<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex @ Mar 16 2007, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>won the title for Damon Hill in 1997.
You might wanna double check that detail
You might wanna double check that detail
Michael Schumacher
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with some of what you say and yes maybe Schumacher was better than Prost.
The problem with watching Michael race was that Barrichello was never allowed to overtake this made many races very boring aswell.
But Senna was another level altogether, just wish he could have been around longer and shown Schumi who the real boss was.
I hate Schumacher too but i;m going to just say it, he's better than Senna, Prost and anybody else you wish to mention. Put all drivers at their peak in a car they're good in and Schumacher will come out on top most times.
The problem with watching Michael race was that Barrichello was never allowed to overtake this made many races very boring aswell.
But Senna was another level altogether, just wish he could have been around longer and shown Schumi who the real boss was.
I hate Schumacher too but i;m going to just say it, he's better than Senna, Prost and anybody else you wish to mention. Put all drivers at their peak in a car they're good in and Schumacher will come out on top most times.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The problem with watching Michael race was that Barrichello was never allowed to overtake this made many races very boring aswell.
Don't get me started on team orders, its just not racing.
Don't get me started on team orders, its just not racing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex @ Mar 16 2007, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hate Schumacher too but i;m going to just say it, he's better than Senna, Prost and anybody else you wish to mention. Put all drivers at their peak in a car they're good in and Schumacher will come out on top most times.
So do I as you may have guessed and although i respect that he was a great driver i will not accept that a cheat can be the best ever.
So do I as you may have guessed and although i respect that he was a great driver i will not accept that a cheat can be the best ever.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So do I as you may have guessed and although i respect that he was a great driver i will not accept that a cheat can be the best ever.
But still, take away his world title or two and race wins for cheating but he'll still probably be the best ever.
But still, take away his world title or two and race wins for cheating but he'll still probably be the best ever.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with some of what you say and yes maybe Schumacher was better than Prost.
The problem with watching Michael race was that Barrichello was never allowed to overtake this made many races very boring aswell.
But Senna was another level altogether, just wish he could have been around longer and shown Schumi who the real boss was.
I think MS really was better than Prost. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one who thinks that.
I can understand you didn't like it that RB had to play 2nd fiddle. But he never really was a real danger to MS in the first place. That's why Ferrari wanted him in the first place I think. Rubens is just not a real winner, otherwise he would have never agreed to play 2nd fiddle to MS. RB knew MS was the better one. That was clear already. Don't get me wrong, I also don't approve these driver favouring tactics, but I can understand why they did it.
It would have been great for sure if AS would have been around, but to be honest I'm not sure if he would really beat the hell out of MS. I think both of them would win. In the end their battle would have been decided due to car performances. If AS stayed at Williams for 3 or 4 more years if he was alive, then he would have probably won 96 and 97 as well. JV and Hill wouldnt have been competition to him I think. He might have won in 94, but MS already had a 20 points gap after the 1st two races. it would have been close, but then again, if Hill had a chance, then AS would have stood a chance for sure!!
The problem with watching Michael race was that Barrichello was never allowed to overtake this made many races very boring aswell.
But Senna was another level altogether, just wish he could have been around longer and shown Schumi who the real boss was.
I think MS really was better than Prost. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one who thinks that.
I can understand you didn't like it that RB had to play 2nd fiddle. But he never really was a real danger to MS in the first place. That's why Ferrari wanted him in the first place I think. Rubens is just not a real winner, otherwise he would have never agreed to play 2nd fiddle to MS. RB knew MS was the better one. That was clear already. Don't get me wrong, I also don't approve these driver favouring tactics, but I can understand why they did it.
It would have been great for sure if AS would have been around, but to be honest I'm not sure if he would really beat the hell out of MS. I think both of them would win. In the end their battle would have been decided due to car performances. If AS stayed at Williams for 3 or 4 more years if he was alive, then he would have probably won 96 and 97 as well. JV and Hill wouldnt have been competition to him I think. He might have won in 94, but MS already had a 20 points gap after the 1st two races. it would have been close, but then again, if Hill had a chance, then AS would have stood a chance for sure!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex @ Mar 16 2007, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But still, take away his world title or two and race wins for cheating but he'll still probably be the best ever.
