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Michelin tires topic

This discussion is excellent. Good stuff gentz.

Or...the conspiracy theories are in fact conspiracy, at least partially true. Have you considered the constant tinkering of the rules is for effect? Personally, I see GP politics as a microcosm. Though I agree with your point that rules stability can help mitigate the 'perception' of conspiracy.

It's like two guys standing in the rain. One guy says, well looks like it's raining. The other guys, as he wipes the water from his eyes says, no its not, what has compelled you to formulate that conspiracy theory?





This
I do believe there are some conspiracies (last.minute weight additions, rookie rule, points rule revisions). But others remain unprovable (as yet) ergo; theory.
Problem is that the phrase is too heavily linked to tin-fpul hattery.

The last minute rule fiddles are at.worst verging on corruption, at best incompetence
 
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I do believe there are some conspiracies (last.minute weight additions, rookie rule, points rule revisions). But others remain unprovable (as yet) ergo; theory.
Problem is that the phrase is too heavily linked to tin-fpul hattery.

The last minute rule fiddles are at.worst verging on corruption, at best incompetence

As we have been saying in regard to other recent matters, incompetence/stuff ups are far more common in most fields of human endeavour than conspiracies, particularly successful conspiracies, which are more or less impossible in this modern information age because secrets just cannot be kept, now more than ever. To don my particular tinfoil hat, I guess there is a chance that a conspiracy cooked up between Carmelo and a certain rider in his motor home could conceivably be kept between the 2 of them though, and I have little compunction alleging this given the massive conspiracy theory concocted by that rider late in season 2015.

With the regulation/tyre changes which affected Stoner and Honda in 2012, it is conceivable that Dorna had multiple motives, some of them even well intentioned, and the same applies to the tyre changes leading ultimately to the control tyre after Stoner's 2007 Ducati championship, but that Stoner would possibly be impeded by the changes was at the very least a welcome corollary effect imo, and in a series supposedly beset by problems with excessive expenditure changing regulations at the last minute after a manufacturer has spent a year testing and developing a bike for a totally new formula under pre-existing regulations is at the very least incompetent.

I had no objection to them changing the structure of the officiating body which should always have basically been separate from Dorna and within the purview of the FIM imo, but it is hard not to detect the odour of decaying fish in some other recent changes which occurred after the aforementioned motor home meeting.
 
Yeah, you're probably right. They should just pick any tire and get on with it. Hey, how about this one?

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Indeed, but as it is a conspiracy theory and not necessarily fact we could put any number on the side.
Wouldn't make a blind bit of difference unless the guy riding it believed it did..
 
Indeed, but as it is a conspiracy theory and not necessarily fact we could put any number on the side.
Wouldn't make a blind bit of difference unless the guy riding it believed it did..

As I have just said, I think conspiracies, particularly successful conspiracies, are less common than people think, but Valentino and his fans have little cause for complaint about conspiracies being contemplated in regard to him just at the moment imo, given the massive conspiracy theory raised by Valentino last season, and the invitation post the Valencia 2015 race for Carmelo Ezpeleta to join him in his motor home, caught on camera, from all appearances to discuss how he had been screwed by a Spanish cabal in that race.
 
As I have just said, I think conspiracies, particularly successful conspiracies, are less common than people think, but Valentino and his fans have little cause for complaint about conspiracies being contemplated in regard to him just at the moment imo, given the massive conspiracy theory raised by Valentino last season, and the invitation post the Valencia 2015 race for Carmelo Ezpeleta to join him in his motor home, caught on camera, from all appearances to discuss how he had been screwed by a Spanish cabal in that race.


I agree. You reap what you sow.

What I don't buy into is the premise that any of these riders would choose a tyre just because it doesn't suit the competition. They got to where they are by getting the very best out of their own machine setup and are generally self obsessed. Success in their selected field is the result. When they move beyond this approach then Sepang or similar is the outcome.
I can't accept and don't believe that the decision makers will take one mans view into account when the circus takes in so many other variables.
 
