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Big Jorge
no and yam better do something soon, I noticed today when Lorenzo and MM was battling.... Marquez ran wide Lorenzo went up the inside, Lorenzo had the drive out of the corner marquez had to build up momentum but within seconds he was back on Lorenzo's back wheel??? either the yams had a problem here with getting the power down or Honda has a much more serious package than I originally thought.
no and yam better do something soon, I noticed today when Lorenzo and MM was battling.... Marquez ran wide Lorenzo went up the inside, Lorenzo had the drive out of the corner marquez had to build up momentum but within seconds he was back on Lorenzo's back wheel??? either the yams had a problem here with getting the power down or Honda has a much more serious package than I originally thought.
Simoncelli was not on a factory spec bike his first year. As it stands, first year results are not necessarily predictors of talent or success.
Biaggi is a great one for that. His first year, first race he was more than showing a wheel to Doohan.
Alas, there are only what ifs.. Simoncelli is gone and Marquez is the new crowed prince.
carry on
Biaggi is a great one for that. His first year, first race he was more than showing a wheel to Doohan.
Alas, there are only what ifs.. Simoncelli is gone and Marquez is the new crowed prince.
carry on
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Kropotkin
A buffoon is harmless, an ....... puts you in the hospital with a broken collarbone
A buffoon is harmless, an ....... puts you in the hospital with a broken collarbone
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JohnnyKnockdown
Fixed.
Fixed.
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Mighty Kentor
Like I said. Its not a popular opinion around here
Criticize Simoncelli at your own peril
Like I said. Its not a popular opinion around here
Criticize Simoncelli at your own peril
Dr No
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michaelm
I didn't say that.
His Brazil '92 return after injury was the exemplar of guts and determination.
What I did say was that rather than 'kicking the ....' out of the likes of MM, Doohan used to have a face like a slapped arse anytime Criville finished a step higher than him on the podium.
All the hagiographic accounts put forward by flacks being paid by him (M Oxley) of being super-hard and staring down people and scaring his pit crew were just code for "prima donna".
None of this really matters, as he could ride the living .... out of bikes, and that's why I used to watch him....even when he was winning a dozen races a year.
I didn't say that.
His Brazil '92 return after injury was the exemplar of guts and determination.
What I did say was that rather than 'kicking the ....' out of the likes of MM, Doohan used to have a face like a slapped arse anytime Criville finished a step higher than him on the podium.
All the hagiographic accounts put forward by flacks being paid by him (M Oxley) of being super-hard and staring down people and scaring his pit crew were just code for "prima donna".
None of this really matters, as he could ride the living .... out of bikes, and that's why I used to watch him....even when he was winning a dozen races a year.
I've watched the incident a few dozen times, but, to be honest, I'm not particularly concerned with the incident. Without the frame of context, the pictures aren't terribly meaningful, but we won't have the full context until future events transpire.
Of minor importance is Lorenzo's race craft. In close battles he has twice left the door open while heading into the final turn, and it has backfired twice. I'm interested to see if he learns from these experiences or if the fear of his competitor's blind bravado will continue to compel him to leave the door open.
Of major importance are the events of the remainder of the season, since they will likely shape the early years of the Lorenzo vs. Marquez rivalry. Without a doubt, Lorenzo's caution has given Marquez a sizable psychological advantage in the near term. If Marquez remains competitive with Lorenzo for the remainder of the season, perhaps besting him in a few close duels, Lorenzo's conscientious racing tactics at Jerez will prove to be a serious mistake. However, Lorenzo could actually use the situation to his advantage by following in Dani's footsteps.
Last week, Dani was beaten quite handily by Marquez, in his record-setting debut win. The Kool-Aid chugging was rampant, and Marquez appeared quite smitten with himself. Luckily for Dani, the facade didn't match the true structure of the events. According to what we know at this moment, Dani was not beaten by a superior rookie talent. Instead, the MotoGP circus traveled to a circuit that negated the experiential advantage of established riders. More importantly, in the 21L fuel-limited era, COTA negated the experiential knowledge of the engineers who needed to establish a baseline for fuel settings and fuel strategies. Marquez fast-and-loose style was an appropriate way to deal with the relative chaos of a new circuit. We know this to be true, at the moment, b/c Marquez just had his clock cleaned by Dani who leveraged his riding experience and the talents of Mike Leitner. Of course, Marquez can change the narrative by beating Dani this year, but the future must still unfold.
