MotoGP: 2015 round 18 - Valencia (SPOILERS)

J4rn0 · Nov 8, 2015

Jumkie said:
How is it possible that supposed MotoGP "fans" can conclude, in an 18 race season that a championship is won or lost because one rider couldn't execute one pass in one race against the fastest most determined rider in that race?

Rossi fans, and Rossi himself, should upset at Rossi for not winning more races or accumulating more points over the course of a season. If the logic is that one rider "cost" VR the championship, apart from Rossi himself, maybe then Pedrosa and Iannone should be enemy number one, for beating Rossi to a podium. Pedrosa being the reverse supposedly of Marquez crime, that is racing a contender so spirited, once, at one race.

These supposed fans of this sport, and Rossi himself, seem not understand not accumulating maximum points in round 1-9 has the exact same effect as rounds 10-18.

As usual you twist facts to suit your own endless rantatorials Jums... Try to listen to something different from the sound of your own voice now and then, you may discover little unassuming things called facts.

For example, Rossi does not say that MM's tactics "costed him the title": he says they costed him the possibility to fight it out with Lorenzo to the end. Maybe Lorenzo would have won anyway, but it would have been the fair outcome. This is what he says. Welcome to disagree, but not to distort it.

And again, while you are rather obviously right saying that Rossi could have won by just accumulating more points earlier -- you earn the Monsieur de La Palisse 1st prize with that, bravissimo! -- you give the lie to yourself in the same breath, since you always insisted that the title was rigged in Rossi's favor from the start and all the drama of his points battle with Lorenzo was just Dorna's soap opera... Priceless! :happy:

frizzle · Nov 8, 2015

povol said:
Did you notice how he was fake laughing while giving Carmelo his marching orders. That is one snakey .... right there, and his fans can't or won't see it

Maybe he is going to get him Bridgestone's when everyone else has switched to Michellin's?

J4rn0 · Nov 8, 2015

Iowegian said:
Krop's write up is excellent.

Sure, but he gets one key fact wrong, probably because Italian is not his language: Rossi did not "summon" Ezpeleta to his motorhome. There was no imperative in the "see you later in my motorhome". It was a friendly invitation like "see you later and let's talk about this privately". Of course Ezpeleta and Rossi talk, they know each other pretty well, -- no need of "summoning" between them.

Dr No · Nov 9, 2015

Krop's point stands whichever way you read it, j4.

J4rn0 · Nov 9, 2015

Dr No said:
Krop's point stands whichever way you read it, j4.

You are free to think that of course -- still it is possible that I understand Italian colloquial phrases a little better than Krops (or most people here), isn't it.

#22 · Nov 9, 2015

Keshav said:
No way Lorenzo leaves Yamaha. Yamaha have been really good to him. They stood by him when Rossi told them to choose between the two. He's made his premiere class mark with Yamaha and over the years has worked with them to create a bike that is most uniquely suited to his riding style. Changing to the twitchey Honda would be career suicide.

I can't see Lorenzo going to Ducati unless he's forced from Yamaha and I can't see that happening with Rossi close to retirement. If that happened, he'd be better off at Honda I'd argue.

GraciasMarquez said:
Says the guy standing on his head wearing his grandmother's prom dress.

It's actually my prom dress, I was such a pretty girl. So much so I won woman of the year on here in 2010.

Gaz said:
Not having a go at you here Curve as I know that you do like to piss take a bit but what I find interesting with all the 'gay' themed pics doing the rounds is how many of the same people who criticised the Rossi+Uccio pictures as being 'disgusting' now see these as fine

I will admit that there have been some bloody good ones around though, the two on the bike is very well done but still, there seems a lot of people who go by 'do as I say, not as I do'

It's the only retort they have to express their anger.

xx CURVE xx said:
Yeah but Uccio can't ride a bike bro lol

No, he just rides Valentino Rossi instead...lol

#22 · Nov 9, 2015

Where can I see the Rossi Ezpeleta Video?

michaelm · Nov 9, 2015

J4rn0 said:
You are free to think that of course -- still it is possible that I understand Italian colloquial phrases a little better than Krops (or most people here), isn't it.

I think he was a translator in a former life, but I would certainly back you over him in translating Italian into English.