I agree. You reap what you sow.

What I don't buy into is the premise that any of these riders would choose a tyre just because it doesn't suit the competition. They got to where they are by getting the very best out of their own machine setup and are generally self obsessed. Success in their selected field is the result. When they move beyond this approach then Sepang or similar is the outcome.

I can't find it, but someone has posted a link somewhere to an article in early 2012 in which Rossi admits that he would prefer the softer construction tyre, basically because Stoner wanted the harder tyre.
 
I'm guessing the bottom line for most racers would be to finish the championship in front rather than break the most lap records.
 
I agree. You reap what you sow.

What I don't buy into is the premise that any of these riders would choose a tyre just because it doesn't suit the competition. They got to where they are by getting the very best out of their own machine setup and are generally self obsessed. Success in their selected field is the result. When they move beyond this approach then Sepang or similar is the outcome.
I can't accept and don't believe that the decision makers will take one mans view into account when the circus takes in so many other variables.

If there was any tyre conspiracy in 2012 the one I was alleging was a Dorna conspiracy in having a vote allowing only one of the tyres to be available going forward in the first place, for which there seemed no good reason as Nakamoto said; only Stoner could really ride the hard tyre, and it didn't really matter what tyre Rossi had given the 2012 Ducati was such a pig, but Stoner fans such as me could perhaps see some karma in the subsequent multiple failures of the "new" tyre including for Rossi when he got back on a Yamaha. The original tyre was the one available over the development period of the 2012 bike by HRC/Stoner.

And what did happen at Sepang 2015 btw?, which Rossi's conspiracy theory regarding PI preceded.
 
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As I have just said, I think conspiracies, particularly successful conspiracies, are less common than people think...

Here is a conspiracy theory:

DORNA revamped the penalty point system (effectively removed it) for 2016 because it involved a dispute with Rossi last year.

["And all because the two biggest names in motorcycle racing got into a spat at Sepang, and behaved like petulant brats before, during and afterward." Kropo] Let us shelve the fact Kropo and others have irresponsibly at best, with do respect, repeated this absolute baseless assessment that Marc's behavior was "petulant", based on nothing more than their hunch (or perhaps human susceptibility of Rossi poisoning many perceptions). Before the race, Marc did not behave petulant toward Rossi, during the race Marc conducted all overtaking cleanly, and after the race he defended himself from the ACTUAL violent attack Rossi perpetrated on him. When did Marc behave petulant? But for Rossi, his petulant behavior, officially sanctioned, is undisputed FACT.)



Here is another conspiracy theory:

Race Direction was revamped for 2016 because it was involved in a dispute with Rossi last year.


["Underlying this is the idea that basing rules and regulations for general application on very specific circumstances and exceptional protagonists is a bad idea." Kropo]


Here is another conspiracy theory:

According to Jorge Lorenzo and Casey Stoner, Rossi was not black flagged at Sepang because his name is too big in the sport. That is to say, contestants are not held accountable evenly, where Rossi gets preferential treatment with skewed championship implications.
 
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Makes me laugh when people say Rossi is so good at developing bikes and his rivals aren't and the in the same breath say the 2011 2012 duc was a pig to ride. Who was responsible for such a pig.
 
The repeated tinkering with the regs and specs provide fertile ground for the conspiracy theories. Hence why they should be far more stable.

True. But powers that be seem immune to public opinion.
 
Here is another conspiracy theory:

According to Jorge Lorenzo and Casey Stoner, Rossi was not black flagged at Sepang because his name is too big in the sport. That is to say, contestants are not held accountable evenly, where Rossi gets preferential treatment with skewed championship implications.

What enraged me after Sepang was the impression that race direction were considering the championship standings and 'the show' (dubbed #thebigfinale) which factored somewhat into their enforecement of the rules and eventual punsihment.

The difference between right and wrong should be punished equally, no matter who the rider, thair revenue to the sport or their current standings in the championship.

