Melandri IS done at Ducati.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Jun 22 2008, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i reckon sete for end of this year, then in 09 bustista or simocelli.

they need a young guy who wont come with baggage and a range of excuses.

I actually agree with you.

I think I would be a very unwise choice for Nicky to go for the seat. He would need to have great feel from the bike to get into his point and shoot style that most of us love. With what Melandri has said, I think it would not work for Hayden. It will take a young gun to get the results.

Than again Nick has developed (good or bad) for HRC. That has to be worth something for where ever he ends up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jun 24 2008, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The same can be said for the Duc now....Stoner gets ANYTHING...Marco gets what they feel already works...vicious circle this debate don't you think?
It really is. I'm just of the opinion that Suppo has done everything he can to help Marco, after all getting Melandri was his dream since 2006.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jun 24 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you being funny, Hayden turned it down. If he hadn't where would Stoner be now? On his ride at HRC?
As much as I voiced my opinion that he should have taken that ride, who in their right mind would voluntarily leave HRC? Rossi doesn't count as he's not in his right mind.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 24 2008, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>cheer's mate and the feeling is mutual although we dont get treated to your opinion as often as i would like these days.

as sat teams went gresini had a pretty good package taking marco to 4th in the championship but the lcr wasn't all that bad. after all it took stoner to 8th with i dnf and 6 retirement's so fast it was, the crashes are debatable as to whether it was bike or rider and no i dont want to debate it (please)
I'm trying to get around here more frequently these days.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jun 24 2008, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you smoking some .... a bit more intoxicating than the guy in your avatar?
That's impossible.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jun 24 2008, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Get a room.
You're just jealous. Would it make you feel any better if we talked up TP Wonder Kid?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jun 24 2008, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How much more equal can you get than be in the same factory and be supplied with the same bike with teh same brand of tyres (believe they even rode on the same compounds at Donnington)?

Melandri beat Stoner at Turkey a couple seasons ago, i think Melandri did really well to win so many races on a non factory honda... its better than Nicky and Pedrosa did in the last couple years.

I don't think its a question of would melandri wipe the floor with stoner if melandri was happy on the bike... you could say the same about stoner on another bike would he be so good?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jun 24 2008, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're just jealous. Would it make you feel any better if we talked up TP Wonder Kid?
thats how you get in jumkies good book's. i still can't get over the no parachute

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 24 2008, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thats how you get in jumkies good book's. i still can't get over the no parachute
Did that movie come to DVD yet? I'm dying to see how that worked out. The kid is nutty. Jumkie don't read this portion. If he would just focus on one thing for more than eight months at a time, he would have more championships than he knew what to do with. But instead he's FMXing this weekend, rallying every other weekend, jumping out of a plane with no chute on Thursday, racing SX in a month, doing SuperMoto at the X Games and so on and so forth. Frankly I'm surprised he hasn't tried his hand at road racing, would certainly be interesting.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jun 24 2008, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did that movie come to DVD yet? I'm dying to see how that worked out. The kid is nutty. Jumkie don't read this portion. If he would just focus on one thing for more than eight months at a time, he would have more championships than he knew what to do with. But instead he's FMXing this weekend, rallying every other weekend, jumping out of a plane with no chute on Thursday, racing SX in a month, doing SuperMoto at the X Games and so on and so forth. Frankly I'm surprised he hasn't tried his hand at road racing, would certainly be interesting.
not seen a dvd but there is this mate.

