anyway, when for instance he started from 3rd row; but yesterday Lorenzo was not able to build any gap.
 
You say Lorenzo was "outbraking" Rossi, and that says a lot about your own delusion. You outbrake someone when you pass him on the brakes; if you resist an attempted pass on the brakes, as Lorenzo did, you are braking as well as you opponent -- not "outbraking" him.

About Lorenzo I can say he has nerves of steel, but we knew that. He is difficult to beat. His race was impeccable. This said, his pace in the race arounf the 48 was good but not impressive, proof is that he had to fight Marquez in the end. I remain with my impression that Rossi had a concrete chance of beating both of them, and I don't say this of Rossi every time.

Fine, let's just say Lorenzo was better on the brakes into San Donato since he wasn't running wide into the turn. Either way the point still remains, Lorenzo was better on the brakes than Rossi when it mattered. Find something else to whine about.
 
Dont look at me, i openly exulted. For what that .......... has put the sport through the last 7 months, i could not care less if he blew up every race.



You simply dont know that, a number of things could have happened, like Rossi finally completely running off track trying to pass Lorenzo. I never thought i would say it, but Lorenzo was beating Rossi on the brakes something fierce.

Wow, that is a good definition of wishful thinking. Lorenzo was braking well, but the dance was just at the beginning. Rossi would have tried somewhere else if he couldn't pass there. Asserting that Rossi could never have passed Lorenzo is a bopper statement.
 
The "might have been" are moot, agree. But Lorenzo's pace in the race was not irresisitible, and that is a fact that leaves more room for regret on Rossi's part. Other times I have been ready to say that Rossi would not have won against a really fast Lorenzo anyway, when for instance he started from 3rd row; but yesterday Lorenzo was not able to build any gap.

Iannone actually had the fastest lap of the race and was never going to win it after his start, and you can't know that Rossi wouldn't also have made an error at some stage as Povol says, he ran wide at least once before his engine blew.

JL on the other hand didn't make a single error in the race and was just as fast at the end of the race as he was at the start, and hence would seem to have had plenty of tyre left which is not always the case for him.

Bad luck for Rossi as even Jorge said, but JL himself could have done no more and deserves full credit. If MM had won he probably would have deserved even more credit, as he appeared to actually get more out of his bike than should really have been available for much of the race and lost through no error of his.
 
BTW, something no one is mentioning is Rossi made a number of errors in the race. They weren't punishing by any means, but they were happening.
 

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