Motogp 2013 Round 3: Jerez

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 I think he is probably aware of his own mortality.

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Watched the race with 27 hours delay as usual


 


 


1) Dani Pedrosa: Nice world class riding, Perfect win, Important victory fir him to stay in the title battle


2) Marc Marquez: Just impressive, Nice race, But sure gave Lorenzo a very hard time. He has the ability to surprise everybody each race. 


3) Jorge Lorenzo: Congratz on the podium, Hard race for both Yamaha and Jorge, He just could't defend the second place. Nice professional interview after the race, Respect for the Mallorcan rider, He is a true sportsman.


4) Valentino Rossi: I expected more from him since it was Jerez and he is a experienced rider in the track, Maybe the Yamaha's are falling back from the Honda's. We have to wait for Le Mans to see the performance of the Blue M1's.


5) Cal Crutchlow: The only satellite rider who really deserves a factory bike and he is the only one who has the ability to ride alongside factory riders (Japanese Factories) for some laps.


 


About the Lorenzo Marquez incident:


 


I have watched the overtake 2 or 3 times and I think the pass was a little bit more aggressive then the Lorenzo-Pedrosa battle we have seen in the past. I first thought Marquez was kind of block passing Jorge in the exit of the corner and was pushing him wide but he just went there faster than Lorenzo. I think Lorenzo was just not able to hold Marquez off like the way he did on Marquez's earlier attempts and since it was the last corner of the final lap he just didn't want to lose the line to Marquez, So in my opinion the reason they both touched was the fact that Lorenzo was trying so hard to get back on the line as fast as possible. I think in that moment Marquez was focusing on what Ayrton Senna said about racing long time ago:


" If You Don't Go For The Gap That Exists, You Are Not A Racing Driver! " 


 


Final Word: Perfect Race, Nice battles, I think the Yamaha needs some work done for the Le Mans race and the rest of the season. I expect a Yamaha 1-2 for the French Grandprix but the Honda looks so powerful and stable in both corner entries and corner exits. I hope no DNFs in Le Mans, and of course no moves that will make the race control interfere.

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Tbh I never understood why le mans should be a yamaha track . except for that first ultra fast corner there isn't much in terms of corner speed. Maybe that s from the time the yam was all about braking and being flickable?

Bang on race review mh, if I had the patience/intelligence instead of a massive anger problem I'd have written the same

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BTW Jumkie, pull your head out of your ... and focus!


You're running days behind the forum. That's un-sat friend.


Get up, watch the race, argue with friends....anything less = ZERO effort. We've come to expect more from you...

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Yeah.... watch out. Before long J4rn0 will be starting a thread titled "What Wrong With Jumkie?" or Mad Mick will start a thread titled "Is It Time To Frog March Jum To The Betty Ford Clinic." or gui22a will start a thread titled, "Will Jumkie Ever Win Another Argument? - Going Back A Few Threads. Peeps'll be demanding you give up yer factory seat to a younger member.

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From all indications, the characteristics of LeMans favor the strengths of the Honda. Im kind of expecting the opposite.


 


Le Mans is a tight track dominated by first gear corners that place the emphasis on late braking and hard acceleration, whilst rear end traction is also a key area

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Tbh I never understood why le mans should be a yamaha track . except for that first ultra fast corner there isn't much in terms of corner speed. Maybe that s from the time the yam was all about braking and being flickable?

Bang on race review mh, if I had the patience/intelligence instead of a massive anger problem I'd have written the same

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 Its obvious from the motogp.com feeds that they are shoving these two down our throat, despite on combined stats (that is 14 years of competing) they won exactly jack .... by way of titles.  That doesn’t stop the feed coverage showing us their every reaction, them standing at the line to watch a start, their expressions when something happens on track; their faces have become so familiar to us that gullible people have started to connect their names to significant accomplishment. 

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Sloth_27 said:

1. In five years in the junior classes, Stoner won 7 races and 'jack ....' in the way of titles. Dani Pedrosa won 23 races and 3 titles. How did that turn out for those guys?

2. The MotoGp feed rams Colin Edwards down our throat far more than the Espagaro bros and he has actually won jack ..... At least Aleix is looking like being the CRT GOAT.

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Marquez incident
 
Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.  This is the only FACT you need to consider.  Everything else is irrelevant and tangential.  This fact means Marquez was out of control, dangerous, and completely at fault in the final turn incident.  This is the end of the argument.  Marquez made a braking ERROR, and this resulted in a collision.
 
There are people far and wide rationalizing all manner of explanations to try and justify their particular perspective of the incident, none however will ever be able to evade this singular FACT-- Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
 
All incidents in a race are “racing incidents”.  That means when Baustista torpedoed Lorenzo last year, that was a “racing incident” as much as the infamous  Capirossi on Harada back in 98, Pedrosa on Hayden 06, Elias on Rossi 06,  Rossi on Stoner 10, as was any other incident during any race from the beginning of time.  Describing some distinguishable moment in a race between riders as a “racing incident” is of no value. 
 
