Marquez accused of cheating

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http://motomatters.c...c_marquez_.html



Translation: I know people have been accusing us of cheating because our bike appears to have a nitro turbo boost, but let us explain in detail why it appears like this, we try really really really hard during a race weekend, so you see, that why it looks like we are better than everybody else.



Ah, I see, got it.
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Jumkie said:
http://motomatters.c...c_marquez_.html



Translation: I know people have been accusing us of cheating because our bike appears to have a nitro turbo boost, but let us explain in detail why it appears like this, we try really really really hard during a race weekend, so you see, that why it looks like we are better than everybody else.



Ah, I see, got it.
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Click to expand...

Yep, clear as mud.

If he can carry that high corner speed in MotoGP he will check the .... out next year!
 
Kropotkin said:
If Marquez is top 5 after Wednesday, you know he is the real deal. I expect him to be top 4.
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Yes, this will be the proof. If he quickly demonstrates "alien" speed (not necessarily results, even rossi crashed a fair amount in his first season) then it would seem likely he really is that good. There won't be many excuses if he is midpack for him or repsol, given the insistence that he go straight to the factory team. I also expect him to go well; brashness may be his only problem which going, or being parachuted as some maintain, straight into a factory honda ride won't necessarily help.
 
Kropotkin said:
If Marquez is top 5 after Wednesday, you know he is the real deal. I expect him to be top 4.
Click to expand...



That is hardly a claim to being the real deal. He is on 1 or 4 good bikes. If he wasn't top 4 then it would be a concern considering all the lies and changes that have happen to pave the way on to 1 of the top 4 bikes.



Can you confirm if he is having Stoner's crew?
 
Kropotkin said:
If Marquez is top 5 after Wednesday, you know he is the real deal. I expect him to be top 4.
Click to expand...



Ah yes, great litmus test buddy. Put him on one of the top 4 best motorcycles and teams on the planet then see if he makes top 5. That should really tell us his talent level. Just like people & "experts" who have been telling us all year how great Bradl has done to be 5-7th on a bike that is 5-7th best, being so amazed at his performance. If only we could do what u propose as a iron clad talent indicator with say, another high profile European darling champ, maybe one who through results "appears" to be midpack, but when placed on the top 4 bikes/teams when he surely is top 4 we can all declare with certainty, ah, hes an "alien". Anyway, even if Marc isnt top 5 after the first Valencia test, we all know we will fall back on "hes a rookie", lets wait till next couple of test. At which point he will be top 5 given the fact hes on a top 4 machine team, then u can declare the same, ah yes, we knew it all along, he is undoubtedly an "alien".
 
Marquez will be judged against Pedrosa first & foremost. His lap time will need to be comparable to his team mate & the Factory Yamaha's.

The Marquez acceleration advantage to me is suspicious. Especially in a spec engine series.

He may well be the real deal. But not only does he have to ride a bike with far more power next year, but he has to ride against riders who are significantly better than the riders he has battled with in moto2.

It will be a massive step up for him.
 
Kropotkin said:
If Marquez is top 5 after Wednesday, you know he is the real deal. I expect him to be top 4.
Click to expand...





We are arguing sorites paradox here, 1st I utterly believe him, 2nd or 3rd I will still wonder, off the podium...



Lets burn an effigy.





I've always wanted to do that but I'm too fat and lazy. Why would you accept 5th as an indication of such high talent and integrity when he won the championship? Colin Edwards or Randy De Puniet could get a 5th place on average no problems.
 
Andy Roo said:
We are arguing sorites paradox here, 1st I utterly believe him, 2nd or 3rd I will still wonder, off the podium...



Lets burn an effigy.





