Marquez accused of cheating

Dr No · Jun 5, 2013

Jumkie

3531081370461870

Kropos, that was a fantastic interview from Barth. He said some very interesting things. But, kind and learned friend' are u using this to prove Marquez was on an "inferior" bike? Or are u using this to advance your idea that Marquez didn't have a special edition of his own chassis at some point? Because this interview would do neither for you sir. Did you miss the part where he said, "from Aragon Suter started to concentrate on Marquez", basically the last third of the season. He left no room for our imagination by adding: "From my point of view that seems perfectly reasonable, if you want to avoid that, you have to make your own motorcycle." Avoid what?

I don't get it either, Jum. Perhaps it's my comprehension skills, but I read that comment as from Aragon 2011, they (Suter) started concentrating on Marquez. So regardless of the size of the rider and the reasons behind switching to Kalex, why is it unreasonable to think that Marquez's 2012 chassis wasn't something special??

Kropotkin · Jun 6, 2013

elitemafia

3531301370475855

but how come not one other Moto2 rider could do what he was doing EVERY weekend?

Occam's razor says talent. Unfortunately, Occam does not frequent this board, most posters preferring the philosophy of Alex Jones to that of William of Ockham.

Garbin · Jun 6, 2013

Kropotkin

3531621370519931

Occam's razor says talent. Unfortunately, Occam does not frequent this board, most posters preferring the philosophy of Alex Jones to that of William of Ockham.

As far as I could see it was a classic case of best rider on the best bike...

Kropotkin · Jun 6, 2013

Garbin

3531891370546800

As far as I could see it was a classic case of best rider on the best bike...

Best rider on the best Suter. The Kalex was a much better bike.

Jumkie · Jun 6, 2013

Kropotkin

3531621370519931

Occam's razor says talent. Unfortunately, Occam does not frequent this board, most posters preferring the philosophy of Alex Jones to that of William of Ockham.

Agree, however you picked up on the easiest part of his post to refute. Challenge yourself buddy. Since you used Barthy's interview to advance some point of yours, let us use his view to analyze this a bit further shall we... Or should we just cherry pick the parts we like? Barth seems to think that very small differences in a machine make little to no difference if the rider is able to mitigate. I have my own thoughts about this, but lets apply this to Marc's case. So then, we have established that Marc was on the "best Suter." This is progress. Now then, lets apply further Barthy's point of view, it would follow then that the next relevant question would be, 'just how inferior was Marc's personal Suter to the production (if I may) Kalex'? This would be hard to measure, given that Marc was schooling them, and I would agree with you, as a result of his fantastic talent. However, bare with me, lets think this through a bit; for example, as of Le Mans, anybody would be hard pressed to say the factory M1 is superior to the factory RCV, right? We generally accept that the M1 one is "inferior", but just how much so is difficult to measure. Now imagine if Yamaha decided tomorrow, for the next third of the season we will only concentrate all our development and resources on making a one-off M1 suit Lorenzo! Whereby in our example, he goes on and wins the title. At what point would we be able to assert the RCV's superiority to this 'custom' M1 vs the unique characteristic that make Lorenzo a world champ?

I realize you're not inclined to buy alternate explanations and theories (avoidance of further assumptions for the simplest) and enjoy pointing out the tin-hat conspiracies in us all, well, just me.

But good sir, the reality is that there are machinates not so concealed (Dorna), as well as view points and perspectives that can and should be challenged. If we were to apply Occam's Razor of proof to the Iraq war, then the road of least assumptions would be: we went there to liberate their people and us from weapons of mass destruction. You'd be hard pressed to find a press release admitting otherwise. Thanx Occam's and Sir William, we just bombed the .... out of you to give you a bit of freedom.

Big Jorge · Jun 6, 2013

Cals fault.

Jumkie · Jun 6, 2013

Big Jorge

3532041370553444

Cals fault.

Its like when a kid makes a unique and funny joke and everybody genuinely laughs. THEN...the kid proceeds in making the joke 20 more times.

Big Jorge · Jun 6, 2013

Guess I have 18 more before its worn out. :yeah:

Kropotkin · Jun 6, 2013

Woodrow Wilson's fault

Kropotkin · Jun 6, 2013

Jumkie

3532031370552941

Agree, however you picked up on the easiest part of his post to refute. Challenge yourself buddy. Since you used Barthy's interview to advance some point of yours, let us use his view to analyze this a bit further shall we... Or should we just cherry pick the parts we like? Barth seems to think that very small differences in a machine make little to no difference if the rider is able to mitigate. I have my own thoughts about this, but lets apply this to Marc's case. So then, we have established that Marc was on the "best Suter." This is progress. Now then, lets apply further Barthy's point of view, it would follow then that the next relevant question would be, 'just how inferior was Marc's personal Suter to the production (if I may) Kalex'? This would be hard to measure, given that Marc was schooling them, and I would agree with you, as a result of his fantastic talent. However, bare with me, lets think this through a bit; for example, as of Le Mans, anybody would be hard pressed to say the factory M1 is superior to the factory RCV, right? We generally accept that the M1 one is "inferior", but just how much so is difficult to measure. Now imagine if Yamaha decided tomorrow, for the next third of the season we will only concentrate all our development and resources on making a one-off M1 suit Lorenzo! Whereby in our example, he goes on and wins the title. At what point would we be able to assert the RCV's superiority to this 'custom' M1 vs the unique characteristic that make Lorenzo a world champ?