So far most of the rationalizations fall into these categories:
 
1.    Lorenzo’s trajectory into the final turn was… ‘not defensive enough’, ‘he left a gap, the door was open’ etc (insert your foolish rationalization here).  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
2.    Lorenzo did not expect Marquez to come inside, or the “temerity” to do so. IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
3.    Lorenzo could have avoided contact had he (insert your dim-witted rationalization here).  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
4.    This made the race more exciting, entertaining, less boring.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
5.    Neither rider got injured, maimed, or died.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
6.    Neither rider was punted off the track.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
7.    Marquez was correct in going for a position.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
8.    The contact was similar to (insert your senseless comparison here).  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
9.    “Rider A was well past rider B…lost the front” IRRELEVANT! (besides being fantasy about the front) Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
10.    Marquez is supremely talented, a rookie, just a kid, aggressive, good looking, delicious, straight/...., gives to charity, (insert lame hyperbole here). IRRELEVANT. Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
11.    Marco Simonchelli was more dangerous than Marquez. IRRELEVANT! (besides being a cheap-shot and unassailable) IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
12.    Lorenzo torpedoed some kid before he reached puberty.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
13.    Marquez intentions were pure.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
14.    Lorenzo admits to no riding a defensive line in the last corner.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
15.    Rubbing is racing, this is racing, (insert your un-clever cliché here)  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
16.    Insert your seemingly well crafted rationalization here.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

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3509631367974269

Marquez incident
 
Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.  This is the only FACT you need to consider.  Everything else is irrelevant and tangential.  This fact means Marquez was out of control, dangerous, and completely at fault in the final turn incident.  This is the end of the argument.  Marquez made a braking ERROR, and this resulted in a collision.
 
There are people far and wide rationalizing all manner of explanations to try and justify their particular perspective of the incident, none however will ever be able to evade this singular FACT-- Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
 
All incidents in a race are “racing incidents”.  That means when Baustista torpedoed Lorenzo last year, that was a “racing incident” as much as the infamous  Capirossi on Harada back in 98, Pedrosa on Hayden 06, Elias on Rossi 06,  Rossi on Stoner 10, as was any other incident during any race from the beginning of time.  Describing some distinguishable moment in a race between riders as a “racing incident” is of no value. 
 
So far most of the rationalizations fall into these categories:
 
1.    Lorenzo’s trajectory into the final turn was… ‘not defensive enough’, ‘he left a gap, the door was open’ etc (insert your foolish rationalization here).  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
2.    Lorenzo did not expect Marquez to come inside, or the “temerity” to do so. IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
3.    Lorenzo could have avoided contact had he (insert your dim-witted rationalization here).  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
4.    This made the race more exciting, entertaining, less boring.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
5.    Neither rider got injured, maimed, or died.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
6.    Neither rider was punted off the track.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
7.    Marquez was correct in going for a position.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
8.    The contact was similar to (insert your senseless comparison here).  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
9.    “Rider A was well past rider B…lost the front” IRRELEVANT! (besides being fantasy about the front) Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
10.    Marquez is supremely talented, a rookie, just a kid, aggressive, good looking, delicious, straight/...., gives to charity, (insert lame hyperbole here). IRRELEVANT. Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
11.    Marco Simonchelli was more dangerous than Marquez. IRRELEVANT! (besides being a cheap-shot and unassailable) IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
12.    Lorenzo torpedoed some kid before he reached puberty.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
13.    Marquez intentions were pure.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
14.    Lorenzo admits to no riding a defensive line in the last corner.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
15.    Rubbing is racing, this is racing, (insert your un-clever cliché here)  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
16.    Insert your seemingly well crafted rationalization here.  IRRELEVANT! Marquez’s braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.
 
 
Marquez has been involved in a plethora of high profile incidents, many actually life threatening, this is just one in a long line of succession.  No amount of rationalization will change the FACT that Marquez made an ERROR by not braking accurately to negotiate the final turn appropriately.  There is nothing that can be said tangentially to change this fact, it was a mistake that lead to a collision.  That means it was his fault.  
 
The overwhelming attitude is its acceptable, where people give their rationalizations why its tolerable.  The fact is that at any given turn, if the rider behind decides not to brake or brake accurately, they will actually pass the lead rider at some point in the process, this does NOT suddenly give them the right of way. Given Marquez lack of deceleration, he was NOT poised to negotiate the turn properly (this is an undeniable FACT).  When he collided into Lorenzo, his trajectory was still going toward off the track.  It was the physical effect of the collision that generated the change in direction for Marquez to continue on the track, otherwise he would have gone beyond the white line, that is, off the track.  Collision are mistakes in racing!  There is never a time that a collision in motorcycle racing is intentional for its correctness.  Lorenzo’s line may not have been defensive enough, but when that happens, the challenging rider is suppose to accurately brake enough to negotiate the inside line in the “space” or “gap” that supposedly appears.  There were examples of this in this race alone, where passes were executed without collision.  That is correct overtaking.  
 