I doubt anyone will ever replicate his 7 world titles for a long time yet and however many wins so according to the stats he may always be the best ever but other drivers have been or still are better than he ever was.
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
I doubt anyone will ever replicate his 7 world titles for a long time yet and however many wins so according to the stats he may always be the best ever but other drivers have been or still are better than he ever was.
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I doubt anyone will ever replicate his 7 world titles for a long time yet and however many wins so according to the stats he may always be the best ever but other drivers have been or still are better than he ever was.
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
Alonso only had a 'worser' car towards the end of the season with only a few race remaining, after the Renault's mass dampers had to be removed leaving them with a downside. Arguably the REnault was the car to beat, and had Schumacher been in the same car he probably would of beaten Alonso too!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I doubt anyone will ever replicate his 7 world titles for a long time yet and however many wins so according to the stats he may always be the best ever but other drivers have been or still are better than he ever was.
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
Alonso only had a 'worser' car towards the end of the season with only a few race remaining, after the Renault's mass dampers had to be removed leaving them with a downside. Arguably the REnault was the car to beat, and had Schumacher been in the same car he probably would of beaten Alonso too!
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
Alonso only had a 'worser' car towards the end of the season with only a few race remaining, after the Renault's mass dampers had to be removed leaving them with a downside. Arguably the REnault was the car to beat, and had Schumacher been in the same car he probably would of beaten Alonso too!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I doubt anyone will ever replicate his 7 world titles for a long time yet and however many wins so according to the stats he may always be the best ever but other drivers have been or still are better than he ever was.
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
Alonso only had a 'worser' car towards the end of the season with only a few race remaining, after the Renault's mass dampers had to be removed leaving them with a downside. Arguably the REnault was the car to beat, and had Schumacher been in the same car he probably would of beaten Alonso too!
The big difference between Alonso and Schumacher.
Where were Fisichella and Massa in identical Renault and Ferrari?
Fisi struggling for points
Massa pushing Michael and beating him at times!
Points:
Alonso - 134 (2dnf car broke in hungary and monza) 7 wins
Schumacher - 121 (2dnfs australia accident and japan engine) 7 wins
Massa - 80 (2 wins 5dnfs - without 5 non finishes where would he have come?)
Fisi - 72 (1 win - 2dnfs)
Where were Fisichella and Massa in identical Renault and Ferrari?
Fisi struggling for points
Massa pushing Michael and beating him at times!
Points:
Alonso - 134 (2dnf car broke in hungary and monza) 7 wins
Schumacher - 121 (2dnfs australia accident and japan engine) 7 wins
Massa - 80 (2 wins 5dnfs - without 5 non finishes where would he have come?)
Fisi - 72 (1 win - 2dnfs)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I doubt anyone will ever replicate his 7 world titles for a long time yet and however many wins so according to the stats he may always be the best ever but other drivers have been or still are better than he ever was.
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
I'm sure Senna would have won more titles, but you know, as sad as it is, these things don't count. Unfortunaltey he wasn't around anymore. But whether he would have won more titles or not, it wouldn't have made that much of a difference, cause i think MS would have won 94 and 95 anyway. Like i said before, MS already had a 20 point gap after 2 races and in 95 Benetton had the better car. So, I think, IF AS was still around, he would have won in 96 and 97, but that's assuming he would have stayed at Williams, cause it was Senna's dream to drive for Ferrari. So, in the end I think MS would have won 7 titles either way, maybe 6, but who cares whether it's 6, 7 or 8. The man is a genius anyway.
About Alonso in 06: His car wasnt ''much worse''. People seem to think ferrari was the absolute best in 2006, but that's just because they were the best in the last half of the season. People remember that, cause it was the 2nd half, but we have to realise that renault had a strong start of the season and if I remember correctly FA had a huge gap halfway, and nobody thought he would be in danger. Actually now I think about it, it's crap to say Renault had a much worse car, CAUSE in the end they did WIN the WCC and also the WDC. So..really dont think Ferrari was better..
About Raikkonen..ah..well dunno what to say, cause it actually had NOTHING to with MS being great or not. I wish Kimi was as complete as MS was, but he isn't. That's ok though..
And the Fangio thing..that's also is irrelevant imo. Cause you're probably assuming MS wouldnt have raced in those days then, otherwise why say it??? I think MS would have raced, cause like I said before, the man is a true winner and he has the passion to race, so I think he would have.