<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lDBrdl2sZWs</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lDBrdl2sZWs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 25 2008, 04:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>cheer's mate and the feeling is mutual although we dont get treated to your opinion as often as i would like these days.

as sat teams went gresini had a pretty good package taking marco to 4th in the championship but the lcr wasn't all that bad. after all it took stoner to 8th with i dnf and 6 retirement's so fast it was, the crashes are debatable as to whether it was bike or rider and no i dont want to debate it (please)

I have linked to the article where Stoner alludes to the fact that he got different tyres on race day, and that is why he crashed so often in 06. He also says that he suggests the set-up.

http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_071...ship/index.html

I remember reading that Edwards said that he could not develop for Rossi as he and Rossi used different tyres. Whether by choice or not, he did not say. It is well known that Michelin have a pecking order, or perhaps contracts, and that Rossi at least, benefited from the overnight specials.
Perhaps another reason that Casey went to Ducati is because he would get away from the Michelin malarkey.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Jun 24 2008, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All things being equal Marco could wipe the floor with Stoner!

In '06, if you look at the 10 races that Stoner completed, Melandri finished in front of Stoner in 6 of them, and in most of those races, there is only 1 or 2 places betweeen them.
Since the Gresini Honda was arguably the better bike you could hardly say that that is wiping the floor with him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jun 24 2008, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think garry has been a race bike mechanic as I gather have you, so maybe he has an inside source, but I am not sure that everybody in the teams even really knows all the intricacies of what is going on, let alone is likely to reveal same.


Nope, me and mechanics don't get on.

But I do officiate (in various roles including scrutineering etc) at around 20 road race meetings per year and mix with people who have scrutinered 500cc/MotoGP bikes as well as been CoC at GP's etc.

But thanks for thinking it.





Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 24 2008, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>sorry gaz mate, but none of us know this to be a fact. it is quite possible they started the season on 2 different bikes for development purpose's. this is the type of stuff none of us can ever be sure of.


True, but in the case of Ducati and elandri I would say that it is unlikely given that MM is/was a very established rider with a reputation and history that should put him on equal footing. Also, being the italian on the italian bike I would suspect that he started with the same bike's configuration as what CS started.

No doubt however the individual preferences and developments have led them down totally opposing paths (or at least it looks that way).

But, as you rigtly say, we do not know for sure and likely never will until the MM biography comes out where he blames everyone but himself for his failing (seems to be the way nowadays with biographies) yet will accept total credit for his successes.





Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jun 24 2008, 02:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Would it make you feel any better if we talked up TP Wonder Kid?
Yes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jun 24 2008, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But, as you rigtly say, we do not know for sure and likely never will until the MM biography comes out where he blames everyone but himself for his failing (seems to be the way nowadays with biographies) yet will accept total credit for his successes.

Garry

Too true, unfortunately.

Why would they start out equal... just because hes Italian?

Moving to be team mate with the world champion is not always a good move as it sounds.

Nicky rejected Yamaha for similar reasons of being Rossi's team mate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 24 2008, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>not seen a dvd but there is this mate.

<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lDBrdl2sZWs</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lDBrdl2sZWs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>
Thank you Rog.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sarto @ Jun 25 2008, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In '06, if you look at the 10 races that Stoner completed, Melandri finished in front of Stoner in 6 of them, and in most of those races, there is only 1 or 2 places betweeen them.
Since the Gresini Honda was arguably the better bike you could hardly say that that is wiping the floor with him.


and in 06 stoner was only 19.

i'm sure in 1999 marco would of been whipping stoners ... when stoner was only 12 hahaa

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Jun 24 2008, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Melandri beat Stoner at Turkey a couple seasons ago, i think Melandri did really well to win so many races on a non factory honda... its better than Nicky and Pedrosa did in the last couple years.


There is no doubt at all that Melandri has talent and has done wll in previous seasons. That is not in question.

But to compare Melandri 2006 to CS 2006 is an unfair comparison as we are looking at year 1 for CS whereas MM had been around for a few years in the top class by that point. A fairer comparison may well be to compare CS and MM year 1 results, but it still proves nothing in the big scheme of things.

FWIW, I feel that MM has a lot more to offer but just not at Ducati as for whatever reasons he simply cannot get the bike to feel right for him (if the bike feels right, he will push and results will come). Overall and IMO he as been a major disappointment this year which is a shame given the hopes held out for him by a great number of people.




Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Jun 25 2008, 01:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why would they start out equal... just because hes Italian?

As I recall there was great emphasis and publicity surrounding Ducati's desire to have an italian on the italian bike (given that Loris was shafted). Couple this with the efforts to which Ducati ad alegedly gone to lure MM in 2006 and it was obvious that they rated him extremely highly and he was very sought after by the team (twas there not a rumour that MM had actually signed in 2006).

Then, look at his results on the satellite Honda which were quite good and it becomes obvious that he has talent.

Into the mix throw the fact (rumour) that CS was the fourth choice rider for 2007 but certainly went on to smash most expectations.

IMO when MM came into the team he was not the #2 rider by any means (in the way that CE was for VR as an example), but started on equal footing in terms of equipment. What has happenned since in terms of equipment and factory support (said to be full support) will likely be debated for years to come and may never be revealed.




Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jun 24 2008, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As I recall there was great emphasis and publicity surrounding Ducati's desire to have an italian on the italian bike (given that Loris was shafted). Couple this with the efforts to which Ducati ad alegedly gone to lure MM in 2006 and it was obvious that they rated him extremely highly and he was very sought after by the team (twas there not a rumour that MM had actually signed in 2006).

Then, look at his results on the satellite Honda which were quite good and it becomes obvious that he has talent.

Into the mix throw the fact (rumour) that CS was the fourth choice rider for 2007 but certainly went on to smash most expectations.

IMO when MM came into the team he was not the #2 rider by any means (in the way that CE was for VR as an example), but started on equal footing in terms of equipment. What has happenned since in terms of equipment and factory support (said to be full support) will likely be debated for years to come and may never be revealed.

Who are you?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jun 25 2008, 03:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who are you?


I am just a little opinionated fat ....... who recalls various comment/printed reports across the years and couldn't be gothered googling them.

Why you ask?




Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jun 25 2008, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As I recall there was great emphasis and publicity surrounding Ducati's desire to have an italian on the italian bike (given that Loris was shafted). Couple this with the efforts to which Ducati ad alegedly gone to lure MM in 2006 and it was obvious that they rated him extremely highly and he was very sought after by the team (twas there not a rumour that MM had actually signed in 2006).

Then, look at his results on the satellite Honda which were quite good and it becomes obvious that he has talent.

Into the mix throw the fact (rumour) that CS was the fourth choice rider for 2007 but certainly went on to smash most expectations.

IMO when MM came into the team he was not the #2 rider by any means (in the way that CE was for VR as an example), but started on equal footing in terms of equipment. What has happenned since in terms of equipment and factory support (said to be full support) will likely be debated for years to come and may never be revealed.




Garry
i find this very hard to believe mate. by this time casey had won them a wc and was deservedly there new golden boy. i think if anybody started out on equal footing to stoner it would have been capi at the start of 07 but by the middle of 07 the team's focus would have been on casey imho.as its been pointed out before, ducati are not the richest team out there and more than likely would not be able to afford to have 2 #1 riders in the team so would choose who to focus on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 25 2008, 08:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i find this very hard to believe mate. by this time casey had won them a wc and was deservedly there new golden boy. i think if anybody started out on equal footing to stoner it would have been capi at the start of 07 but by the middle of 07 the team's focus would have been on casey imho.as its been pointed out before, ducati are not the richest team out there and more than likely would not be able to afford to have 2 #1 riders in the team so would choose who to focus on.


It is only my opinion so no fact to back the comment up.

But I will agree (in part), but to me a #2 is what CE was to VR and personally I do not think that MM would have allowed himself to be placed in that position. IMO if MM went to Ducati on the knowledge that he was to be #2 then really, he probably has no valid points to complain about with respects to teh quipment he is being provided (not that he has yet complained, just forum speculation and comment).

Maybe the decisive point here is just when did MM sign the Ducati contract?






Garry