Final note. I’m not surprised by the cavalier attitude of most people who applaud Marquez’s ERROR.  Here I suppose there are several categories why people are so willing to accept an error in braking resulting in a collision: first and foremost, it didn’t happen to a rider they cheer for, the rider that perpetrated the error is liked/loved, and other reasons, it was exciting, nobody was injured, crashed, or killed, race direction did not punish the incident, he is just a rookie learning, and mistaking uncompromising fight for assertive racecraft; all of these rationalizations are of the very same weak level, and all of them lacking substance, and more importantly, wisdom.

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Marquez incident

 
Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.  This is the only FACT you need to consider.  Everything else is irrelevant and tangential.  This fact means Marquez was out of control, dangerous, and completely at fault in the final turn incident.  This is the end of the argument.  Marquez made a braking ERROR, and this resulted in a collision.

 

There are people far and wide rationalizing all manner of explanations to try and justify their particular perspective of the incident, none however will ever be able to evade this singular FACT-- Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

 
All incidents in a race are racing incidents.  That means when Baustista torpedoed Lorenzo last year, that was a racing incident as much as the infamous  Capirossi on Harada back in 98, Pedrosa on Hayden 06, Elias on Rossi 06,  Rossi on Stoner 10, as was any other incident during any race from the beginning of time.  Describing some distinguishable moment in a race between riders as a racing incident is of no value. 

 

So far most of the rationalizations fall into these categories:

 

1.    Lorenzos trajectory into the final turn was not defensive enough, he left a gap, the door was open etc (insert your foolish rationalization here).  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

2.    Lorenzo did not expect Marquez to come inside, or the temerity to do so. IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

3.    Lorenzo could have avoided contact had he (insert your dim-witted rationalization here).  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

4.    This made the race more exciting, entertaining, less boring.  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

5.    Neither rider got injured, maimed, or died.  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

6.    Neither rider was punted off the track.  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

7.    Marquez was correct in going for a position.  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

8.    The contact was similar to (insert your senseless comparison here).  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

9.    Rider A was well past rider Blost the front IRRELEVANT! (besides being fantasy about the front) Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

10.    Marquez is supremely talented, a rookie, just a kid, aggressive, good looking, delicious, straight/...., gives to charity, (insert lame hyperbole here). IRRELEVANT. Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

11.    Marco Simonchelli was more dangerous than Marquez. IRRELEVANT! (besides being a cheap-shot and unassailable) IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

12.    Lorenzo torpedoed some kid before he reached puberty.  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

13.    Marquez intentions were pure.  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

14.    Lorenzo admits to no riding a defensive line in the last corner.  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

15.    Rubbing is racing, this is racing, (insert your un-clever cliché here)  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

16.    Insert your seemingly well crafted rationalization here.  IRRELEVANT! Marquezs braking ERROR, not braking adequately to negotiate the final turn appropriately resulted in a collision.

 

 

Marquez has been involved in a plethora of high profile incidents, many actually life threatening, this is just one in a long line of succession.  No amount of rationalization will change the FACT that Marquez made an ERROR by not braking accurately to negotiate the final turn appropriately.  There is nothing that can be said tangentially to change this fact, it was a mistake that lead to a collision.  That means it was his fault.  

 
The overwhelming attitude is its acceptable, where people give their rationalizations why its tolerable.  The fact is that at any given turn, if the rider behind decides not to brake or brake accurately, they will actually pass the lead rider at some point in the process, this does NOT suddenly give them the right of way. Given Marquez lack of deceleration, he was NOT poised to negotiate the turn properly (this is an undeniable FACT).  When he collided into Lorenzo, his trajectory was still going toward off the track.  It was the physical effect of the collision that generated the change in direction for Marquez to continue on the track, otherwise he would have gone beyond the white line, that is, off the track.  Collision are mistakes in racing!  There is never a time that a collision in motorcycle racing is intentional for its correctness.  Lorenzos line may not have been defensive enough, but when that happens, the challenging rider is suppose to accurately brake enough to negotiate the inside line in the space or gap that supposedly appears.  There were examples of this in this race alone, where passes were executed without collision.  That is correct overtaking.  

 
Final note. Im not surprised by the cavalier attitude of most people who applaud Marquezs ERROR.  Here I suppose there are several categories why people are so willing to accept an error in braking resulting in a collision: first and foremost, it didnt happen to a rider they cheer for, the rider that perpetrated the error is liked/loved, and other reasons, it was exciting, nobody was injured, crashed, or killed, race direction did not punish the incident, he is just a rookie learning, and mistaking uncompromising fight for assertive racecraft; all of these rationalizations are of the very same weak level, and all of them lacking substance, and more importantly, wisdom.

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