Moto Gp vs Superbikes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Oct 15 2007, 04:57 PM) [snapback]95347[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Having watched the season review of superbikes yesterday it made me realise what a big difference there is compared to moto gp.

Practically every race had two or three riders at least by the last lap competing for the win.

I know its been argued about many times the lack of close racing but is superbikes going to eclipse moto gp as the elite class?

Moto gp bikes now are 800cc next year xerox ducati will be 1200 and the others 990 cc . Seems odd the elite class has much less horsepower.

Opinions?

motogp should always be considered the pinical of racing because it prototype's but they better not rest on there lorrols , wsb has a huge following for a good reason.
i will watch both.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Oct 15 2007, 11:57 AM) [snapback]95347[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Having watched the season review of superbikes yesterday it made me realise what a big difference there is compared to moto gp.

Practically every race had two or three riders at least by the last lap competing for the win.

I know its been argued about many times the lack of close racing but is superbikes going to eclipse moto gp as the elite class?

Moto gp bikes now are 800cc next year xerox ducati will be 1200 and the others 990 cc . Seems odd the elite class has much less horsepower.

Opinions?


But much faster lap times.Its not all about Horsepower,You could probably build a WSB for the amount of money a Gp team has in suspension , brakes and electronics.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 15 2007, 05:27 PM) [snapback]95353[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
motogp should always be considered the pinical of racing because it prototype's but they better not rest on there lorrols , wsb has a huge following for a good reason.
i will watch both.

Me too,as always.Ultimate respect for both sides of the 2 wheeled coin.

I'm not sure the 1200cc twins will be more powerful than the 800cc prototype engines. It will be quite close.

And if it weren't for the fuel and weight restrictions you bet the 800cc engines could be much more powerful

For as long as GP is prototype and superbike is production bikes, Gp will be better

WSBK edged it for me this year.

About horsepower, the GP bikes are much higher than you can imagine.

Don't trust even a bit in the manufacturer sites claiming ~220. It's all fantasy.

My friend has a lot of Italian specialized Magazines and one of them claim that last year Ducati GP6 has 309 HP, followed by Kawasaki with 306 and the others I don't remember.

Also, a gossip around here says Alex Barros's sister confirmed last years bike higher than 300 HP.

Also, you can seek videos on Youtube where a 499 BHP Turbo Charged Hayabusa (piloted by Ghost Rider) has no more acceleration than the GP bikes and can reach about 330 KM/h.

So, you sum this to the HP/Weight ratio and you can confirm that this 800cc GP has more than 265 HP easily.

Also, speed specialists and engineers says that there is no way a 220 HP bike having that kind of acceleration. It's quite impossible, even with the most advanced fairing.

Also, when you are at more than 300 KM/h, to climb up more just 2 KM/h, you'll need about 5-10 HP because air resistance is almost a wall at this speed.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Superbike always is 2 to 4 seconds behind GP bikes, by lap in the same circuit, this is absolutely a huge difference.

Do they state where they took the dyno reading from?

Lol they're nowhere near 265hp, but I think around 220 is a sensible guess.

I Thought all new stuff for any factory WSB team, comes as a hand me down from MotoGP?
Well hand me down technology !

Grand Prix wins for me everytime.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gui22a @ Oct 15 2007, 10:16 PM) [snapback]95402[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
About horsepower, the GP bikes are much higher than you can imagine.

Don't trust even a bit in the manufacturer sites claiming ~220. It's all fantasy.

My friend has a lot of Italian specialized Magazines and one of them claim that last year Ducati GP6 has 309 HP, followed by Kawasaki with 306 and the others I don't remember.

Also, a gossip around here says Alex Barros's sister confirmed last years bike higher than 300 HP.

Also, you can seek videos on Youtube where a 499 BHP Turbo Charged Hayabusa (piloted by Ghost Rider) has no more acceleration than the GP bikes and can reach about 330 KM/h.

So, you sum this to the HP/Weight ratio and you can confirm that this 800cc GP has more than 265 HP easily.

Also, speed specialists and engineers says that there is no way a 220 HP bike having that kind of acceleration. It's quite impossible, even with the most advanced fairing.

Also, when you are at more than 300 KM/h, to climb up more just 2 KM/h, you'll need about 5-10 HP because air resistance is almost a wall at this speed.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Superbike always is 2 to 4 seconds behind GP bikes, by lap in the same circuit, this is absolutely a huge difference.

sounds like utter bollock to me.
no way do they make that much. are the measuring from the crank,gearbox or rear wheel ?
are they measuring im bhp, kw,or some other measuring unit ?
if motogp were making that much power per liter the F1 boys would be stealing motogp data not F1 fererri data.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DRILL666 @ Oct 15 2007, 06:17 PM) [snapback]95405[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Do they state where they took the dyno reading from?


