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Michelin tires topic

Could get complicated . Could we see vr picking a tire based on the fact that either Lorenzo or Marc didn't like it? Sandbagging during the test?

Could Lorenzo find out which tire vr might like better and do a better time on that than on the one he really likes?

I know, they have to push to find out.

Adds another dimension to the mental game.
What would you do? Pick the 'same' tire the other guy in your garage 'likes' knowing he's wiped your ... the last 4 years? Or would you pick the tire he struggled on and take your chances? To me it's a no brainer.


Let me rephrase, if I know Lorenzo has been over half a second to a whole second faster than me on the tire he likes, why would I pick that tire?
 
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If Lorenzo sandbags on the tire he likes, maybe I pick that one.
(Especially if I know I can't beat him straight up.)
 
What would you do? Pick the 'same' tire the other guy in your garage 'likes' knowing he's wiped your ... the last 4 years? Or would you pick the tire he struggled on and take your chances? To me it's a no brainer.


Let me rephrase, if I know Lorenzo has been over half a second to a whole second faster than me on the tire he likes, why would I pick that tire?

Didn't VR already do this during his Ducati years? That is, vote on the soft carcass/construction BS that Stoner didn't like. Later saying that Stoner was correct in his assessment, but he (VR) didn't care because he was in thr .... on the Ducati anyway?
 
Isn't VRs problem that if they choose the tyre Lorenzo doesn't like Marquez is faster than him and if he chooses the tyre that doesn't suit Maq then Lorenzo is faster than him?
 
Isn't VRs problem that if they choose the tyre Lorenzo doesn't like Marquez is faster than him and if he chooses the tyre that doesn't suit Maq then Lorenzo is faster than him?

The current odds for VR is a 1:2. Reduced from last year's 1:3. I'm sure VR sees his greatest barrier to another GP title is Lorenzo this year. You think he hasn't noticed the RCV is currently a disaster? Marquez will struggle and Pedrosa has gone absolutely MIA. The principal guy he must thwart is Lorenzo! It's a simple mathematical proposition.

Why do you think he's pressuring Yamaha to sign him to a two year deal before Lorenzo? Rossi is using his considerable influence to decide the title BEFORE the season starts! And everything points to the wheels (or I should say tires) turning in his direction. It's not enough that the organizers have made profound changes to the rules (annihilation of the penalty system) and restructure of the organization itself (redesigned Race Direction) how much more evident does the doctored playing field need to be contrived and hastily make shifted for it to be any more obvious what is happening?

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It's sad that Rossi is so desperate for a 10th title, no matter what it does to 'his legacy', that he is willing to just stay in MotoGP until his rivals fall (or are pushed) away with bike or tyre issues.
 
This insight now begs the question, was last seasons "sorry Jorge, you can't have the tyres with the edge grip you prefer due to safety concerns at certain tracks". Was this really for safety or was it an attempt to engineer results to prevent him from running away with the championship as he was threatening to do, thus affecting the attendance of the yellow hordes?
Another conspiracy theory I know, but recently the sport has been riddled with them.
 
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This insight now begs the question, was last seasons "sorry Jorge, you can't have the tyres with the edge grip you prefer due to safety concerns at certain tracks". Was this really for safety or was it an attempt to engineer results to prevent him from running away with the championship as he was threatening to do, thus affecting the attendance of the yellow hordes?
Another conspiracy theory I know, but recently the sport has been riddled with them.

The repeated tinkering with the regs and specs provide fertile ground for the conspiracy theories. Hence why they should be far more stable.
 
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The trouble is, that the last 3 races of 2015 showed Rossi's true character. He portrays himself in the media as a fun loving rogue, but anyone who delves past that will find evidence of what a manipulative tyrant he can be, that finally came to the surface publicly in 2015.

Having now witnessed that first hand, and how pathetically Dorna/Race Direction sanctioned him (and arguably lack of, considering his mouthing off even up to last month), I wouldn't be at all surprised Yamfan.
 
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The repeated tinkering with the regs and specs provide fertile ground for the conspiracy theories. Hence why they should be far more stable.

Root Cause Analysis though:

Why are they NOT more stable? Sadly the answer appears to be concessions to try and even out the field or give advantages to certain rider(s). For the life of me, as objectivr as I try to be, I have not found any other reason for the last 2012 pre-season tyres change other than to either hamper Casey Stoner or/and aid the Ducati, which was ridden by Rossi.
 
Root Cause Analysis though:

Why are they NOT more stable? Sadly the answer appears to be concessions to try and even out the field or give advantages to certain rider(s). For the life of me, as objectivr as I try to be, I have not found any other reason for the last 2012 pre-season tyres change other than to either hamper Casey Stoner or/and aid the Ducati, which was ridden by Rossi.

It was the late pre-season minimum weight change which was specifically said to be to aid the Ducati, despite that bike already being pretty clearly a hopeless case imo, and was dressed up as Honda having cooked a previous vote against a weight change by the manufacturers as being unanimous when it wasn't. Even if there was a previous vote which was falsified (Kropotkin seemed to think this was so) rather than recovered memory by Ducati perhaps under hypnosis, it was held a year after the promulgation of the original regulations under which Honda developed their bike, and was hence an unreasonably late change regardless imo. I have absolutely no doubt the late weight change was precipitated by the dominant early testing form of the unpopular reigning world champion on the original iteration of the 2012 Honda.

