I'm not disputing the fact that the guy behind takes the blame, i've already said it was a racing incident. From the clips i've seen, i think Lorenzo moved to the right to get on the correct line, Rossi didnt see him and they made contact. I dont really think that Rossi got in too hot...he was probably concentrating more on Spies cutting his nose off than what was happening to the left of him.
I'm not disputing the fact that the guy behind takes the blame, i've already said it was a racing incident. From the clips i've seen, i think Lorenzo moved to the right to get on the correct line, Rossi didnt see him and they made contact. I dont really think that Rossi got in too hot...he was probably concentrating more on Spies cutting his nose off than what was happening to the left of him.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Rossi was behind Spies all the way down the straight, still behind on the brakes, but then somehow manages to run into Spies side on, so obviously must have been going in faster than Spies and trying to get past him.
See Jumkie's take way back on page 6 because its spot on.
See Jumkie's take way back on page 6 because its spot on.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Get over it Spook ........ you are wrong. Rossi did it to himself, The only real victim here is the guy we hardly hear from ..... Spies. But I would suggest he would already be over it and would have classified it as a racing incident.
The only thing that is getting folk "antsy" is Rossi and the Boppers trying to somehow claim it was Lorenzo's fault. That aint a racing incident .... thats just being gutless ...... and folk don't like to race such folk as they tend to be repeat offenders .......
The only thing that is getting folk "antsy" is Rossi and the Boppers trying to somehow claim it was Lorenzo's fault. That aint a racing incident .... thats just being gutless ...... and folk don't like to race such folk as they tend to be repeat offenders .......
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Whoever raced even minibikes, knows very well that a guy changing his line when all riders are in a pack -- especially if he is barely in front and comes into you line abruptly, to the point of touching your bike with his tail and leaving a dent in your fairing, as Lorenzo did to Rossi -- , is behaving dangerously. I've seen people getting really angry about these episodes, when they think it's done on purpose. Rossi had only one way to go at that point, and that was wide -- but Spies was there, following his own legitimate line. So since Rossi is not Houdini and cannot disappear in thin air, he tried to brake some more and down he went. That was better than crashing into Spies directly, I think. But the initiator of the mishap was Lorenzo.
If the same thing had happened to Stoner, we would have seen some fireworks between him and Lorenzo after the race, be assured.
If the same thing had happened to Stoner, we would have seen some fireworks between him and Lorenzo after the race, be assured.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Whoever raced even minibikes, knows very well that a guy changing his line when all riders are in a pack -- especially if he is barely in front and comes into you line abruptly, to the point of touching your bike with his tail and leaving a dent in your fairing, as Lorenzo did to Rossi -- , is behaving dangerously. I've seen people getting really angry about these episodes, when they think it's done on purpose. Rossi had only one way to go at that point, and that was wide -- but Spies was there, following his own legitimate line. So since Rossi is not Houdini and cannot disappear in thin air, he tried to brake some more and down he went. That was better than crashing into Spies directly, I think. But the initiator of the mishap was Lorenzo.
If the same thing had happened to Stoner, we would have seen some fireworks between him and Lorenzo after the race, be assured.
It was quite obvious Rossi did the erratic line change, everybody else was just approaching the apex, but Rossi actually swerved violently toward the inside line. Had he been less desperate he would have got through. Lorenzo did absolutely nothing wrong, Rossi did.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
In fact Rossi did a quite erratic line change, after being touched by Lorenzo... Your spatial perceptions are ok, it is the temporal ones that are all mixed up. That's where the mind intervenes probably..
You are also absolutely right that Rossi could have got through. There is even photographic evidence of that:
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Whoever raced even minibikes, knows very well that a guy changing his line when all riders are in a pack -- especially if he is barely in front and comes into you line abruptly, to the point of touching your bike with his tail and leaving a dent in your fairing, as Lorenzo did to Rossi -- , is behaving dangerously. I've seen people getting really angry about these episodes, when they think it's done on purpose. Rossi had only one way to go at that point, and that was wide -- but Spies was there, following his own legitimate line. So since Rossi is not Houdini and cannot disappear in thin air, he tried to brake some more and down he went. That was better than crashing into Spies directly, I think. But the initiator of the mishap was Lorenzo.
If the same thing had happened to Stoner, we would have seen some fireworks between him and Lorenzo after the race, be assured.
He wasnt trying to brake some more and down he went, when he got into Spies, his brake lever got punched and down he went. I still see it as a racing incident that has a pinch of Rossi being desperate to make something happen.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
In fact Rossi did a quite erratic line change, after being touched by Lorenzo... Your spatial perceptions are ok, it is the temporal ones that are all mixed up. That's where the mind intervenes probably..
