Motogp 2013 Round 3: Jerez

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Well if you choose braking points that offer no realistic chance of making a corner (on your own)thats just wrong . It's not a contact sport

Same category as laguna 08 i think
 
Jumkie
3509721367983496

1. "How did that turn out for those guys?" The answer is quite well! Pedrosa went on to get and retain a factory HRC seat, and Stoner a factory Ducati and later a factor HRC. Thats what u 'earn' when u win a few lower category titles and or races. My point, which u may have missed by attempting to cherry pick, was that Aleix has won nothing therefore deserving of nothing! ZERO! Not even the national titles that at least Stoner won combined with lower category GP race wins and runner-up. Take my post in its entire context buddy. Now that is what Pedro & Stoner earned, that is, an opportunity at a competitive premi貥 class seat. Aleix has earn nothing, because he has won nothing, not even races. YET, guilible people are seeing his face plastered and like wiki bandit BJC, are impressed enough by seeing his CRT in parc ferme and start calingl for his elevation to a competative bike that others have earned by way of wins & titles (even if they are national titles and lower category GP wins). 2. Well buddy, i'll assume ur using satire with ur "CRT GOAT" comment, otherwise with all do respect, I may have miss judged ur racing knowledge & perception if u think Edwards' WSBK titles amount to jack ...., and do not amount to anything of significant value. Ur comparison to Aleix, who hasn't at very least won one solitary race, let alone a premiere class title in a given series, whether it be a national or international, to Edwards' race wins and titles of respective prestige is no less silly.


 


My racing knowledge is sound. Two WSBK titles is equivalent to exactly jack .... in MotoGP. Edwards has ridden factory bikes and been in the championship for 10 years without winning a race. He couldn't even beat Hayden to the line ffs. Either of the Espagaro bros would smoke him on any bike any day of the week. Well on road racing bikes anyway...
 
Sloth_27
3510051368006639

My racing knowledge is sound. Two WSBK titles is equivalent to exactly jack .... in MotoGP. Edwards has ridden factory bikes and been in the championship for 10 years without winning a race. He couldn't even beat Hayden to the line ffs. Either of the Espagaro bros would smoke him on any bike any day of the week. Well on road racing bikes anyway...


Complete rubbish,if you think the Espagaro brothers who have won nothing can be compaired to Edwards who traded places and wins with the likes of Fogarty,Baylis,Haga and crafar to name a few you are very much deluded, Edwards form has dropped no question but he was competative against multiple superbike champions and Gp race winners, you're racing knowledge is not sound.The Espagaro's are Spanish and getting the usual over the top support from the Spanish pay masters who run the show.
 
thedeal
3510071368008137

Complete rubbish,if you think the Espagaro brothers who have won nothing can be compaired to Edwards who traded places and wins with the likes of Fogarty,Baylis,Haga and crafar to name a few you are very much deluded, Edwards form has dropped no question but he was competative against multiple superbike champions and Gp race winners, you're racing knowledge is not sound.The Espagaro's are Spanish and getting the usual over the top support from the Spanish pay masters who run the show.


 


Yes. Excellent WSBK rider. Has very little to do with being a world class GP rider though. And that is history anyway, right now, they are faster than him.


 


I just don't think the Espagaro's are really getting special attention. One will be the fastest CRT rider, and one will likely be Moto2 world champ. The Dorna/Spain/Ezy conspiracy is being overplayed.
 
Sloth_27
3510051368006639

My racing knowledge is sound. Two WSBK titles is equivalent to exactly jack .... in MotoGP. Edwards has ridden factory bikes and been in the championship for 10 years without winning a race. He couldn't even beat Hayden to the line ffs. Either of the Espagaro bros would smoke him on any bike any day of the week. Well on road racing bikes anyway...


 


You can tell La Cockaracha that if he is able to research without help, he will find that I posted the same about Espargaro, in this very thread - he's won nothing, just a single, solitary podium in all his time in GP - but hey, he never let facts get in the way of writing 1000 words of drivel...
 
Kropotkin
3510161368012390

Jorge Lorenzo speaks:


 


http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2013/May/may0713-lorenzo-breaks-silence-on-marquez/


 


And Jum just has his tampons in a twist because the  2013 MotoGP World Champion won the first of many races he will win this year.