I realize you're not inclined to buy alternate explanations and theories (avoidance of further assumptions for the simplest) and enjoy pointing out the tin-hat conspiracies in us all, well, just me. But good sir, the reality is that there are machinates not so concealed (Dorna), as well as view points and perspectives that can and should be challenged. If we were to apply Occam's Razor of proof to the Iraq war, then the road of least assumptions would be: we went there to liberate their people and us from weapons of mass destruction. You'd be hard pressed to find a press release admitting otherwise. Thanx Occam's and Sir William, we just bombed the .... out of you to give you a bit of freedom.

For ....'s sake, Jum. I know you hate Marquez, but the kid already holds two ....... lap records in his first five MotoGP races. He was also set the fastest lap in three of those five races.

Yeah, it's the bike.

Actually, it's easier just to capitulate, and nod along with whatever happens to be the opinion du jour on PS. You're all right. Even SuperShinya56.

Jumkie · Jun 6, 2013

Kropotkin

3532171370556565

For ....'s sake, Jum. I know you hate Marquez, but the kid already holds two ....... lap records in his first five MotoGP races. He was also set the fastest lap in three of those five races.

Yeah, it's the bike.

Actually, it's easier just to capitulate, and nod along with whatever happens to be the opinion du jour on PS. You're all right. Even SuperShinya56.

:lol: Oh come on, you have thicker skin than that, surely. I don't hate Marky, you're a fool if you think so, or better yet, I'm simply right that you are suffering from Mac-bonerbop. I'm just happy to challenge the notion that he is not Jesus, Buddha, BJC, and Muhammed all wrapped up into one. He is impressive, as impressive as were other super talented rider's debuts given their super competitive bike (a fact you want to downplay). You've gone the way of the bopper/boners man! Unable to stomach any bit of criticism of the lad. You are more than happy to quote Barthy & Bradders, and who ever to advance your points that Marc is devine, but when I use the very same people you quote to make a reasonable counterpoint, you go all "you just hate Marc" on me?

It wasn't sufficient that he won the Moto2, but he did it on an "inferior" bike. Its not enough that he had a high speed crash, it was the "fastest" of all time. Its not that he is dangerous, he is just going for a "gap". That spot on the track is unsafe because... he crashed at that spot. Being on the best bike in MotoGP surrounded by the best staff has nothing to do with his success, right.

Jumkie · Jun 6, 2013

.... you Jum.

Dr No · Jun 6, 2013

Kropotkin

3531951370549713

Best rider on the best Suter. The Kalex was a much better bike.

You repeatedly write this to support your Marquez-dominated-on-an-inferior-bike theme.

I haven't seen you provide data, point out specific areas of superiority/inferiority...just quotes of "........" from Barthy that don't actually support your position...

To be fair, I'll go first:

Suter.

Constructors Champion for all 3 Moto2 championships.

2012 Rider's WC bike.

2nd and 3rd in 2011 Rider's WC.

2nd in 2010 RIder's WC (against a Moriwaki, remember them?)

.... bike.

Garbin · Jun 6, 2013

Kropotkin

3531951370549713

Best rider on the best Suter. The Kalex was a much better bike.

So who has Marky's 2012 bike now or has it been mysteriously dismantled in order to conceal the evidence? (Apologies in advance but I've been watching a lot of conspiracy theory crap on YouTube recently and it's probably all down to the illuminati aka Repsol Honda)

Geonerd · Jun 6, 2013

Garbin

3532411370582012

So who has Marky's 2012 bike now or has it been mysteriously dismantled in order to conceal the evidence? (Apologies in advance but I've been watching a lot of conspiracy theory crap on YouTube recently and it's probably all down to the illuminati aka Repsol Honda)

That's a hell of a coincidence!

I'd like our resident Minister of Disinformation to explain that away!

Mr. Potkin should be back in the house soon. He's currently out on a job for NASA, trying to explain away the infamous Mars Rat as "Nothing more than shadows and rocks...." :whistling:

Kropotkin · Jun 7, 2013

Garbin

3532411370582012

So who has Marky's 2012 bike now or has it been mysteriously dismantled in order to conceal the evidence? (Apologies in advance but I've been watching a lot of conspiracy theory crap on YouTube recently and it's probably all down to the illuminati aka Repsol Honda)

Zarco.

Kropotkin · Jun 7, 2013

Bored.

Marquez accused of cheating

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

Dr No

SPECTRE

Kropotkin

Garbin

Kropotkin

Jumkie

Big Jorge

Jumkie

Big Jorge

Kropotkin

Kropotkin

Jumkie

Jumkie

Dr No

SPECTRE

Garbin

Geonerd

Desert Varmint

Kropotkin

Kropotkin

Similar threads

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions