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Marquez accused of cheating

Suffering from confirmation bias.
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[font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Cliche translation. Better than Giggle translation.[/font]



Hahaha You got Cliche to translate it Jumks!

I couldn't get google to translate it for some reason and was thinking of doing the same.

Cheers to you both
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I was looking for a little smiley that has someone sweeping .... under the carpet. If someone finds it please post it for me. Ant West will suffer more for some over the counter nasal spray.



It will be fixed for Marquez, Marc my words...(okay I've used that twice now, I just enjoy feeling vindicated). That basket doesn't seem to have enough eggs in it. When the chosen get punished (yeah right) then they have to start hyping up the non cheaters who they've steadfastly ignored.



Marquez is just getting ready for the control ECU in moto1



You know this type of paranoia and conspiracy type thinking isn't prevalent in any other forums.



Hello my genius wizard friends, who look with their eyes and not their minds.



Their minds process what their eyes see, not the other way around.



Powerslide
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Jumkie - please insert 10,000 word essay
 
Hahaha You got Cliche to translate it Jumks!

I couldn't get google to translate it for some reason and was thinking of doing the same.

Cheers to you both
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yeah good job jums!
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anybody able to find a copy of speed week online?if not, i can hop on my moped and get one from a gas station if you guys are interested in reading the whole thing.

todays a day off so i got nothing better to do than translating it,right
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Well, according to this little piece, the accusations are all part of a witch-hunt by a conspiracy of german speaking evil-doers. Ironically, the piece is not exactly a shining example of journalistic objectivity.



http://www.racing4fu...gstheorien.html
True, but neither was the SpeedWeek article. This rebuttal seems to be saying that the the "technician's" a knob and pumping air and fuel into the cylinders while speed shifting makes no difference whatsoever... even if they could achieve it nefariously...
 
True, but neither was the SpeedWeek article. This rebuttal seems to be saying that the the "technician's" a knob and pumping air and fuel into the cylinders while speed shifting makes no difference whatsoever... even if they could achieve it nefariously...



Best bit is Nakamoto offering to give anyone who could prove they could hack the ECU a contract. I would bet it could be done, but I bet it is a lot harder using the tool provided to the Moto2 teams. You'd probably need physical access to the ECU.
 
Best bit is Nakamoto offering to give anyone who could prove they could hack the ECU a contract. I would bet it could be done, but I bet it is a lot harder using the tool provided to the Moto2 teams. You'd probably need physical access to the ECU.





Have you ever watched a documentary called 'Hacking Democracy&rsquo;? Get yourself educated buddy. Man is capable of anything and seems most ingenious when it comes to using his intelligence for cheating.
 
Have you ever watched a documentary called 'Hacking Democracy&rsquo;? Get yourself educated buddy. Man is capable of anything and seems most ingenious when it comes to using his intelligence for cheating.



I am 100% convinced that the ECU (or any piece of hardware) is hackable. No question. That's not what I am doubting here.
 
We shall see how that translates into MotoGP next year...I almost feel bad for this kid as he has tons of pressure heaped upon his small stature.



Feel sorry?
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He is caught cheating, sorta, while another guy gets busted for some cough syrup, one is banned for a month, the other is rewarded the top bike-team-technicians combo in the entire sport. Nobody expects Marc to win the title, but he'll have the best possible chance to succeed. Poor guy.
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Hahaha You got Cliche to translate it Jumks!

I couldn't get google to translate it for some reason and was thinking of doing the same.

Cheers to you both
<



Yeah, and now he wants a bit of payback. Gots me translating the Spanish article. Anyway, here is some of it:



(Jumkie Translate®, better than Google.)





Una cabeza que piensa 500 rpm más rápido

Sólo él logra con su forma de pilotar un paso por curva 10 km/h más veloz.


http://www.marca.com...1351598422.html





A head that thinks 500 rpm faster

He is a rider that does this with cornering 10 km / h faster.






La distancia entre unos pilotos y otros se encuentra encerrada en el cráneo. Es un secreto intransferible. "Un gran piloto se diferencia de un gran campeón por su cabeza", dijo hace unos años Valentino Rossi. La cabeza es el motor principal. El otro, con sus cilindros, sólo obedece órdenes. El gas, la frenada, la derrapada, son pura abstracción. Detrás hay un proceso de aprendizaje. Para algunos, la mecánica es sencilla, intuitiva, como el profundo talento de Stoner. Otros necesitan interiorizarlo y ensayar una y otra vez.





The difference between riders is all in the head. It's a secret not transferable. "It&rsquo;s the head that is the difference between a great rider and a great champion. " said Valentino Rossi a few years ago. The head is the main engine. The other, with its cylinders, only obeys orders. The concepts of gas, braking, skid are abstract and part of a learning process. For some, the mechanics are simple, intuitive, as it is for highly talented riders like Stoner. Others need to internalize these concepts by testing again and again.