The tyre change was actually during the early season in 2012, when Stoner was still looking competitive despite complaining of chatter after the changes to the Honda necessitated by the late increase in minimum weight. The change involved a Dorna-engineered vote by the riders in regard to a choice between tyres, the hard carcass tyre on which Stoner had won most of his races hitherto, and a new tyre; perhaps oddly, the riders other than Pedrosa when given the choice between the tyre Stoner preferred and a different tyre chose the different tyre. Stoner as I recall did not complain about the vote per se, but assessed the new tyre as being likely to prove insufficiently durable under racing conditions, and was proved correct subsequently as even the Tavullia Titan later admitted. HRC were happy for the new tyre to come into use, but saw no reason why the old tyre shouldn't also continue to be available, although I suspect they in reality had little doubt about why that choice was not on offer.
 
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Root Cause Analysis though:

Why are they NOT more stable? Sadly the answer appears to be concessions to try and even out the field or give advantages to certain rider(s). For the life of me, as objectivr as I try to be, I have not found any other reason for the last 2012 pre-season tyres change other than to either hamper Casey Stoner or/and aid the Ducati, which was ridden by Rossi.

Indeedy. It's bollocks.
At minimum there should be a rule freeze (barring bizarre circumstances) 6 months out from Rd 1.
 
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It was the late pre-season minimum weight change which was specifically said to be to aid the Ducati, despite that bike already being pretty clearly a hopeless case imo, and was dressed up as Honda having cooked a previous vote against a weight change by the manufacturers as being unanimous when it wasn't. Even if there was a previous vote which was falsified (Kropotkin seemed to think this was so), it was held a year after the original regulations under which Honda developed their bike, and was hence an unreasonably late change regardless imo. I have absolutely no doubt the late weight change was precipitated by the dominant early testing form of the unpopular reigning world champion on the original iteration of the 2012 Honda.

The tyre change was actually during the early season in 2012, when Stoner was still looking competitive despite complaining of chatter after the changes to the Honda necessitated by the late increase in minimum weight. The change involved a vote engineered by Dorna by the riders regarding a choice between tyres, the hard carcass tyre on which Stoner had won most of his races hitherto, and a new tyre; perhaps oddly, the riders other than Pedrosa when given the choice between the tyre Stoner preferred and a different tyre chose the different tyre. Stoner as I recall did not complain about the vote per se, but assessed the new tyre as being likely to prove insufficiently durable under racing conditions, and was proved correct subsequently as even the Tavullia Titan later admitted. HRC were happy for the new tyre to come into use, but saw no reason why the old tyre shouldn't also continue to be available, although I suspect they in reality had little doubt about why that choice was not on offer.

Good Post, mm.
 
The repeated tinkering with the regs and specs provide fertile ground for the conspiracy theories. Hence why they should be far more stable.

This discussion is excellent. Good stuff gentz.

Or...the conspiracy theories are in fact conspiracy, at least partially true. Have you considered the constant tinkering of the rules is for effect? Personally, I see GP politics as a microcosm. Though I agree with your point that rules stability can help mitigate the 'perception' of conspiracy.

It's like two guys standing in the rain. One guy says, well looks like it's raining. The other guys, as he wipes the water from his eyes says, no its not, what has compelled you to formulate that conspiracy theory?



Root Cause Analysis though:

Why are they NOT more stable?

This
 
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It was the late pre-season minimum weight change which was specifically said to be to aid the Ducati, despite that bike already being pretty clearly a hopeless case imo, and was dressed up as Honda having cooked a previous vote against a weight change by the manufacturers as being unanimous when it wasn't. Even if there was a previous vote which was falsified (Kropotkin seemed to think this was so) rather than recovered memory by Ducati perhaps under hypnosis, it was held a year after the promulgation of the original regulations under which Honda developed their bike, and was hence an unreasonably late change regardless imo. I have absolutely no doubt the late weight change was precipitated by the dominant early testing form of the unpopular reigning world champion on the original iteration of the 2012 Honda.

The tyre change was actually during the early season in 2012, when Stoner was still looking competitive despite complaining of chatter after the changes to the Honda necessitated by the late increase in minimum weight. The change involved a Dorna-engineered vote by the riders in regard to a choice between tyres, the hard carcass tyre on which Stoner had won most of his races hitherto, and a new tyre; perhaps oddly, the riders other than Pedrosa when given the choice between the tyre Stoner preferred and a different tyre chose the different tyre. Stoner as I recall did not complain about the vote per se, but assessed the new tyre as being likely to prove insufficiently durable under racing conditions, and was proved correct subsequently as even the Tavullia Titan later admitted. HRC were happy for the new tyre to come into use, but saw no reason why the old tyre shouldn't also continue to be available, although I suspect they in reality had little doubt about why that choice was not on offer.

This is a gem of a post. Educational, insightful, ominous.
 
The trouble is, that the last 3 races of 2015 showed Rossi's true character. He portrays himself in the media as a fun loving rogue, but anyone who delves past that will find evidence of what a manipulative tyrant he can be, that finally came to the surface publicly in 2015.

Having now witnessed that first hand, and how pathetically Dorna/Race Direction sanctioned him (and arguably lack of, considering his mouthing off even up to last month), I wouldn't be at all surprised Yamfan.
Last 3 races, how about the last 10 years. Rossi was so much better than his competition in his first 5 years everyone just accepted the .... we were being fed. Once some competition showed up in the form of Pedrosa,Stoner, Lorenzo then Marquez, the machinations of Dorna and manipulation by Rossi have been on display for everyone to see.
 
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Or maybe we all read far too much into this kind of thing. They will select a tyre and the riders will use it.
 

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