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
I'm sure Senna would have won more titles, but you know, as sad as it is, these things don't count. Unfortunaltey he wasn't around anymore. But whether he would have won more titles or not, it wouldn't have made that much of a difference, cause i think MS would have won 94 and 95 anyway. Like i said before, MS already had a 20 point gap after 2 races and in 95 Benetton had the better car. So, I think, IF AS was still around, he would have won in 96 and 97, but that's assuming he would have stayed at Williams, cause it was Senna's dream to drive for Ferrari. So, in the end I think MS would have won 7 titles either way, maybe 6, but who cares whether it's 6, 7 or 8. The man is a genius anyway.
About Alonso in 06: His car wasnt ''much worse''. People seem to think ferrari was the absolute best in 2006, but that's just because they were the best in the last half of the season. People remember that, cause it was the 2nd half, but we have to realise that renault had a strong start of the season and if I remember correctly FA had a huge gap halfway, and nobody thought he would be in danger. Actually now I think about it, it's crap to say Renault had a much worse car, CAUSE in the end they did WIN the WCC and also the WDC. So..really dont think Ferrari was better..
About Raikkonen..ah..well dunno what to say, cause it actually had NOTHING to with MS being great or not. I wish Kimi was as complete as MS was, but he isn't. That's ok though..
And the Fangio thing..that's also is irrelevant imo. Cause you're probably assuming MS wouldnt have raced in those days then, otherwise why say it??? I think MS would have raced, cause like I said before, the man is a true winner and he has the passion to race, so I think he would have.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I doubt anyone will ever replicate his 7 world titles for a long time yet and however many wins so according to the stats he may always be the best ever but other drivers have been or still are better than he ever was.
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
Its invalid to use Senna as an argument based on evidence you make up saying if he survived this would have happened, because you just can't tell.
Alonso did beat Shuey the last two years but in 06 the Renault was only worse for the second half of the season, and not by that much. Plus, we were seeing the winddown of his career, by no means his peak.
It is a waste of time saying Raikonen is better "IF" anything. If i had talent, fitness, experience and opertunity then i am better than Shumacher (yeah right).
And it is seriously tricky comparing across eras. Sure Fangio took loads of risks, but that doesn't make him better. Shuey is an athlete way beyond what Fangio was, and although he was lees likely to get hurt, he was dealing with fractions of seconds making the difference between crashing and winning on a regular basis. But overall the most reliable thing is to see how they compared to their competition, and the numbers will tell you michael kicked .... But so did Fangio, so its a question with no correct answer, but i believe the modern day drivers are superior
For example:
Senna - would have won a couple more titles at least.
Alonso - beat Schumi in 06 with a much worse car.
Raikkonnen - if he is commited to the job at hand
Fangio - do you think Schumi would have raced in those cars with no seat belts or protection?
And in response to the Barrichello post, Rubens was a good driver before he joined Ferrari - maybe not as good as Michael but not bad and there were definitely occasions where he could have beaten MS - Austria in 03ish springs to mind!
Its invalid to use Senna as an argument based on evidence you make up saying if he survived this would have happened, because you just can't tell.
Alonso did beat Shuey the last two years but in 06 the Renault was only worse for the second half of the season, and not by that much. Plus, we were seeing the winddown of his career, by no means his peak.
It is a waste of time saying Raikonen is better "IF" anything. If i had talent, fitness, experience and opertunity then i am better than Shumacher (yeah right).
And it is seriously tricky comparing across eras. Sure Fangio took loads of risks, but that doesn't make him better. Shuey is an athlete way beyond what Fangio was, and although he was lees likely to get hurt, he was dealing with fractions of seconds making the difference between crashing and winning on a regular basis. But overall the most reliable thing is to see how they compared to their competition, and the numbers will tell you michael kicked .... But so did Fangio, so its a question with no correct answer, but i believe the modern day drivers are superior
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The big difference between Alonso and Schumacher.
Where were Fisichella and Massa in identical Renault and Ferrari?
Fisi struggling for points
Massa pushing Michael and beating him at times!