I'm not confirming such thing, but there is no way that bikes has only "more than 200 HP" as owners claiming.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Teomolca @ Oct 15 2007, 06:19 PM) [snapback]95407[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Lol they're nowhere near 265hp, but I think around 220 is a sensible guess.


So, explain us how that bikes can speed up faster than a 500 BHP turbo charged Hayabusa:

Link

Don't come speak about traction control.

How much power do you think a 19K RPM engine can produce? Only 200? LOL.....

If a 13K normal GSX-R1000 can produce ~180 HP at the higher revs with spring valves, just think about if a 19K RPM desmodromic or pneumatic engine can produce only 20~40 HP more.

Proportionally, one [email protected] engine can produce more than 250 HP easily.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 15 2007, 06:25 PM) [snapback]95409[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
sounds like utter bollock to me.
no way do they make that much. are the measuring from the crank,gearbox or rear wheel ?
are they measuring im bhp, kw,or some other measuring unit ?
if motogp were making that much power per liter the F1 boys would be stealing motogp data not F1 fererri data.


Yeah, I delayed to believe too, but since I start thinking about if a 220 HP can speed up in that manner, now I don't doubt anything.

Do you forget Desmosedici GP7 reach 347 KM/h in Chinese track at the final speedtrap?

Here, more data to confirm:

Para quem não sabe, uma moto como essas tem apenas 140 kg e mais de 250 cv. De um lado toda essa evolução e de outro, ninguém pode esquecer que em cima estão os pilotos tentando se segurar, mas que em caso de acidente são ejetados a mais de 300 km/h.

bold part means: 'more than 250 CV'

Site: http://www.motonline.com.br/default.asp?co...egoria=5&show=1

Yeah my fried, start believing...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gui22a @ Oct 15 2007, 10:33 PM) [snapback]95413[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

So, explain us how that bikes can speed up faster than a 500 BHP turbo charged Hayabusa:



there are several reason why this is possible.

1. power to weight ratio, turbo busa is far heaver than the feather weight motogp bike, probably twice the weight

2. gearing

3 how quickly the engine reaches its max rev

4. traction, motogp tyres hook up a lot better than your road tyres on the busa.

5. built for purpose. i presume the busa owner built the bike with more than 1 run at a time unlike a motogp bike.

im sure there are loads more reasons as to why.

having said this, because there is no bhp limit i would expect all teams to keep there true power output a secret

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 15 2007, 06:41 PM) [snapback]95414[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
there are several reason why this is possible.

1. power to weight ratio, turbo busa is far heaver than the feather weight motogp bike, probably twice the weight

Motogp -> 220/148 = 1,49 Hp/Kg
Busa supercharged -> 499 bhp ~ 500 HP. 500/270 = 1,85 hp/kg

1. Dismystified !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 15 2007, 06:41 PM) [snapback]95414[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
2. gearing


Gearing? The 1st and 2nd gear of a GP bike is longer than the Busa's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd together.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 15 2007, 06:41 PM) [snapback]95414[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
3 how quickly the engine reaches its max rev


Yeah, here you can assume this as raw power, right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 15 2007, 06:41 PM) [snapback]95414[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
4. traction, motogp tyres hook up a lot better than your road tyres on the busa.


So, look at the speed up between 150 and 250Km/h, where there is almost no loss of traction and you can see that this bikes can speedu up more than a F1 car. Yeah, doubt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXO2eRW8X0

M1 2006 vs Ralf Schumacher's F1. In the WET!!! Look at the final stage, the bike overcome the car.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 15 2007, 06:41 PM) [snapback]95414[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
5. built for purpose. i presume the busa owner built the bike with more than 1 run at a time unlike a motogp bike.

hm....I could not assume a Hayabusa like a Pizza delivery bike.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 15 2007, 06:41 PM) [snapback]95414[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
having said this, because there is no bhp limit i would expect all teams to keep there true power output a secret


Here you talk "the thing".

Roger, I want to believe that bikes has only ~220 HP, but there is no logical, there is no point, it's quite impossible.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gui22a @ Oct 15 2007, 10:16 PM) [snapback]95402[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
About horsepower, the GP bikes are much higher than you can imagine.