 


 


"<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;Having had time to analyse the incident and compose his thoughts following a one-day test at the Jerez track yesterday (Monday), Lorenzo finally offered his thoughts on the incident and he said he had not learnt from his heart-breaking last corner defeat to bitter rival Valentino Rossi in the Catalunya race back in 2009. <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;Lorenzo and Rossi engaged in a titanic battle, which the Spaniard thought he had won entering the final corner.<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;But he lost out as Rossi produced an audacious but clean pass to snatch one of the most memorable victories in the modern MotoGP era."
<p style="margin-left:10px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; 


I think too many years of Stoner, Pedrosa and Lorenzo being polite to each other has made Jorge go to sleep - I want to see the guy that fought so hard with Rossi at Catalunya - that was a heart-stopping series of corners.


 


Maybe this is the wake-up call he needs to go back to the scrappy little bugger that held the 250s by the scruff of their neck.
 
BJ.C
3510201368013173

"<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;Having had time to analyse the incident and compose his thoughts following a one-day test at the Jerez track yesterday (Monday), Lorenzo finally offered his thoughts on the incident and he said he had not learnt from his heart-breaking last corner defeat to bitter rival Valentino Rossi in the Catalunya race back in 2009. <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;Lorenzo and Rossi engaged in a titanic battle, which the Spaniard thought he had won entering the final corner.<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;But he lost out as Rossi produced an audacious but clean pass to snatch one of the most memorable victories in the modern MotoGP era."
<p style="margin-left:10px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; 


I think too many years of Stoner, Pedrosa and Lorenzo being polite to each other has made Jorge go to sleep - I want to see the guy that fought so hard with Rossi at Catalunya - that was a heart-stopping series of corners.


 


Maybe this is the wake-up call he needs to go back to the scrappy little bugger that held the 250s by the scruff of their neck.


Couldn't agree more
 
BJ.C
3510201368013173

"<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;Having had time to analyse the incident and compose his thoughts following a one-day test at the Jerez track yesterday (Monday), Lorenzo finally offered his thoughts on the incident and he said he had not learnt from his heart-breaking last corner defeat to bitter rival Valentino Rossi in the Catalunya race back in 2009. <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;Lorenzo and Rossi engaged in a titanic battle, which the Spaniard thought he had won entering the final corner.<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;But he lost out as Rossi produced an audacious but clean pass to snatch one of the most memorable victories in the modern MotoGP era."
<p style="margin-left:10px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; 


I think too many years of Stoner, Pedrosa and Lorenzo being polite to each other has made Jorge go to sleep - I want to see the guy that fought so hard with Rossi at Catalunya - that was a heart-stopping series of corners.


 


Maybe this is the wake-up call he needs to go back to the scrappy little bugger that held the 250s by the scruff of their neck.


No problems with Rossi's pass in that race (as opposed to the Gibernau Jerez last corner pass) but on that occasion Jorge had a championship all but won, and on this occasion may also not have wanted to lay it all on the line so early in the season, as others have said, particularly since early indications are that he may have to rely on his proven ability to finish high no matter what this year. Marquez, on the other hand, can win races but not the championship this year with no recriminations at all. I think Jorge will still mix it with Marquez or anyone else if that is the best tactic and/or strategy for him to win the championship, or a race if the championship is decided. The guy in his maturity is ice cold, and you can bet this move by Marquez will be accounted for in his computations in the future.
 
If Jum's goal is to get as much keyboard action back as he's given....


Objective achieved.
 
For those that have rightly or wrongly defended MM's lunge....allow me a wry smile at the thought of the uproar if Johnny Rea had pulled a similar move during his brief tenure at Repsol Honda last year..or indeed if he replicated it in WSBk.
 
cliché guevara
3509431367957358

So if you've been crap in the junior category it's absolutely impossible to improve?


 


Does this question really require an answer?  I'll assume your point asking this rhetorical question is that because you and others somehow deem (based on what I have no idea, nor is it even reasonably measurable) he has "improved" (from basically winning zero) that he somehow has earned some kind of shot at something competitive.  Well then, lets apply this logic to ALL the riders who have won nothing, or a few races here and there.  Lets start a system where all the riders 10-40 from the lower categories all get a few wildcards on the ART (or even a Tech3...ala Bradley).  Then when one of them looks like they have "improved" (based on some unmeasurable arbitrary feeling) lets have them replace a satellite rider who has won a fair amount of lower category (or other significant series) races or title(s).  Maybe Aleix can replace Bradl, since so far the German doesn't seem to manage to stay on the bike.   :....:


 
cliché guevara
3509431367957358

I'm not fooled into thinking that the art is significantly worse than the 21l duc but credit where it is due


Or do we rate rdp as a crap rider all of the sudden?


 


I'm glad you say this, as this is one thing that really does get lost.  ART is a soft factory entry, with the benefit of more fuel, special tires, and more engines.  It reminds me of "factory" Suzuki who instead of being made to follow some consistency of rules were given a few extra engines (partly because Baustista was efficient at crashing them).   This also speaks to the unclear picture regarding the parity of the CRTs.  If the ART entries are the HRC equivalent, then which are the GP<strike>12</strike>13 equivalent?  Difficult to surmise.  But, you make a good argument pointing to DePuniet's performance.  I do rate Randy a good rider, and as such given his lower categories stats (a few wins, podiums, fast laps, poles) earned an opportunity to ride a semi-competative bike (hell even a factory rider...if you consider Kawasaki a "factory", and satellite LCRs).  Now, based on his poor performance there (he had many DNFs) he was the odd man out when the League failed to maintain a quality number of entires and created this ........ CRT filler class.  The point, Randy did have his chance (a good or bad chance is debatable) based on his lower category performance.  I'd say DePuniet's performance has been waning a bit.  
 
Kropotkin
3509961368002485

The fail is strong in this one.


 


 
Kropotkin
3510161368012390

Jorge Lorenzo speaks:


 


[Irrelevant]


 


And Jum just has his tampons in a twist because the  2013 MotoGP World Champion won the first of many races he will win this year.


 


 


:lol: Well....I'm not the one who threw up some BS into the virtual ether hoping it would stick or sway opinion, THEN retract it when a few informed people were not buying it.  "Lost the front"?  HAHAHAHAHA!  Honestly, I don't think that was the worst of your statement, giving you the benefit of the doubt as we always do for "experts", perhaps that was an honest mistake.  However, I think the worst was trying to make some point that "Rider B was past rider A..."  to advance your already preposterous points: 1. Marquez had the right of way 2. Lorenzo could have avoided collision by (and believe me, I’m laughing as I type this) ‘brake a little more’ or expected to see Marky there.  Both points are so outlandish, where to begin debunking them…  
 
Ok, with all do respect friend:
 
1. Marquez was ahead momentarily…Well no ...., that is because Rider B did NOT brake adequately (that is called an ERROR) (you can thank the laws of physics for what happened next) and figured he would just use Rider A as a berm. Even if that was not Marc’s intent (as you tried to rationalize, in addition to mind reading), the ERROR resulted in the collision.  
 
2. Lorenzo could have avoided collision…Which according to your carefully constructed narrative, this happened as a result of <u>Lorenzo & Friends</u> deciding to race professionally, cleanly, and safely—as you put it, “where riding attitudes have changed to be more respectful.” And why would that be?!  Not that any of these riders (two of which are premier class multi-champions) had good reason to clean up the on track etiquette toward safety, right? (sarcasm for affect)  You disparaged this 'imagined agreement' (unless you are prepared to publish the press release where they sat down to make such a pact) in hopes of advancing your position that ‘Marquez was not dangerous.’  You said Lorenzo did not expect anybody to have the "temerity" to be in that gap (your are overplaying and giving positive connotation to a poorly executed over-ethusiastic braking ERROR).  Well, of course he did NOT expect this, that is because riders are expected to brake adequately into turns and follow an appropriate trajectory without causing collision.  You attempt to laud and glorify Moto2 race tactics, yet its here in the junior categories where riders often make mistakes as would make logical sense.  The assumption is once promoted to the post-graduate category, that their skill level has improved and indifference to precarious tactics has been enlightened for awareness of themselves and fellow competitors. Lets follow the natural conclusion of your ill-concieved logic, what next, are you going to laud and praise the racing tactics of the mini-racers because they are more cut-throat and reckless and have the "temerity" to do "whatever it takes to win"?  The ADULTS in the room know this attitude comes from the immaturity of a rider not recognizing the inherent dangers of such tactics, something that has been missing in the racing education of Marquez, NOT ONLY by the adults in his crew, but the adults in race direction who have turned a blind eye, the adults writing "expert" opinions who are flatering his employment of immature exuberance mistaking it for praiseworthy racing "temerity", the adult spectators applauding racing mistakes because of the excitement it generates (and that nobody got seriously injured).  Then we ask why some of these athletes go out and do some stupid .... on the field of play or in their private lives? Its because of this cavalier attitude that these youngster grow up believing is the reality of life--but its .........  
 