Points:
Alonso - 134 (2dnf car broke in hungary and monza) 7 wins
Schumacher - 121 (2dnfs australia accident and japan engine) 7 wins
Massa - 80 (2 wins 5dnfs - without 5 non finishes where would he have come?)
Fisi - 72 (1 win - 2dnfs)
Simple.
We're talking about Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso here, not Felipe Massa and Giancarlo Fisichella too.
Where were Fisichella and Massa in identical Renault and Ferrari?
Fisi struggling for points
Massa pushing Michael and beating him at times!
Points:
Alonso - 134 (2dnf car broke in hungary and monza) 7 wins
Schumacher - 121 (2dnfs australia accident and japan engine) 7 wins
Massa - 80 (2 wins 5dnfs - without 5 non finishes where would he have come?)
Fisi - 72 (1 win - 2dnfs)
Simple.
We're talking about Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso here, not Felipe Massa and Giancarlo Fisichella too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Is he the best Formula 1 driver to ever live and is an icon for years to come or his he a cheat?
enters thread
A cheat.
exits thread
enters thread
A cheat.
exits thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IsraeliRacer @ Mar 16 2007, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>enters thread
A cheat.
exits thread
You wish!
You're not gonna pull out of this thread as easy as that after such a comment, people will bite your head off now.
A cheat.
exits thread
You wish!
You're not gonna pull out of this thread as easy as that after such a comment, people will bite your head off now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Mar 16 2007, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sure Senna would have won more titles, but you know, as sad as it is, these things don't count. Unfortunaltey he wasn't around anymore. But whether he would have won more titles or not, it wouldn't have made that much of a difference, cause i think MS would have won 94 and 95 anyway. Like i said before, MS already had a 20 point gap after 2 races and in 95 Benetton had the better car. So, I think, IF AS was still around, he would have won in 96 and 97, but that's assuming he would have stayed at Williams, cause it was Senna's dream to drive for Ferrari. So, in the end I think MS would have won 7 titles either way, maybe 6, but who cares whether it's 6, 7 or 8. The man is a genius anyway.
About Alonso in 06: His car wasnt ''much worse''. People seem to think ferrari was the absolute best in 2006, but that's just because they were the best in the last half of the season. People remember that, cause it was the 2nd half, but we have to realise that renault had a strong start of the season and if I remember correctly FA had a huge gap halfway, and nobody thought he would be in danger. Actually now I think about it, it's crap to say Renault had a much worse car, CAUSE in the end they did WIN the WCC and also the WDC. So..really dont think Ferrari was better..
About Raikkonen..ah..well dunno what to say, cause it actually had NOTHING to with MS being great or not. I wish Kimi was as complete as MS was, but he isn't. That's ok though..
And the Fangio thing..that's also is irrelevant imo. Cause you're probably assuming MS wouldnt have raced in those days then, otherwise why say it??? I think MS would have raced, cause like I said before, the man is a true winner and he has the passion to race, so I think he would have.
You can't call the Raikkonen and Fangio thing irrelevant coz to be the best F1 driver ever you have to be better than all these guys.
Kimi is yet to show whether he really is as good as many people say.
The ferrari was never a bad car at the start of the year and the renault cant have been that great coz Fisichella was not scoring podium finsishes every race like Alonso was so therefore it must be down to him not the car so much.
About Alonso in 06: His car wasnt ''much worse''. People seem to think ferrari was the absolute best in 2006, but that's just because they were the best in the last half of the season. People remember that, cause it was the 2nd half, but we have to realise that renault had a strong start of the season and if I remember correctly FA had a huge gap halfway, and nobody thought he would be in danger. Actually now I think about it, it's crap to say Renault had a much worse car, CAUSE in the end they did WIN the WCC and also the WDC. So..really dont think Ferrari was better..
About Raikkonen..ah..well dunno what to say, cause it actually had NOTHING to with MS being great or not. I wish Kimi was as complete as MS was, but he isn't. That's ok though..
And the Fangio thing..that's also is irrelevant imo. Cause you're probably assuming MS wouldnt have raced in those days then, otherwise why say it??? I think MS would have raced, cause like I said before, the man is a true winner and he has the passion to race, so I think he would have.
You can't call the Raikkonen and Fangio thing irrelevant coz to be the best F1 driver ever you have to be better than all these guys.
Kimi is yet to show whether he really is as good as many people say.