Don't trust even a bit in the manufacturer sites claiming ~220. It's all fantasy.

My friend has a lot of Italian specialized Magazines and one of them claim that last year Ducati GP6 has 309 HP, followed by Kawasaki with 306 and the others I don't remember.

Also, a gossip around here says Alex Barros's sister confirmed last years bike higher than 300 HP.

Also, you can seek videos on Youtube where a 499 BHP Turbo Charged Hayabusa (piloted by Ghost Rider) has no more acceleration than the GP bikes and can reach about 330 KM/h.

So, you sum this to the HP/Weight ratio and you can confirm that this 800cc GP has more than 265 HP easily.

Also, speed specialists and engineers says that there is no way a 220 HP bike having that kind of acceleration. It's quite impossible, even with the most advanced fairing.

Also, when you are at more than 300 KM/h, to climb up more just 2 KM/h, you'll need about 5-10 HP because air resistance is almost a wall at this speed.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Superbike always is 2 to 4 seconds behind GP bikes, by lap in the same circuit, this is absolutely a huge difference.


300hp!! You're having a laugh.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gui22a @ Oct 15 2007, 11:07 PM) [snapback]95422[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Motogp -> 220/148 = 1,49 Hp/Kg
Busa supercharged -> 499 bhp ~ 500 HP. 500/270 = 1,85 hp/kg

1. Dismystified !
Gearing? The 1st and 2nd gear of a GP bike is longer than the Busa's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd together.
Yeah, here you can assume this as raw power, right?
So, look at the speed up between 150 and 250Km/h, where there is almost no loss of traction and you can see that this bikes can speedu up more than a F1 car. Yeah, doubt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXO2eRW8X0

M1 2006 vs Ralf Schumacher's F1. In the WET!!! Look at the final stage, the bike overcome the car.
hm....I could not assume a Hayabusa like a Pizza delivery bike.
Here you talk "the thing".

Roger, I want to believe that bikes has only ~220 HP, but there is no logical, there is no point, it's quite impossible.

you got me thinking

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Oct 15 2007, 07:09 PM) [snapback]95424[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
300hp!! You're having a laugh.


This kind of affirmation will make me change my mind, yeah, for sure..

I brought a lot of parameters/arguments to discussion to try to proof that bikes are far from 220 HP and all you brought is this.

Well, you think what you want, I continue doubting about only 220 HP... hahahaa, very funny...

EDIT: About the video F1 vs Motogp, the ground was WET and F1 car has about 10 times more contact area then the bike.

F1 car just rocks in drag, how such 220 hp bike with a "gillete" touching the wet ground can overtake it after 150 km/h?

shiii, that bikes hide much more we can imagine.

Tell me if this has only 220 hp...

Look at this corner exit

More data: a F1 2007 engine is 2400cc and produce about 800HP. Let's divide both by 3 and we get a 800cc F1 engine producing ~267 HP. Both F1 and GP revs at ~19K.

I know in practice this is not much applicable, but we can get an idea.

The power to overcome aerodynamic drag is given by:

P = 1/2 rho v^3 A Cd

P: Power
rho: Density of fluid (air in this case) = 1.292 kg/m^2
v: speed
A: frontal area
Cd: Aero coefficient

Given the top speed of a bike and estimating it's Cd and Area we can calculate the power required to reach that speed.

In our case we know that in a straight long enough (china) the 800cc bikes have managed 333 km/h as a record (let's ignore tailwind and hope it's small enough to be negligible).

v = 333km/h = 92.5m/s

For frontal Area we will take 0.5m^2 (which is a normal figure for a 750cc sports bike)

For Cd we'll take 0.6 (again standard value for a race bike)

So we have:

P = 1/2 1.292 92.5^3 0.5 0.6 = 153Kw = 205hp

If you put your 265hp theory in the formula you get bikes should be doing over 360km/h since that has not happened ...

the conclusion is, stop talking bollocks!

gui22a, you are smoking so much crack you can't even see through the haze to find your way back to common sense.

MGP bikes are narrower and much better sculpted than production bikes ESPECIALLY the super sport GT's like the Hyabusa and the ZX-14. Bone stock, both those bikes hit 300kph with around 180 hp to the ground.

MGP bikes probably make 220 or 230 hp, they have less drag, and they don't have 2 miles straights to hit max speed, so they hit about 330 - 340 on long straights. Why in God's name would a motogp bike with less drag need 60% more hp than a production bike to achieve and extra 40 kph. It's ludicrous.

I understand wind resistance grows exponentially but you're fooling yourself.