Michelin tires topic

JPSLotus said:

Rossi used the hard compound Bridgestones to great success in Argentina, Kropo.

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Kropotkin said:

Tire colors were decided last year.

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Kropotkin said:

If anything, Stoner's retirement was a symptom of how broken the old system was. Ironically, he was forced into retirement because of the resistance to change by his former employer, even though he denied right to the end that the growing influence of electronics was the fault of Dorna, not Honda. Despite Honda's public pronouncements that they would consider leaving if spec electronics were banned, and Dorna's public push to introduce and simplify the electronics.

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WVMotoGP99 said:

Rossi owned it. Didn't blame the tire.

MotoGP Americas: Rossi: 'You make a small mistake, you pay' | MotoGP 0


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JPSLotus said:

Great stuff Kitty...how was it talking to Nakamoto? Always wondered since Japanese can be difficult to read. He did smile at the end when MM crossed the finish line.

MM did say the front tire on his RCV was shredded.

I was really shocked by the decision to go with the soft front and was thinking he might get off to a big lead, then cough it up towards the end.

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JPSLotus said:

Great stuff Kitty...how was it talking to Nakamoto? Always wondered since Japanese can be difficult to read. He did smile at the end when MM crossed the finish line.

MM did say the front tire on his RCV was shredded.

I was really shocked by the decision to go with the soft front and was thinking he might get off to a big lead, then cough it up towards the end.

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Motokitty said:

Nakamoto was very nice old man. He gladly got in pic with me and we chatted a bit.

I just want to thank you all who posts here in the forum cus I don't think I could carry semi decent conversation with him and Avintia crew if I didn't read all your insightful posts. Thanks.

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JohnnyKnockdown said:

Your welcome. Without my contributions Im sure you couldnt of pulled it off

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As the European round of the MotoGP championship kicks off at Jerez, Michelin is expecting the challenges provided by more familiar circuits to be “a little bit easier” than what passed in the second and third races of 2016.

That is the view of Michelin Racing technical director Nicolas Goubert, who along with others involved in the French tyre manufacturer's two-wheel operation, endured an eventful two weeks in Argentina and Austin.

Fresh from receiving almost universal praise for both the performance and endurance of its front and rear tyres in Qatar, the scarcely used and radically demanding Termas de Rio Hondo circuit threw up a spate of challenges for the firm in only Michelin's second MotoGP race since the close of 2008.

Scott Redding's apparent rear tyre failure on the Saturday of that weekend caused Goubert and other senior members of Michelin's MotoGP effort to – initially – pull the two available rear tyre compounds from the allocation, only for weather to intervene.

A 'safety tyre' that had only been tested by test rider Colin Edwards, was introduced for the race. Yet, morning race day rain put paid to that plan, depriving riders of a necessary session to sample the new rubber before racing it. Thus a two-part race with an enforced bike (and tyre) stop went ahead with riders using the rear tyres that were available to them in free practice and qualifying.

It was on that Saturday evening in Argentina that Goubert and senior staff decided Michelin needed to build two new rear tyre compounds with a stiffer construction based on the 'safety tyre' in the handful of days between the second and third rounds of the year.

“We took the decision for the Sunday to do a full race with the extra type of [safety] tyres but because of the rain we couldn't,” said Goubert. “But at the same time we made a decision to race [in Austin] with the same type of tyres. We knew we didn't have them available so we knew we had to build them from scratch.”

Did building a new rear tyre and then transporting it from Michelin headquarters in France to Texas in a matter of days stretch the MotoGP operation to the full?

“I think so! That's the right word. It was quite tough to get them here and I must say that the organisers understood the situation and let us bring the tyres day after day. Then the riders had the tyres on time to use when they wanted to. It was a little bit stronger the construction. Until we know what happened with the tyre from Scott we had to take measures to make sure no incident would happen.”

The softer of the two rear compounds arrived in Austin on Thursday night, giving riders the full weekend to test its capabilities. The medium rear was flown in a day later, meaning FP3 was the rider's first chance to sample it. Although there were reports of tyre wear, feedback of both compounds was generally positive.

“We're really happy with what happened [in Austin],” Goubert continued. “Argentina was a hectic weekend. We came here with that new construction having different compounds suited to the track. The good news was that the riders quite liked the rear tyres.

“There was not such a big difference compared to what they had before and they all feared that there would have been a bigger difference compared to what there was actually. That was a very good result for us. It was still a track that we didn't have a lot of experience with. We have to tune the front tyres a little bit better for next year and that's something that we'll look at very carefully.”

Like Argentina, Austin saw a number of riders crash out of proceedings but Dani Pedrosa, Valentino Rossi and Cal Crutchlow all admitted to making mistakes - albeit small ones - which led to their undoing in racing conditions.

From rider feedback, there was no specific fault with the tyre. It was more the precision needed with the front tyre is such that, taking anything other than the perfect line on track can have disastrous consequences, as Jorge Lorenzo explained.

“Michelin improve the front every time more and more but still we don't have the confidence,” said the reigning world champion after the race in Austin. “In the past you could lose the front but you could save the crash. Now if you lose the front there are much more chances you could crash and go out of the track. This is the next step to improve.”

Marc Marquez, who won both races in Argentina and the USA, added, “The thing is about the tyres is you try to control the limit. The thing is people always arrive in the circuit with the reference, the set-up from last year. We must understand that this year the tyres are different and the riding style is different. Of course, on the first day I arrive here and I was braking at the same point, like Bridgestone and I was not able to stop the bike. Always you must understand this limit.”

Goubert admitted Michelin had yet to achieve the optimum front-end feel at both circuits, which are particularly demanding on the front end of the bike.

“These two tracks, Argentina and Austin, are quite demanding on the front,” he explained. “That's not something that we worked on a lot during the entire preseason because all the tracks we've been to are – compared to these ones – soft on the front end of the bikes.

“We had to come up with different compounds. The one in Argentina was too hard I would say, with a lack of grip. This one [a new medium compound that was previously tested by Casey Stoner in Qatar] was a little bit better but not yet at the level that we would like to be at.”

The benefits of arriving at a race with previous testing experience were all-too-apparent in Qatar, when Lorenzo posted a new lap record on the 20th of the 22-lap race and posted a race time seven seconds faster than the previous year to match.

Michelin now arrives in Jerez, a track at which Honda, Ducati and Aprilia riders tested in November, 2015, and Goubert believes the French firm “won't be in the unknown” as they have information from several of the upcoming European circuits.

“It will be a lesser challenge because we know the tracks a lot better in Europe,” he said. “Although we haven't been to all of them in MotoGP and some of them – like the Sachsenring – are quite tough but we know these places so we won't be in the unknown as we were here so it should be a little bit easier. Then we're getting a little experience weekend after weekend so hopefully it will get easier and easier.”
Read more at MotoGP News - Michelin hoping to have cleared biggest hurdle in 2016

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JPSLotus said:

Back in the day when Michelin was supplying tires in F1, their tires were far better than the Bridgestone tires of the same period. They provided more overall grip, but to get the front tires to bite because of the square profile and larger contact patch they had. It took a very specific driving technique that was extremely difficult to turn the tires on. I've been thinking that perhaps the current Michelin's still deploy this philosophy...yes it's motorcycle tires versus F1 tires, but Michelin is always looking to play around with ideas in their tire constructs.

Interestingly, Fernando Alonso was the only one who was able to get the front tires to bite and get the maximum grip out of them. He would brake earlier and turn in earlier than most people, and this would cause the front tires to start sliding so he could rotate the rear of the car around. As soon as the front bit into the pavement, max grip would be on, he would reduce steering wheel lock and be on the throttle in the middle of the corner. The Renault of the time designed their rear suspension in conjunction with Michelin to get the post out of the tires, so the rear of the R25 was extremely planted as well to allow for traction.

Doesn't that use of the front to slide and the rear to rotate sound eerily like a particular Spanish rider?

This is an onboard lap of Catalunya 2005.



In the corners that are not flat out, you can see Alonso is turning the wheel and the front is sliding at a slip angle (and consider how early he is turning in) but then the front bites, and as soon as the front bites, he is on the throttle in the middle of the corner, clips the apex and is out of the corner without even running wide in spite of the early turn in. That requires ungodly tire feel to get that bite point right, and again it reminds me too much of that particular Spanish rider who has no problem exploring where the limits of adhesion are in practice and then focuses on using the rear to drive himself around corners.

Now certainly those Michelin tires of 2005/2006 are old technology, but Michelin liked having a strong rear tire that allowed for a lot of grip while the front required more work to find the bite point and grip.

Just some food for thought.

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