I've always wanted to do that but I'm too fat and lazy. Why would you accept 5th as an indication of such high talent and integrity when he won the championship? Colin Edwards or Randy De Puniet could get a 5th place on average no problems.
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Second or third within the year would normally be proof imo, since that will involve beating one or two out of lorenzo, pedrosa and rossi on bikes of similar quality. Stoner on a satellite bike in particular, but also lorenzo, pedrosa, and even rossi crashed a lot in their first years in the premier class, and some would argue pedrosa and stoner never entirely gave up the habit. The bikes are much more powerful than moto2 and the top riders presumably much better as frizzle has said, and the tyres are apparently very different as well. Perhaps unfortunately for him marquez will likely be held to a higher standard given the possible machinations to get him on a top factory bike straight off, although imo the rookie rule was never integral to the sport or even particularly sensible, and pedrosa and lorenzo (at least) started in the premier class in similar positions.
 
Frizzle said:
Marquez will be judged against Pedrosa first & foremost.
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Agree with the rest of your post as well, but particularly that he needs to be competitive with pedrosa, not necessarily from the get-go in the first day of the post valencia test though. Both pedrosa and lorenzo won races in their rookie seasons, dani winning 2, so I think race wins are necessary if the boom/hype on him is to be justified.
 
michaelm said:
Second or third within the year would normally be proof imo, since that will involve beating one or two out of lorenzo, pedrosa and rossi on bikes of similar quality. Stoner on a satellite bike in particular, but also lorenzo, pedrosa, and even rossi crashed a lot in their first years in the premier class, and some would argue pedrosa and stoner never entirely gave up the habit.
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I don't agree.



Lets look at their debut years shall we?



Pedrosa (works bike) - Some crashes but also wins including a podium in his first race with a win in his 4th

Lorenzo (works bike) - More crashes but poles at the start of the year and a podium in his first race, with a win in his 3rd or 4th (can't remember)

Stoner (satelite bike) - Decent number of crashes but got a pole at round 2 and a podium which was nearly a win in Turkey.



If Marquez only gets a podium or two during the year that would be ridiculous. Given that essentially even if MotoGP becomes a Lorenzo/Pedrosa show every weekend, the only other works person he has to beat is Rossi...all the satelite bikes and Ducati's are nowhere near the top 4, which wasnt the case in 2006 or 2008.
 
michaelm said:
Second or third within the year would normally be proof imo, since that will involve beating one or two out of lorenzo, pedrosa and rossi on bikes of similar quality. Stoner on a satellite bike in particular, but also lorenzo, pedrosa, and even rossi crashed a lot in their first years in the premier class, and some would argue pedrosa and stoner never entirely gave up the habit. The bikes are much more powerful than moto2 and the top riders presumably much better as frizzle has said, and the tyres are apparently very different as well. Perhaps unfortunately for him marquez will likely be held to a higher standard given the possible machinations to get him on a top factory bike straight off, although imo the rookie rule was never integral to the sport or even particularly sensible, and pedrosa and lorenzo (at least) started in the premier class in similar positions.
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Well I was playing guitar, and then I drank some beer, played more guitar drank rum, played more guitar and realised I was in pain took tablets, washed then down with rum and then made that post. I also smoked some cigarettes and rang my sister.



A far more reasoned look at it, it top 3 by year 2 but 4th or better on year 1.



However I am still looking to our many engineers NASA employees, physics professors and Karl Krusintski (under his alias Barry the love machine from the hills of no soap) who has an answer for most everything (and especially zoot), who designed the little scissors thing I get my teabag out of the cup with to explain the likelyhood of the differences in revs coming out of corner and all of that guff I put in my earlier thread.
 
Bsnell said:
I don't agree.



Lets look at their debut years shall we?



Pedrosa (works bike) - Some crashes but also wins including a podium in his first race with a win in his 4th

Lorenzo (works bike) - More crashes but poles at the start of the year and a podium in his first race, with a win in his 3rd or 4th (can't remember)

Stoner (satelite bike) - Decent number of crashes but got a pole at round 2 and a podium which was nearly a win in Turkey.



If Marquez only gets a podium or two during the year that would be ridiculous. Given that essentially even if MotoGP becomes a Lorenzo/Pedrosa show every weekend, the only other works person he has to beat is Rossi...all the satelite bikes and Ducati's are nowhere near the top 4, which wasnt the case in 2006 or 2008.
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I meant second or 3rd overall, or regularly by year's end, not in a single race. I don't expect beating rossi on a factory yamaha to be at all easy either, very different than beating spies this year, particularly because I would be astonished if rossi has a similar number of bike mishaps to spies.