I still think Rossi lost the plot with his remarks over the PI race, basically severely insulted MM with scant justification and absolutely pointlessly, and the circus which followed was all a consequence. MM and everyone else can pretty well do whatever they choose out there as long as it is legal anyway as Dani Pedrosa more or less said, and if MM is good enough to ride a race so nuanced that he can simultaneously help Lorenzo and hinder Rossi whilst riding fast enough to both finish 5 seconds in front of Dani Pedrosa and win the race after nearly losing the bike twice on an early lap, without putting a hard move on either contender there is little Valentino or anyone else can do about it, other than not to be in a position reliant on his favour. MM may well have believed himself that he played fair at PI, and was perhaps in the best position to know.

Paszti · Nov 9, 2015

#22 said:
Where can I see the Rossi Ezpeleta Video?

MotoGP, Valencia 2015: Valentino Rossi ad Ezpeleta: "Te l'avevo detto..." - MotoGP - Moto.it

#22 · Nov 9, 2015

Thanks

Gaz · Nov 9, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Sure, but he gets one key fact wrong, probably because Italian is not his language: Rossi did not "summon" Ezpeleta to his motorhome. There was no imperative in the "see you later in my motorhome". It was a friendly invitation like "see you later and let's talk about this privately". Of course Ezpeleta and Rossi talk, they know each other pretty well, -- no need of "summoning" between them.

J4, I will take your translation but when I watch the video I do see one extremely serious display of body language as VR leans in closer and whispers something.

To me, this piece can be read a number of ways but it is not a good look for DORNA or (IMO here) Rossi in that it looks as though Rossi wishes to influence DORNA who are willing to listen

To me, Ezpeleta could have and should have stated in front of the media that now was not the time, and that his door was always open should VR wish to discuss and aspects of the season proper, just as the door is (should be) open to all riders.

Remember, it was VR who made the statement with media present and whilst you have interpreted your way, to me with the body language and the statement itself it could quite readily be interpreted as bullying or pressuring Ezpeleta to attend at Rossie's behest. To me, if Ezpeleta were to attend (and I would expect given past years he would have) then it is an extremely poor reflection on Ezpleleta and DORNA for not having some balls so as not to show a level of potential favouritism

We cannot forget that many times other riders have wanted the presence or ear of Ezpeleta but been waved away, this should be no different if fairness or the impression of fairness is to remain

J4rn0 · Nov 9, 2015

I would like to make a few points. I think Lorenzo deserved his title (obviously), he just had it made a little easier for him. But he may not even have needed the little help from his friends.

I do not even blame the Spaniards for playing it patriotically, as Lorenzo himself admitted after the race. That's actually not a scandal, and btw each rider is free to let another rider win. Or not to, if he can.

I think Rossi feels there is an enemy, and he's probably right, but he's not seeing clearly who this is. If you think it matter of fact, you see that for Honda it is by far preferable that it is Lorenzo winning his 5th title, rather than Rossi winning his 10th.

Why? Because like this they are spared the huge mediatic and marketing wave of Valentino Rossi winning his 10th titlle on the Yamaha. That, they didn't weant for sure. If it has to be a Yamaha, Lorenzo's is far better.

Fact.

J4rn0 · Nov 9, 2015

Gaz said:
J4, I will take your translation but when I watch the video I do see one extremely serious display of body language as VR leans in closer and whispers something.

To me, this piece can be read a number of ways but it is not a good look for DORNA or (IMO here) Rossi in that it looks as though Rossi wishes to influence DORNA who are willing to listen

To me, Ezpeleta could have and should have stated in front of the media that now was not the time, and that his door was always open should VR wish to discuss and aspects of the season proper, just as the door is (should be) open to all riders.

Remember, it was VR who made the statement with media present and whilst you have interpreted your way, to me with the body language and the statement itself it could quite readily be interpreted as bullying or pressuring Ezpeleta to attend at Rossie's behest. To me, if Ezpeleta were to attend (and I would expect given past years he would have) then it is an extremely poor reflection on Ezpleleta and DORNA for not having some balls so as not to show a level of potential favouritism

We cannot forget that many times other riders have wanted the presence or ear of Ezpeleta but been waved away, this should be no different if fairness or the impression of fairness is to remain

Italian TV managed to isolate the audio and I heard avery single word he said to Ezpeleta. No imperatives, no commanding tone, nothing of that sort. Rossi was still full of race adrenaline, and certainly he wasn't relaxed, but he was talking to Ezpeleta in a normal friendly way and the invitation to the motorhome was casual and informal.

I wonder why people who are so ready in dismissing Rossi' complaints about MM's tactics as wild assumtpions, are so ready in making even wilder assumptions in matters like these?

