MotoGP: 2015 round 18 - Valencia (SPOILERS)

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Congrats to Jorge Lorenzo.

That race was an amazing performance. That was a high risk pace, nobody other than the top three were capable or willing to push to that particular limit. If Pedrosa is the 'standard' of integrity, then why was he off the leaders 1-2+ secs most the race if we are to believe Marc was "sandbagging"? I think both RCV riders pushed to the limit because a man ahead of them was on the knife's edge in terms of pace, close to the ideal lap for a race distance, willing to risk a blistering pace from the moment go. Why do some believe Marc would have been able to pass at will if his 'honest' teammate, who has collected the most points and had the best pace for the last few rounds was third for most of this race, and finished in that position? We may 'chose' not to believe the RCVs have had overheating issues, to believe this notion of sandbagging; but then we must accept in that logic 'both' Pedrosa and Marquez are liars. Pedrosa said again today, he had to let the front cool and come back to him, exactly what Marc said at PI and other 'suspiciou' races. So what does that imply about Marquez then, to have not let Lorenzo get away while risking a crash? This means he risked much more than Pedrosa! After all he was ahead of Pedrosa. I think Marquez was in fact lining up a pass on Lorenzo but he decided to do it just when Pedrosa arrived. Or hurried to do it when Pedrosa arrived. Again racing for position is now seen suspect, the new post-Sepang press conference perspective, that Marquez needing to fend off Pedrosa to pass Lorenzo is mathematically irreconcilable. If Pedrosa gets by Marc that makes it infinitely more difficult for Marquez to win the race. We have seen this without exaggeration in racing thousands of times, where riders 2/3 battle to win resulting in an escape for the winner. We have now entered a new Era of Perspective, where racing itself is suspicious behavior! No credit for Lorenzo who by lap chart analysis was much faster than his teammate on the 'same' equipment (clear laps). No credit for his concentration to deploy a strategy of being fast every lap as the best defense from Marquez or Pedrosa.

The race ended when it did, had it gone on for 5 more laps, perhaps and only perhaps the RCVs pass, however this reasoning also applies in reverse had the race ended 5 laps prior, Lorenzo would have beat the two RCVs. That is to say, this 'race distance' ended at a point where the result match the pace for that exact given distance. We can all say Pedrosa had the pace to win, that is absolutely not true 5 laps prior as he was over a second off in 3rd; there is as much evidence there (that is none) to prove Lorenzo wouldn't have fought for the position ferociously had Pedrosa got past Marc, which he failed to do in what is called 'clean racing'. Marquez has become the villain, all based on supposition and the accusations levied against him by VR. Fact is he beat Pedrosa today, cleanly, if that is suspicious behavior, racing no longer has meaning. If Pedrosa had the pace to beat Marc, then why didn't he? He was able to beat Rossi in the exact closing stages of a race distance in Aragon, and with a rival who put up a much more severe fight than Marquez put up today! Racing has become suspect and by extension proof of dubious behavior. How and why did we get to this point? If this was not in anybody's radar after Phillip Island, where the most aggressive rider was Ianonne, who if we follow this perverse logic, was eerily absent today. Why no castigated doubt of his integrity? Did he roll over to help Lorenzo or Rossi? Isn't the pace, once achieved supposed to be there all the time and ever track for any condition? As is the standard for Marquez? A man who this year has crashed with regularity, and when pushing to the limit has perhaps recognized (as he has said as much) that finishing on the podium is in fact better than crashing out. So now we all expect him to win or bin, and push beyond the limit of his machine, tire limitation, own comfort zone, otherwise its proof he was dubiously unwilling to challenge Lorenzo, while again his honest teammate was in fact behind him the entire race (experiencing limitation issues that both have documented ). The confirmation bias that Marquez sandbagged is based on him beating his teammates on similar equipment! (Pause to thing about this). What then is to be said about his teammate then? I believe all three podium finishers pushed to the absolute limit of their machine, the man who won the race was in a zone where this was his most motivated performance of his life! Somehow him beating the two chasing, and fastest riders on the grid bar 'none', is suspicious! The pole lap was stunning, the start was blistering, the entire race pace was astonishing, and the level of concentration for its duration was extraordinary. Congratulations to Jorge Lorenzo, the 2015 World Champion.
 
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To MM, it did not matter if he was battling against a title contender or not until PI. He intended to battle hard to any rider, but then Rossi put accusation on him. He blamed he messed up the championship. I do not blame MM if he did not want to be a factor to make Rossi win the title by battling hard with Jorge. After all, it is Rossi who told him to step away.
 
And there you have just said it, VR is bigger than the sport.

Nobody should care about riots. Rules go above everything. Rossi should have been blackflagged.

Doesn't matter who it was no title contender is going to be black flagged or race banned with a race left to go.