See my subsequent post. I think he needs wins, probably 2 if he is better than pedrosa as he has been hyped to be. More than 2 is a tough requirement, jorge only got 1 but was on michelins, and valentino got 2 in his first season , admittedly whilst finishing second in the championship.
 
Andy Roo said:
Well I was playing guitar, and then I drank some beer, played more guitar drank rum, played more guitar and realised I was in pain took tablets, washed then down with rum and then made that post. I also smoked some cigarettes and rang my sister.



A far more reasoned look at it, it top 3 by year 2 but 4th or better on year 1.



However I am still looking to our many engineers NASA employees, physics professors and Karl Krusintski (under his alias Barry the love machine from the hills of no soap) who has an answer for most everything (and especially zoot), who designed the little scissors thing I get my teabag out of the cup with to explain the likelyhood of the differences in revs coming out of corner and all of that guff I put in my earlier thread.
Click to expand...

I don't particularly like him because of the 2 practice incidents, but I do remember being upset about what was said concerning stoner in 2007, much of which turned out to be untrue, not that stoner didn't have some straightline advantage particularly early in the season and on some circuits.



I do think he needs to win races, probably 2 of them as I said in a subsequent post.
 
4 - He is lauded Rossi won 4 first season, I'll settle for three. Lorenzo is going to make it hard. Dani will retire to his sensory deprivation chamber and go for a run on his hamster wheel, he will have nothing next year.



He wil go poorly in November when men are expected to grow facial hair.
 
Andy Roo said:
4 - He is lauded Rossi won 4 first season, I'll settle for three. Lorenzo is going to make it hard. Dani will retire to his sensory deprivation chamber and go for a run on his hamster wheel, he will have nothing next year.



He wil go poorly in November when men are expected to grow facial hair.
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Nah, man, Rossi won 2 in his 500 debut. That was a cool season, with half a dozen race winners. How things have changed.

So Miracle Boy only needs to win 2 according to those standards.





As for your question concerning revs.

Is your tinfoil on tight?

Geo Tech build all the Moto2 donks. They will build them to a set of agreed specifications. All specifications have tolerances. Even on these 'optimised' and blueprinted motors, some combinations will be better than others - maybe the mystical and mythical engine #54 is built to the extremes of bore clearance. Maybe engine #54 gets the best valve springs. Maybe the porting is within the allowable form, but that form is 'better' than the others - perhaps better transition to the throat area.



But until I see Geonerd's sound analysis, I call all this 500/1000rpm extra revs bollocks. 1000 revs? wtf
 
Marquez is at it again!!!!

Just tried to kill Corsi in FP2!!!

Fcking race control need to grow some balls and punish the little fcuker so he starts to listen!!!
 
to the back of the grid you go. before this ECU revelation, I had begun suspecting their was something different about Marquez's bike. I was wondering if Honda had given him a 'special' engine, put a load of new engines on the dyno and hand the best engine to Marquez.



James Toseland revealed Ducati had done the same for his teammate, Laconi, when he won the WSBK championship in '04, loads of t-shirts printed for Laconi as world champ, nothing for Toseland
 
What an absolute farce that the rookie rule was scrapped because Marquez would have disrupted a satellite team's personnel. But now he is getting Stoner's crew and he is not even bringing his own crew.



A great big fat lie was told to the satellite teams to get them to support the decision to scrap the rookie rule.
 
Mental Anarchist said:
What an absolute farce that the rookie rule was scrapped because Marquez would have disrupted a satellite team's personnel. But now he is getting Stoner's crew and he is not even bringing his own crew.



A great big fat lie was told to the satellite teams to get them to support the decision to scrap the rookie rule.
Click to expand...



Marquez probably threaten to kill everybody if they didn't meet his demands.
 

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