Lorenzo's position is similar to Dani's following the Texas GP. If Lorenzo responds with convincing wins, the narrative of this event will change. Instead of being admonished for his overly-cautious riding style and his reluctance to block a volatile opponent, Lorenzo will be praised for letting a Kool-Aid-chugging-kid have his 15 minutes, rather than risking a major accident. If 2014 rolls around and the paddock is gushing about Clever Lorenzo and his three world titles, I'd reckon the balances have tipped back in his favor. This incident will actually extend Lorenzo's psychological advantage by negating the importance of Marquez occasional small victories.
Of minor importance is Lorenzo's race craft. In close battles he has twice left the door open while heading into the final turn, and it has backfired twice. I'm interested to see if he learns from these experiences or if the fear of his competitor's blind bravado will continue to compel him to leave the door open.
Of major importance are the events of the remainder of the season, since they will likely shape the early years of the Lorenzo vs. Marquez rivalry. Without a doubt, Lorenzo's caution has given Marquez a sizable psychological advantage in the near term. If Marquez remains competitive with Lorenzo for the remainder of the season, perhaps besting him in a few close duels, Lorenzo's conscientious racing tactics at Jerez will prove to be a serious mistake. However, Lorenzo could actually use the situation to his advantage by following in Dani's footsteps.
Last week, Dani was beaten quite handily by Marquez, in his record-setting debut win. The Kool-Aid chugging was rampant, and Marquez appeared quite smitten with himself. Luckily for Dani, the facade didn't match the true structure of the events. According to what we know at this moment, Dani was not beaten by a superior rookie talent. Instead, the MotoGP circus traveled to a circuit that negated the experiential advantage of established riders. More importantly, in the 21L fuel-limited era, COTA negated the experiential knowledge of the engineers who needed to establish a baseline for fuel settings and fuel strategies. Marquez fast-and-loose style was an appropriate way to deal with the relative chaos of a new circuit. We know this to be true, at the moment, b/c Marquez just had his clock cleaned by Dani who leveraged his riding experience and the talents of Mike Leitner. Of course, Marquez can change the narrative by beating Dani this year, but the future must still unfold.
Lorenzo's position is similar to Dani's following the Texas GP. If Lorenzo responds with convincing wins, the narrative of this event will change. Instead of being admonished for his overly-cautious riding style and his reluctance to block a volatile opponent, Lorenzo will be praised for letting a Kool-Aid-chugging-kid have his 15 minutes, rather than risking a major accident. If 2014 rolls around and the paddock is gushing about Clever Lorenzo and his three world titles, I'd reckon the balances have tipped back in his favor. This incident will actually extend Lorenzo's psychological advantage by negating the importance of Marquez occasional small victories.
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jazkat
If Honda had a clear advantage on this 'Yamaha track', then this surely suggests that this could be a Honda year, with Lorenzo ending up in third place.
If Honda had a clear advantage on this 'Yamaha track', then this surely suggests that this could be a Honda year, with Lorenzo ending up in third place.
Dr No
Sure, I remember Mick complaining quite a lot, and posted to that effect when it was first raised regarding Stoner; they nearly all do to some extent, except perhaps Nicky Hayden.
Mick as I recall mostly complained about Criville sitting on his back tyre the whole race without ever taking the lead, occasionally being successful in winning races by making his only pass on the last lap with Mick having no opportunity to re-pass. He was also not best pleased about Criville and others being given his settings, which I could understand, as I could Valentino's similar attitude.
There is actually a classic race where he deliberately let Criville collide with him to make a point, so there is some substance to what Arab said; the video is around and has been posted on here in the past.