The fairest thing for the championship, as well as JL and Rossi, would have been for Valentino to be docked 3 actual points rather than penalty points imo. Except for how points are scored, the guy with the most points winning and rules about tie breaks I am not sure they have many rules about championships though, the rules mainly concern how races are to be run.

I agree with this. The weekend would have been a typical race weekend with a title to decide on merit rather than with a back of the grid start impossibility.

What I saw Was a title fight. It was a ....... exciting race.

The race would not have been exciting if the championship was decided by a black flag. In fact, most probably wouldn't have bothered to watch it. This is a business first. I'm also certain if it was any other rider there would be no black flag and the back of the grid penalty would have been applied to keep the title race alive as long as possible. This is the dream scenario of any top Motorsports series.
 
Maybe Rossi double crossed himself as he has many times in this whole circus and MM was actually instructed by RD or Honda not to put hard passes on race contenders
But he did not even try to pass JL even once and it is clear that he had the pace to win the race. Also he was quite aggressive when dani took 2nd place.[emoji4]
 
The race would not have been exciting if the championship was decided by a black flag. In fact, most probably wouldn't have bothered to watch it. This is a business first. I'm also certain if it was any other rider there would be no black flag and the back of the grid penalty would have been applied to keep the title race alive as long as possible. This is the dream scenario of any top Motorsports series.

The top threee separated by a second, whether one of them is fighting for a title or not, IS an exciting race.

All you mean, is you could get a boner because your boy Rossi wasn't winning.
 
But he did not even try to pass JL even once and it is clear that he had the pace to win the race. Also he was quite aggressive when dani took 2nd place.[emoji4]
Lorenzo was too fast. MM couldn't overtake him.

But anyway, in your defence ... MM shouldn't even have tried to overtake Lorenzo as Lorenzo was contender and MM not. On the other hand, he can be hard to Pedrosa because Pedrosa was not a contender either. This is Rossi's rule, by the way.
 
Goes back to the point of, if MM races a championship contender he gets ...., if he supposedly doesn't do it, those same people are screaming about it.

He can't win.

Its called being consistent in your actions on track. He isn't, thus the .....
 
Its called being consistent in your actions on track. He isn't, thus the .....

Rossi isn't consistent either. Everyone should make his life easy because he is contender, but everyone should make Lorenzo's life hard despite Lorenzo being a contender too.
 
The top threee separated by a second, whether one of them is fighting for a title or not, IS an exciting race.

All you mean, is you could get a boner because your boy Rossi wasn't winning.

You must be inept or blind if a race where not one pass for the lead was ever attempted is exciting even if 1-2 seconds separates them. Maybe I'm wrong but a race where the top 2-3 are riding shotgun isn't exciting. Once again, if it weren't for VR staring at the back and the prospect of an epic race you wouldn't have even got up for this one.
 
Rossi isn't consistent either. Everyone should make his life easy because he is contender, but everyone should make Lorenzo's life hard despite Lorenzo being a contender too.

What are you talking about? Marquez has never sat behind someone an entire race and not attempt an overtake. Yet that's what happened. Fact.
 
Its called being consistent in your actions on track. He isn't, thus the .....

No, it's called people were going to find something to complain about no matter what.

I'm going to tell you the same thing I've told the Boppers, you have no proof MM did not race as hard as he could. Unless VR won, there was no way the Boppers were ever going to be able to handle it. They are looking for conspiracies under every rock now.
 
Lorenzo was too fast. MM couldn't overtake him.

But anyway, in your defence ... MM shouldn't even have tried to overtake Lorenzo as Lorenzo was contender and MM not. On the other hand, he can be hard to Pedrosa because Pedrosa was not a contender either. This is Rossi's rule, by the way.
JL was too fast?
Yes he was.
Was he too fast for mm?
Not really.
I m not supporting rossi for whatever he did or didn't do.
Even dani's pace was good enough to pass JL. Dani acted a little late in the end.
But looks like you are not going to believe what was happening.
Although mm did go through a lot. specially the Italian paparazzi incident at his place. I personally would have tried to stop rossi from winning the title after all the BS that happened if i was MM.
No offence btw.
Hoping for a clean 2016 session.
Cheers.
 
No, it's called people were going to find something to complain about no matter what.

I'm going to tell you the same thing I've told the Boppers, you have no proof MM did not race as hard as he could. Unless VR won, there was no way the Boppers were ever going to be able to handle it. They are looking for conspiracies under every rock now.

Considering this forum is famous for those in all kinds about MotoGP.....are you surprised?

And before i forget....Congrats to Jorge!
 
No, it's called people were going to find something to complain about no matter what.

I'm going to tell you the same thing I've told the Boppers, you have no proof MM did not race as hard as he could. Unless VR won, there was no way the Boppers were ever going to be able to handle it. They are looking for conspiracies under every rock now.

I've been following Marquez since 125's, and not once has he sat behind a rider the entire race without attempting an overtake. I'm a fan of Rossi but was also a huge fan of Marquez. Not so much now.
 
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