You are also absolutely right that Rossi could have got through. There is even photographic evidence of that:
Ah I see now where the Boppers are getting their "evidence"!
I dont think it was either of the riders fault, i've maintained from the get-go that it was a racing incident...
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Thanks for the interesting story. I disagree that Lorenzo walked away unscathed, Lorenzo was not left alone, he did not get the glory of winning, something he should have done given Stoner's unfortunate brake issue. Sure, he made up 4 points, but its one less race, and I'm sure its playing on his mind that he couldn't even beat the 2nd best Honda rider, let alone the 1st in the coming rounds. Interestingly, the guy who did win perhaps also received a bit of positive Karma, in that the last year Japan was rather cruel to the midget, and this time it handed him a nice comfortable victory. Btw, wasn't it nice that all the Jap riders finished in the points?
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Pretty much how I see it. Except I added one words above. This was a classic racing incident if there ever was one, and by saying that, generally it means no blame to be case, however, if we are going to blame somebody, blaming it on Lorenzo is in incorrect as you say above.
I'm willing to chalk it up to a racing incidents and leave blame out of it if peeps are willing to stop blaming the wrong rider in the incident.
Agreed, i'm sure if an interviewer was to ask Rossi about what happened, he would probably deny making a mistake himself. Then Roger would kick off about how ungracious he is...
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Whoever raced even minibikes, knows very well that a guy changing his line when all riders are in a pack -- especially if he is barely in front and comes into you line abruptly, to the point of touching your bike with his tail and leaving a dent in your fairing, as Lorenzo did to Rossi -- , is behaving dangerously. I've seen people getting really angry about these episodes, when they think it's done on purpose. Rossi had only one way to go at that point, and that was wide -- but Spies was there, following his own legitimate line. So since Rossi is not Houdini and cannot disappear in thin air, he tried to brake some more and down he went. That was better than crashing into Spies directly, I think. But the initiator of the mishap was Lorenzo.
If the same thing had happened to Stoner, we would have seen some fireworks between him and Lorenzo after the race, be assured.
1. Rossi changed his line all over the place in the span of those two corners, changing lines is not inherently wrong, its a shuffle to the corner and people have to go into turns two even three abreast until they all get sorted.
2. The only one behaving dangerously, if we are going to call this dangerous, was Rossi, because he did not concede after being beaten to the space, see number 3.
3. Rossi had many options, but only ONE correct one, that was to roll off. He didn't do this and thought he could just force Spies to take an even wider turn (as he's done his whole life imposing his will on others making them concede, he's made a career out of run people off, even in this "mishap" that you blame Lorenzo for actually started when Rossi pushed Hayden into the dirt.).
4. There would have been no "mishap" had Rossi done the right thing and rolled off. If that happens, they all get through. Spies doesn't get his race all screwed up thanks to Rossi, and Rossi can then continue his race to finish a comfortable top 10.
5. Thankfully, on this one the perpetrator got his just reward and Rossi went down. Though he still managed to screw up Spies race.
6. Minibikes? They are fun to watch, yes, but the risks you take on minibikes usually means you fall over and then get back up, on GP bikes, the risk is significantly more.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Hahahaha
If you had more post like this I'd leave you alone. But I imagine its when you type what your brain manages to think is when we run into problems.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
It seems to me that the desperate one was Lorenzo, first going into the grass and then changing his line rather aggressively.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
Talpa, please hijacking other people's accounts!
J, you usually make sense.
12949:Got Glasses.jpg]
As I see it, Lorenzo's change of track position was smooth and predictable; he steered in a straight line to his turn-in point. In Rossi's slight defense, it looks like Lorenzo made up about half a bike length on the brakes, and may not have been visible until Rossi turned in on him. I still see Rossi as the one initiating contact.
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Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Talpa, please hijacking other people's accounts!
J, you usually make sense.
12949:Got Glasses.jpg]
As I see it, Lorenzo's change of track position was smooth and predictable; he steered in a straight line to his turn-in point. In Rossi's slight defense, it looks like Lorenzo made up about half a bike length on the brakes, and may not have been visible until Rossi turned in on him. I still see Rossi as the one initiating contact.
Thanks for the picture Geo. Though I disagree, J4rno is just a less ballsy version of Talpa. The picture however is totally conclusive and proves J4nro's point, clearly it was Lorenzo in the grass. Geo, don't forget, Lorenzo was running the white and red livery, clearly the bike in the grass is white and red (though may I suggest you adjust the color on your screen, that looks a like a very bright red, almost like Ducati red).
There is a few blaming Lorenzo for this incident, saying it all started when he was erratic which lead to a series of unfortunate events. Having seen the replay several times, I haven't read them mention Rossi pushing Nicky wide. I'm glad at least one persona noticed it.
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