There has been quite a lot of detraction from motogp icons around of late, obviously from Rossi but also Schwantz, so I am glad you don't intend starting on Doohan. He obviously had his flaws, but his achievements stand for themselves, as do Rossi's to an even greater degree; Schwantz's do as well.
Sure, I remember Mick complaining quite a lot, and posted to that effect when it was first raised regarding Stoner; they nearly all do to some extent, except perhaps Nicky Hayden.
Mick as I recall mostly complained about Criville sitting on his back tyre the whole race without ever taking the lead, occasionally being successful in winning races by making his only pass on the last lap with Mick having no opportunity to re-pass. He was also not best pleased about Criville and others being given his settings, which I could understand, as I could Valentino's similar attitude.
There is actually a classic race where he deliberately let Criville collide with him to make a point, so there is some substance to what Arab said; the video is around and has been posted on here in the past.
There has been quite a lot of detraction from motogp icons around of late, obviously from Rossi but also Schwantz, so I am glad you don't intend starting on Doohan. He obviously had his flaws, but his achievements stand for themselves, as do Rossi's to an even greater degree; Schwantz's do as well.
Arrabbiata1
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Dr No
Much like the prematurely bald ginger's and distended armchair experts that doubtless populate racing forums such as these, specialising in telling a four times world champion how to do the job or spout on about how to fix the Ducati and associated 'VSG's'.
Personally, going by the view from where I'm sat in comparison to a seat on a Tech 3 Yamaha, I'd sooner give credence to Bradley's observations.
Much like the prematurely bald ginger's and distended armchair experts that doubtless populate racing forums such as these, specialising in telling a four times world champion how to do the job or spout on about how to fix the Ducati and associated 'VSG's'.
Personally, going by the view from where I'm sat in comparison to a seat on a Tech 3 Yamaha, I'd sooner give credence to Bradley's observations.
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Arrabbiata1
It sounds like a reasonable explanation by Smith. Although, we must take his word that he has been involved in similar battles since the cameras in Moto1 and Moto 2 rarely show the 10th place bikes
It sounds like a reasonable explanation by Smith. Although, we must take his word that he has been involved in similar battles since the cameras in Moto1 and Moto 2 rarely show the 10th place bikes
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mylexicon
Im guessing you didnt watch Qatar
Im guessing you didnt watch Qatar
bluegreen
And a lot of class in the post-race interview. He didn't whine or blame Marquez - he said it was his error that let him through.
I'm interested to read what the deal with tyres was - Lorenzo, in fact all the Yamaha riders, seemed to be unable to plant the front tyre. Soe serious understeer in the fast corners.
And a lot of class in the post-race interview. He didn't whine or blame Marquez - he said it was his error that let him through.
I'm interested to read what the deal with tyres was - Lorenzo, in fact all the Yamaha riders, seemed to be unable to plant the front tyre. Soe serious understeer in the fast corners.
Lyria
Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa had this whole 'respect' thing going on, where they would race hard, but not put each other's health at risk. It's going to take Lorenzo a while to come to grips with a rider that doesn't buy into that ethic.
It was a racing move, it was a little dangerous, but probably not as dangerous as hanging it out on full lean at 130mph. But, that's if you are into assigning blame to Marquez. Lorenzo had real understeer issues - he took that corner wider than I had seen anyone else during that race - and realistically, that was probably the worst time to do so.
If Marquez hadn't taken the gaping hole that Lorenzo presented himself with, he would probably have had to submit to his Dad, his crew chief and the boss of Repsol smacking him upside his head (once he got his helmet off)
Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa had this whole 'respect' thing going on, where they would race hard, but not put each other's health at risk. It's going to take Lorenzo a while to come to grips with a rider that doesn't buy into that ethic.
It was a racing move, it was a little dangerous, but probably not as dangerous as hanging it out on full lean at 130mph. But, that's if you are into assigning blame to Marquez. Lorenzo had real understeer issues - he took that corner wider than I had seen anyone else during that race - and realistically, that was probably the worst time to do so.
If Marquez hadn't taken the gaping hole that Lorenzo presented himself with, he would probably have had to submit to his Dad, his crew chief and the boss of Repsol smacking him upside his head (once he got his helmet off)