Márquez es un cóctel explosivo. Su instinto en moto es el de un vaquero, cabalga por encima de los pianos con la fusta en la mano, acodándose sobre el asfalto cuando lo necesita, haciendo bailar a su moto para hacerla entrar en la razón de una curva inimaginable. "Hasta mitad del año pasado no sabía cómo disfrutar con la moto". Ahora, juega en el alambre. Su agresividad es endemoniada. Y lo conjuga con una visión de las carreras propia de un veterano.





Marquez is an explosive cocktail. His instinct on a bike is like a cowboy, ride over the curbs with the whip in his hand. (Hahaha, sorry, this made me laugh) He goes on the tarmac when needed, making his bike dance making her (bike) see reason into an unimaginable curve. (Yes guys, the person writing this article sounds like a ..., haha, sorry, I should just stick to translating). "Up to about half way through last year he did not know how to enjoy the bike." Now playing on the wire. His aggression is devilis coupled with a vision of a veteran.





"Para mí es impresionante. Nunca vi algo parecido en mi vida, incluso cuando trabajé con Gardner o Lawson", explica Didier Langouet, ingeniero de Suter, la marca que se ha proclamado campeona por vez primera en Moto2. Su forma de sentir la moto es prodigiosa a su edad. "Es muy joven y consigue entender cosas y transmitirlas como no he visto a nadie", añade el técnico, que no cree posible equiparar a Marc y a Rossi "porque es difícil comparar pilotos. Son diferentes: a Vale le gusta el show y Marc no es así", pero sí afirma que técnicamente, Marc quizá supera al italiano: "Para mí, Marc es más eficiente como piloto".





"For me it's impressive. I&rsquo;ve never seen anything like it in my life, even when I worked with Gardner and Lawson," explains Didier Langouet engineer Suter, the brand that has been proclaimed champion for the first time in Moto2. The way he understand the bike is like a real prodigy. "Despite him being so young he is able to understand things and transmit them as I have not seen anyone," added the tech, who believes its hard to equate Marc to Rossi in this regard "because it is difficult to compare riders from different eras: Vale likes the show, Marc is not like that ", but says that technically, maybe Marc exceeds the Italian:" For me, Marc is more efficient as a pilot. "







(Jesus, ok, ran out of time, will translate the rest in a bit. So far I&rsquo;m wondering if the article will conclude with this guy giving Marc a .........)
 
Feel sorry?
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He is caught cheating, sorta, while another guy gets busted for some cough syrup, one is banned for a month, the other is rewarded the top bike-team-technicians combo in the entire sport. Nobody expects Marc to win the title, but he'll have the best possible chance to succeed. Poor guy.
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Jum's...I did say "almost"
 
gracias senor

don't bother with it if its what it appears to be.



Ah shut it, too late.
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Here is the last half:




Patrick Primmer, un australiano que trabaja para Ohlins, marca de muelles y amortiguadores, y que se desdobla entre el box de Lorenzo y Marc, no dio crédito la primera vez que lo conoció. "Hay pilotos que necesitan años para transmitir lo que se siente encima de la moto y él, el primer día, ya me dejó pasmado". Además de su fluidez para relatarle con fidelidad lo que sentía en inglés, idioma con el que se comunica con Santi Hernández, su jefe de mecánicos desde 2011.





Patrick Primmer, an Australian working for Ohlins, the brand of springs and dampers, who works between the garage of Marc and Lorenzo. He didn&rsquo;t quite believe it at first when he met Marc. "There are pilots who need years to convey what you feel on the bike, yet on the first day I was stunned." He could transmit what he felt with amazing accuracy and fluency in English to Santi Hernández, his crew chief since 2011.





Para este mecánico, que trabajó para pilotos como Crivillé, Rossi o Gibernau lo más llamativo es lo que el ojo no ve. "La telemetría dice muchas cosas sobre Marc. Sorprende ver cómo conduce, cómo acelera, cómo pasa por curva. Nos sorprende la facilidad que tiene para adaptar su pilotaje a los problemas de la moto y cómo los suple", revela Hernández para el que Marc trabaja duro en un aspecto clave: "Se centra donde él sabe que, por su pilotaje, no puede mejorar el tiempo. No muchos pilotos están capacitados".





For this mechanic, who worked for pilots such as Crivillé, Rossi and Gibernau, most striking is what the eye does not see. "Telemetry says a lot about Marc's amazing way he accelerates, how he negotiates curves and passes. We are surprised how easy it is for him to adapt his riding around problems of the bike ." reveals Marc Hernandez, who works for Marc in this area, "he knows where to focuses his efforts, knowing he can not improve his time in some areas, many riders are not capable of this."





Cuestionado en algunos foros que arguyen que, aunque los motores de Moto2 -Honda- son todos iguales, algo esconden en el equipo, Márquez nunca hizo caso de las especulaciones. Tampoco algunos de sus rivales. Aspar, ex piloto y director de un equipo en Moto2 con dos Suter, desvela la pócima mágica de Márquez. "Comparando nuestra telemetría con la suya es asombroso lo que se ve", dice.





Even though there is suspicion in some circles that argue although Honda Moto2 engines-are all the supposed to be the same spec, there is a question that something may be hidden on his computer, Marquez has never paid attention to the speculation. Nor do some of his rivals like Aspar, a former pilot and director with two Suter Moto2 entires, reveals the magic potion of Marquez. "Comparing our telemetry with his it is amazing what you see," he says.