The ferrari was never a bad car at the start of the year and the renault cant have been that great coz Fisichella was not scoring podium finsishes every race like Alonso was so therefore it must be down to him not the car so much.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can't call the Raikkonen and Fangio thing irrelevant coz to be the best F1 driver ever you have to be better than all these guys.
Kimi is yet to show whether he really is as good as many people say.
The ferrari was never a bad car at the start of the year and the renault cant have been that great coz Fisichella was not scoring podium finsishes every race like Alonso was so therefore it must be down to him not the car so much.
Still, how good do you have to be until you're classed as 'the best'? What if their car is slower and not as good? Calling someone the best in the world is not really an easy thing to do anymore to be honest.
Kimi is yet to show whether he really is as good as many people say.
The ferrari was never a bad car at the start of the year and the renault cant have been that great coz Fisichella was not scoring podium finsishes every race like Alonso was so therefore it must be down to him not the car so much.
Still, how good do you have to be until you're classed as 'the best'? What if their car is slower and not as good? Calling someone the best in the world is not really an easy thing to do anymore to be honest.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 16 2007, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I just wanna say that this topic is awesome, cheers Alex.
agreed even if people do not share my opinion on Michael!
Continuing on...
What i was trying to say by including Fisi and Massa is that the stats show that as Massa beat Fisi in the WDC the ferrari was the better car over the course of the year, yet Alonso won the title in a Renault.
agreed even if people do not share my opinion on Michael!
Continuing on...
What i was trying to say by including Fisi and Massa is that the stats show that as Massa beat Fisi in the WDC the ferrari was the better car over the course of the year, yet Alonso won the title in a Renault.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can't call the Raikkonen and Fangio thing irrelevant coz to be the best F1 driver ever you have to be better than all these guys.
Kimi is yet to show whether he really is as good as many people say.
The ferrari was never a bad car at the start of the year and the renault cant have been that great coz Fisichella was not scoring podium finsishes every race like Alonso was so therefore it must be down to him not the car so much.
Of course it's irrelevant, sorry, but come on now. Raikkonen isn't a complete driver like MS. And ''IF'' dont count. Raikkonen is just lazy, I wish he wasn't but he is, he will never be like MS. I don't think Kimi belongs in MS' league, and I'm a huge kimi fan...but I'm not blind.
The Fangio thing is also irrelevant, cause we're again assuming things..''what would MS have done back then??'' We don't know, we will never know..so..not irrelevant.
I never said Ferrari had a BAD car at the start of last year's season, I said renault had a better start, and that's a FACT. I think Fisi was just performing really bad, cause Renault did have a strong package! of course FA did beter than Fisi, but that's cause Fisi's not a winner and FA obviously is.
Kimi is yet to show whether he really is as good as many people say.
The ferrari was never a bad car at the start of the year and the renault cant have been that great coz Fisichella was not scoring podium finsishes every race like Alonso was so therefore it must be down to him not the car so much.
Of course it's irrelevant, sorry, but come on now. Raikkonen isn't a complete driver like MS. And ''IF'' dont count. Raikkonen is just lazy, I wish he wasn't but he is, he will never be like MS. I don't think Kimi belongs in MS' league, and I'm a huge kimi fan...but I'm not blind.
The Fangio thing is also irrelevant, cause we're again assuming things..''what would MS have done back then??'' We don't know, we will never know..so..not irrelevant.
I never said Ferrari had a BAD car at the start of last year's season, I said renault had a better start, and that's a FACT. I think Fisi was just performing really bad, cause Renault did have a strong package! of course FA did beter than Fisi, but that's cause Fisi's not a winner and FA obviously is.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valentino Is God @ Mar 16 2007, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What i was trying to say by including Fisi and Massa is that the stats show that as Massa beat Fisi in the WDC the ferrari was the better car over the course of the year, yet Alonso won the title in a Renault.
Perhaps Massa just drove better than Fisi. Afterall Renault took the constructors title to go with the drivers. I would so overall the renault was the better car last year, but in the second half of the season the Ferrari did catch up and eek ahead.
Perhaps Massa just drove better than Fisi. Afterall Renault took the constructors title to go with the drivers. I would so overall the renault was the better car last year, but in the second half of the season the Ferrari did catch up and eek ahead.