Makes me laugh when people say Rossi is so good at developing bikes and his rivals aren't and the in the same breath say the 2011 2012 duc was a pig to ride. Who was responsible for such a pig.

The illuminati..
 
I love the myth about developing bikes, the only part a rider plays in regards to development is feedback about how the bike handles etc. The actual getting around the problems at hand is the responsibility of designers and engineers. Rossi was just lucky that he joined Yamaha at the exact moment they pulled their finger out of their arse and built a good bike however in the eyes of the media and his fanatic followers it was down to him.
 
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I love the myth about developing bikes, the only part a rider plays in regards to development is feedback about how the bike handles etc. The actual getting around the problems at hand is the responsibility of designers and engineers. Rossi was just lucky that he joined Yamaha at the exact moment they pulled their finger out of their arse and built a good bike however in the eyes of the media and his fanatic followers it was down to him.


Exactly and this is why he was so upset when Yamaha signed Jorge as his team mate. It would show that he's not the only guy to go fast on a Yamaha.
Note when Rossi squealed for Bridgestones or he'd quit, he never mentioned his TEAM getting them, just himself, as it would give him yet another unfair advantage to continue his charade as the God of MotoGP.
As for developing a bike, Heuwen, Hodgson and Toseland, presentors on bt sports have been bleating all season that Lorenzo cannot setup or develop a bike and that Rossi does all the development as he's so good. They've been claiming Lorenzo has no feel for the bike blah blah blah.
Amazing how a guy who has all these problems wins three world titles whilst a god wins none...
 
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In only period Rossi and Lorenzo weren't team mates. Lorenzo finished 2nd then won a title, and also kept the Yamaha to be developed as a title contender in 11, 12 and 13.

Rossi did nothing on the Desmo in 11 and 12, and arguably offered very little to the development of the Yamaha in 13 (as he was running a distant 4th most of the time)
 
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The reason Michelin are still working on tires is because it is much harder than they expected. The first year with Michelins is going to get messy, as they get it dead right at some tracks, and horribly wrong at others - just wait till they get to Argentina, where they haven't tested.

A rule freeze 6 months out? If they did that for tires, nobody would survive the first half of this season as everyone crashed out each race.
 
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http://www.thesurvivalnut.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/rob-tinfoil-hat-compressed.jpg[/IMG

A rule freeze 6 months out? If they did that for tires, nobody would survive the first half of this season as everyone crashed out each race.[/QUOTE]

This year or any year
 
Exactly and this is why he was so upset when Yamaha signed Jorge as his team mate. It would show that he's not the only guy to go fast on a Yamaha.
Note when Rossi squealed for Bridgestones or he'd quit, he never mentioned his TEAM getting them, just himself, as it would give him yet another unfair advantage to continue his charade as the God of MotoGP.
As for developing a bike, Heuwen, Hodgson and Toseland, presentors on bt sports have been bleating all season that Lorenzo cannot setup or develop a bike and that Rossi does all the development as he's so good. They've been claiming Lorenzo has no feel for the bike blah blah blah.
Amazing how a guy who has all these problems wins three world titles whilst a god wins none...

Rossi is such a stand up guy and company man that he developed the bike to suit Lorenzo. He knows he doesn't have the speed to win another title so he he does the next best thing,make sure his teammate succeeds. Just another example of what makes Rossi the GOAT. Damn that guy is awesome.
 
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rob-tinfoil-hat-compressed.jpg


The reason Michelin are still working on tires is because it is much harder than they expected. The first year with Michelins is going to get messy, as they get it dead right at some tracks, and horribly wrong at others - just wait till they get to Argentina, where they haven't tested.

A rule freeze 6 months out? If they did that for tires, nobody would survive the first half of this season as everyone crashed out each race.

Completely agree re: Michelin woes,.
Rule freeze this year, ok no problems to leave it as they develop the tyres...but going into 2017. Why not?
 

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