Gaz · Nov 9, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Italian TV managed to isolate the audio and I heard avery single word he said to Ezpeleta. No imperatives, no commanding tone, nothing of that sort. Rossi was still full of race adrenaline, and certainly he wasn't relaxed, but he was talking to Ezpeleta in a normal friendly way and the invitation to the motorhome was casual and informal.

Cool ta.

As I said (not understanding Italian language or mannerisms) to this english speaker it didn't look the best so thanks for clearing that up

J4rn0 said:
I wonder why people who are so ready in dismissing Rossi' complaints about MM's tactics as wild assumtpions, are so ready in making even wilder assumptions in matters like these?

I will go with evidence (and I realise what you are saying which is we all see that which we believe we see)

FWIW, I have no doubt that VR believes his theories ........ his problem is that the evidence is insufficient to validate his theory and whilst some people may 'see' suspicions, without evidence they remain suspicions.

It also does not help that much that in terms of lap times VR has not been able to match the times of others late in the season, whether fighting or whether alone and so this does not bode well for the claims (my opinion).

Personally, I think that we saw VR crack this year and whilst we have seen small signs from time to time what we saw late this year was a serious disintegration of Rossi. To me, it is this that is the story of the season and whilst yes there will be much talk about whether he had grounds, the meltdown from Sepang on Thursday until today will live long in people's memory ......

I fully realise that you are a bike fan first and a Rossi fan second so do not view your comments near as biased as many others from both sides, but genuinely, how has the reception been to teh meltdown in Italy or is it not being seen as such?

J4rn0 · Nov 9, 2015

JPSLotus said:
So MM stood to pocket £200,000 if he won the race in Valencia.

Sorry, there is no way he forgoes that kind of bonus just to help Lorenzo win the title.

High level athletes/professionals love money. They have expensive lifestyles and also have to plan for the future when they no longer have this earning potential. In a sport where the riders are one crash away always from suffering a career ending injury, you simply do not leave this money on the table for the sake of sticking it to someone else.

Nobody will ever know, but certainly Honda Marketing Division had more reasons to pay £200,000 for making sure that Rossi didn't win his 10th title for the competition, imo.

michaelm · Nov 9, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Italian TV managed to isolate the audio and I heard avery single word he said to Ezpeleta. No imperatives, no commanding tone, nothing of that sort. Rossi was still full of race adrenaline, and certainly he wasn't relaxed, but he was talking to Ezpeleta in a normal friendly way and the invitation to the motorhome was casual and informal.

I wonder why people who are so ready in dismissing Rossi' complaints about MM's tactics as wild assumtpions, are so ready in making even wilder assumptions in matters like these?

He hadn't ridden a Honda for 12 seasons, which was 2 formulae ago. If he passed comment on how hard he thought Jorge was trying it would have some verisimilitude. Last time he passed comment about how hard someone was trying on a bike he had never ridden, the 2010 Ducati, it didn't exactly prove out all that well.

J4rn0 · Nov 9, 2015

michaelm said:
He hadn't ridden a Honda for 12 seasons, which was 2 formulae ago. If he passed comment on how hard he thought Jorge was trying it would have some verisimilitude. Last time he passed comment about how hard someone was trying on a bike he had never ridden, the 2010 Ducati, it didn't exactly prove out all that well.

Agree, but the point here is that he wasn't intimidating Ezpeleta.

michaelm · Nov 9, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Agree, but the point here is that he wasn't intimidating Ezpeleta.

Sure, and I said I believed your interpretation/translation concerning that matter.

Dr No · Nov 9, 2015

J4rn0 said:
You are free to think that of course -- still it is possible that I understand Italian colloquial phrases a little better than Krops (or most people here), isn't it.

Sure.
But I'm not referring to the words.
Krop's greater point concerned the power balance.

kindo · Nov 9, 2015

I'm not going to lie and say that I have read every page of this and other threads of the same vein, so apologies if this has already been mentioned - but I actually think this past fortnight shows how mentally strong Lorenzo can be (which, after the broken collarbone and racing in Netherlands (I think?) a few years ago, has been shown before). To put up that pole time, under that amount of stress, is pretty full on. And even to win last night, with all of the hubbub off track, got to be full marks for that.

On a separate note, the foul, homophobic comments on literally every fb MotoGP post over the past few weeks makes me so sad. Whatever side of the fence you sit on about "the incident", I thought this generation was past that kind of .....

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