Y lo que se descubre es un estilo particular que encierra los caballos de potencia no debajo del carenado sino en su muñeca. "Tiene un paso por curva sensacional, unos 8 ó 10 km/h más rápido que nadie, eso le permite tener dos o tres caballos en la mano cuando acelera porque estas motos corren todas igual", asegura.





And what one will discover is a particular style, not what encompasses the horsepower under the fairing, but rather on his wrist. "He has a sensational cornering speed, about 8 to 10 km / h faster than anyone else, it allows you to have two or three horses in hand when accelerating because these bikes are all the same," he assures us.





Santi corrobora esta información. "Cuando haces un paso por curva rápido, el régimen de motor es alto y la aceleración es mayor. Con estos motores muy estándar cuando más bajo vas de revoluciones más cuesta llegar al mejor par del motor", explica su mecánico, basando su técnica en una buena colocación de la moto en la frenada, dejándola correr después.





Santi corroborates this information. "When you take are faster in cornering, the engine regimen (I think they refer to revolutions) is high and the acceleration is greater. With these engines the lower the rev more its more difficult to reach the best motor torque," said his mechanic, basing this on his technique of good bike placement under braking, allowing them to have drive out of the corner.





Aspar cree que, la diferencia entre Marc y los demás en el régimen del motor es de 500 rpm. "No es que su motor acelere más, es que él acelera más y mucho antes", confirma. Esta técnica hunde sus raíces en la experiencia de 2011. "De este año al pasado hemos visto en el ordenador que pasa unos 5 km/h más rápido por curva. Los neumáticos han cambiado un poco y el chasis, pero lo hace siempre", asegura Hernández, que ha visto a un Marc "más maduro. Al principio le llevaba la moto a él y ahora él lleva a la moto". Como ejemplo, Indianápolis. "La carrera fue 35 segundos más rápida, casi un segundo y medio más veloz por vuelta.





Aspar believes that the difference between Marc and the other in terms of speed is 500 rpm. "Its not that his motor accelerates faster, it is that he accelerates more, he much earlier," he confirms. This technique is rooted in his experience from the 2011 season. "In the past year we have seen on the computer about 5 km / h faster cornering speed. Tires have changed a bit and the chassis, but it always does," said Hernandez, who has seen a Marc "more mature. Who use to be governed by his bike and now he governs the bike. "As an example, in Indianapolis. "The race was 35 seconds faster, almost a half second faster per lap.









(Wow, that felt like a waste of time. Lots of praise. Ok, we get it, the kid is a phenomenal talent. But their entire explanation hinges on the claim he accelerates earlier than everybody else. That is the silver bullet? OK.)



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Jum's...I did say "almost"




Got it.
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Btw, when is Baturo gonna chime in on this thread?
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Reminiscent of varying conspiracy theories concerning the 2007 ducati, the extra litre in the overflow etc. I wouldn't dismiss riding making a difference, Stoner's superiority last weekend was presumably rider related, whether or not riding like stoner is sustainable, as it would seem unlikely he had a better bike than dani pedrosa in the circumstances. There are other examples like rossi's yellow flag race, also at PI.



I am keeping an open mind on marquez, particularly not having followed moto2 very closely. He seems to be very good. Not so impressed by the the 2 practice crashes into other riders, or the penalty for the recent one being reversed.



Also seems likely to be true as kropotkin says that pretty much anything is hackable though.
 
If someone can hack into Sony PS3 data to get names passwords etc

I'm sure some smartass could easily do the same to an ECU

The hard part would be covering it up!

Wouldn't it?
 
True, but neither was the SpeedWeek article. This rebuttal seems to be saying that the the "technician's" a knob and pumping air and fuel into the cylinders while speed shifting makes no difference whatsoever... even if they could achieve it nefariously...





Is the accusation even tenable?

Where are the nice flames out the exhaust from a nice rich mix going into the exhaust?

What's the sampling rate on the Lambda sensor v the quickshifter cut-out delay? Does the quickshifter even cut the injection?

I can imagine some programming that allows a false lambda reading during/after the shift cut-out, but just keeping the injectors pumping sounds....lame.



Geonerd?

Zoots?
 
Is the accusation even tenable?

Where are the nice flames out the exhaust from a nice rich mix going into the exhaust?

What's the sampling rate on the Lambda sensor v the quickshifter cut-out delay? Does the quickshifter even cut the injection?

I can imagine some programming that allows a false lambda reading during/after the shift cut-out, but just keeping the injectors pumping sounds....lame.



Geonerd?

Zoots?

I agree, seems unlikely, and even if they can hack an ecu hiding having done it would be the trick as has been said.



There are lots of things that can be done in formulae with controlled engines if you have better resources and/or a better designer as redbull demonstrate in F1, skating close to the edge of the rules or not. I don't even know the rules in moto2, do they have limits on the number of engines? Can marquez's team replace engines more frequently than poorer teams, or test out more engines to find particularly good ones etc.
 

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