(I tried keeping it brief for your benefit...and since I had to go change my tampon)
 
Jumkie
3510541368044662



:lol: Well....I'm not the one who threw up some BS into the virtual ether hoping it would stick or sway opinion, THEN retract it when a few informed people were not buying it.  "Lost the front"?  HAHAHAHAHA!  Honestly, I don't think that was the worst of your statement, giving you the benefit of the doubt as we always do for "experts", perhaps that was an honest mistake.  However, I think the worst was trying to make some point that "Rider B was past rider A..."  to advance your already preposterous points: 1. Marquez had the right of way 2. Lorenzo could have avoided collision by (and believe me, I’m laughing as I type this) ‘brake a little more’ or expected to see Marky there.  Both points are so outlandish, where to begin debunking them…  
 
Ok, with all do respect friend:
 
1. Marquez was ahead momentarily…Well no ...., that is because Rider B did NOT brake adequately (that is called an ERROR) (you can thank the laws of physics for what happened next) and figured he would just use Rider A as a berm. Even if that was not Marc’s intent (as you tried to rationalize, in addition to mind reading), the ERROR resulted in the collision.  
 
2. Lorenzo could have avoided collision…Which according to your carefully constructed narrative, this happened as a result of <u>Lorenzo & Friends</u> deciding to race professionally, cleanly, and safely—as you put it, “where riding attitudes have changed to be more respectful.” And why would that be?!  Not that any of these riders (two of which are premier class multi-champions) had good reason to clean up the on track etiquette toward safety, right? (sarcasm for affect)  You disparaged this 'imagined agreement' (unless you are prepared to publish the press release where they sat down to make such a pact) in hopes of advancing your position that ‘Marquez was not dangerous.’  You said Lorenzo did not expect anybody to have the "temerity" to be in that gap (your are overplaying and giving positive connotation to a poorly executed over-ethusiastic braking ERROR).  Well, of course he did NOT expect this, that is because riders are expected to brake adequately into turns and follow an appropriate trajectory without causing collision.  You attempt to laud and glorify Moto2 race tactics, yet its here in the junior categories where riders often make mistakes as would make logical sense.  The assumption is once promoted to the post-graduate category, that their skill level has improved and indifference to precarious tactics has been enlightened for awareness of themselves and fellow competitors. Lets follow the natural conclusion of your ill-concieved logic, what next, are you going to laud and praise the racing tactics of the mini-racers because they are more cut-throat and reckless and have the "temerity" to do "whatever it takes to win"?  The ADULTS in the room know this attitude comes from the immaturity of a rider not recognizing the inherent dangers of such tactics, something that has been missing in the racing education of Marquez, NOT ONLY by the adults in his crew, but the adults in race direction who have turned a blind eye, the adults writing "expert" opinions who are flatering his employment of immature exuberance mistaking it for praiseworthy racing "temerity", the adult spectators applauding racing mistakes because of the excitement it generates (and that nobody got seriously injured).  Then we ask why some of these athletes go out and do some stupid .... on the field of play or in their private lives? Its because of this cavalier attitude that these youngster grow up believing is the reality of life--but its .........  
 
(I tried keeping it brief for your benefit...and since I had to go change my tampon)


 


Jum. I realize how angry it must make you to see a Spaniard succeed in Repsol colors (that's Nicky's bike, dammit!!) but that was no mistake. The gap was there, Marquez went for it, Lorenzo hadn't counted on him being there, the two collided. At least Lorenzo didn't spend the next hour rubbing his shoulder like some camp 19th Century music hall star. As I wrote on Sunday night, the most impressive part of Marquez' race was after he ran wide at Dry Sack. Mortals run wide there and it's game over, they never make up the ground they just lost. Marquez was back with Lorenzo almost immediately. That's a game-changer, because it means he can afford to take risks, to make mistakes.


 


Oh, and speaking as a man who will be fifty soon, .... THE ADULTS. Adults never achieved anything, everything great in this world has been built by reckless, feisty, irresponsible, rebellious youngsters, flush with the hubris of youth.
 
All I know about the MM JLO incident is that it's spiced up the next few races....JLO to give him some back at the first opportunity ???
 
@Kropo, did Rossi's crashed played any part in his average performance, was he running his 2nd bike or the bike they rebuilt after the crash? I know he did 4 or 5 laps in low 1.39s at one point and normally he can match his quali pace in the race quite often.
 
inam
3510581368049545

@Kropo, did Rossi's crashed played any part in his average performance, was he running his 2nd bike or the bike they rebuilt after the crash? I know he did 4 or 5 laps in low 1.39s at one point and normally he can match his quali pace in the race quite often.


 


No. They never found a set up which was competitive. Simple as that.
 
Kropotkin
3510551368047641

Jum. I realize how angry it must make you to see a Spaniard succeed in Repsol colors (that's Nicky's bike, dammit!!) but that was no mistake. 


 


Ah, yes, the trickery of deflection.  I'll entertain it.  You and I both know, it was never his bike. :)


 


So you declare, "that was no mistake."  So then, Marquez decelerated by applying the brakes adequately to negotiate that turn appropriately according to you.  Well then, what is there to debate?  Or he, according to you, intended to run wide (as surely there was no way he had decelerated enough to make that turn normally, or are you going to ignore the physics too)?  So if this was "no mistake" then knew there would either be a collision or force Lorenzo to take evasive action within the reaction time allotted (as you absurdly declared).  This makes sense to you? Well... what can I say to convince you the moon is not made of cheese?


 
Kropotkin
3510551368047641

The gap was there, Marquez went for it, Lorenzo hadn't counted on him being there, the two collided. At least Lorenzo didn't spend the next hour rubbing his shoulder like some camp 19th Century music hall star. As I wrote on Sunday night, the most impressive part of Marquez' race was after he ran wide at Dry Sack. Mortals run wide there and it's game over, they never make up the ground they just lost. Marquez was back with Lorenzo almost immediately. That's a game-changer, because it means he can afford to take risks, to make mistakes.


 


Oh, and speaking as a man who will be fifty soon, .... THE ADULTS. Adults never achieved anything, everything great in this world has been built by reckless, feisty, irresponsible, rebellious youngsters, flush with the hubris of youth.


 


 
There was a "gap" for Capirossi to barge through Harada, yet you called it "criminal".  What is the difference?  NONE! You have chosen not to debate the relevant facts because as much as you blindly holding fast to your position defending Marquez (which honestly is quite fascinating to me), you simply cannot argue on logic.  So you turn to over-simplification or ignore the facts all together.  
 
Sir, there is a "gap" (that is space) just about at every turn unless the rider is on the curbing.  That does not mean the rider in tow can cleaning go through that "gap".  If we applied your absurd logic, then riders close enough to the lead rider could barge by at will, all that would be necessary is to not apply the brakes and take the inside "space" and let the collision reaction do the rest.  This type of maneuver would be correct according the convenient logic you are attempting to apply; but you know (or I at least I think you know) this would be wrong.
 
Krops, you do not look a day over 60 my good man. Then again, Bradley Smith doesn’t look a day younger than 40, well, at least based on his Rogaine consumption (I hope its not a banned substance).  Besides the receding hairline you two have in common, you both have the ability to shape-shift opinions when it suits…I mean, he was a ....... liar when he accused Marquez of cheating, coming from a place of sour grapes, right; but now he is the Dalai Lama when he endorsed your assessment on the Jerez 13 incident!  That’s quite the cake you are eating.  
 
.... authority  .... rules, rah rah rah!  Ah yes, great battle cry for a rock concert...but for 400lbs of metal, flesh, and blood at 300+kph, not so much.  Your attempts to rally popularity is baffling (though again, quite fascinating).  Kids are just so pure of spirit and admirable feisty recklessness…that’s never ended bad, right?  You attempted to make a distinction between Simonchelli and Marquez, your assessment being Sic’s dangerous maneuvers were more akin to “buffoonery” while you assign Marquez the more lofty “dynamic package” (the best of everything). Thing is, unintended injury makes no such distinction or prejudices.  This is a kid who nearly ...... himself out of normal vision and equilibrium, and gsent a medivac airlift to a Thai rider, where by mere luck did not result in a murder/suicide; YOUR caviler answer to that is, ‘.... it kid, keep doing what you're doing.
 

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