Lorenzo to satellite Ducati !!??

Barbedwirebikerr · Aug 13, 2019

p4p1 said:
That last sentence points out the horrible nature of being a sportsmen Dovi is better than everybody but let’s say 10 people currently living will or have ever been but he has barely anymore chance of winning a motogp title at the other 6 or 7 billion people in the world.

Dovi may win a title this year IF Marc loses it. Same may be said for next year also. I doubt Dovi has a Ducati contract beyond 2020.

Keshav · Aug 13, 2019

michaelm said:
He has 5 more titles than you have, and 4 more than Dovi including the 3 premier class titles, with Dovi scarcely more likely to win one of the latter than you are.

Your point being?

320Dave · Aug 13, 2019

Keshav said:
No new bike. But rumor has it that Alpinestars is developing a Lorenzo limited edition set of leathers with sophisticated electronics that sense when he gets ejected from the bike and instantly turns into a full body cast and dispenses lollipops.

Lol you hate this guy more than Pigs loves Rossi.

I know he's a .... and has always been one but Stoner liked him so I kinda give him the benefit of the doubt because of that.

Remember in 2011 when he chopped a finger off and the only guy to visit him at the clinic was Stoner?

Must have something to get ANY sympathy out of Casey right?

Keshav · Aug 13, 2019

320Dave said:
Lol you hate this guy more than Pigs loves Rossi.

I know he's a .... and has always been one but Stoner liked him so I kinda give him the benefit of the doubt because of that.

Remember in 2011 when he chopped a finger off and the only guy to visit him at the clinic was Stoner?

Must have something to get ANY sympathy out of Casey right?

Ha ha, nahh I don't really hate on him. I've been kind of reacting (and maybe channeling a little Jumkie) to what seems to me a lot of over-lionizing of Lorenzo with folks who seem to believe he should have been kept on as #1 Rider at Ducati with Dovi in the doghouse. If he's a prickly self-entitled little sourpuss that is, I don't know, genetics, or upbringing or whatever, (watch out - here comes the "Cod Psychology" label) and is not I imagine, a mantle he consciously set out to wear. Given the end result of the Rossi/Ducati debacle, I figured he was pretty gutsy to jump into that mix. I was disappointed that he didn't fight to stay on Ducati and make his mark there. Also - I thought it was suicidely stupid to jump to the Honda given it's known characteristics and the fate of all the recent Honda riders not named Marquez. In the end - I don't think I've ever really hated any rider. I sure as hell never root for any rider to fail. If Lorenzo makes a real come-back on either the HRC or Ducati I'll enjoy seeing that as much as anyone.

michaelm · Aug 13, 2019

Keshav said:
Your point being?

He is actually a top 10 rider all time, and you touch on a major reason why I actually came to admire him, the guy is a tough ....... who defended each of his titles to the absolute limit, came back from career threatening concussion before he ever won a premier class title, incredibly rode after fracturing a clavicle and having it plated, etc. You are the last person I would have expected to joke about riders falling off, particularly a guy who has been an all time great currently out injured for a prolonged period perhaps with his career in question. My animus against Rossi was always directed at his off track manipulations and occasional on track chicanery and hypocrisy in regard to the latter. I have never doubted his quality as a rider, but even he found a bike he couldn’t ride, which said more about Ducati’s bike and about Stoner than it did about him, and I think a similar conclusion can be drawn about Jorge on the Honda. Everybody has been falling off the recent Hondas for years, including MM outside of race days, and he is quite probably the greatest ever; this is the one thing which gives your boy Dovi a chance of a title as has been said. Dovi was also mediocre for a number of years before finally getting to his current level on the Ducati, there was some question whether they kept him or Iannone as I recall.

Keshav · Aug 13, 2019

michaelm said:
He is actually a top 10 rider all time, and you touch on a major reason why I actually came to admire him, the guy is a tough ....... who defended each of his titles to the absolute limit, came back from career threatening concussion before he ever won a premier class title, incredibly rode after fracturing a clavicle and having it plated, etc. You are the last person I would have expected to joke about riders falling off, particularly a guy who has been an all time great currently out injured for a prolonged period perhaps with his career in question. My animus against Rossi was always directed at his off track manipulations and occasional on track chicanery and hypocrisy in regard to the latter. I have never doubted his quality as a rider, but even he found a bike he couldn’t ride, which said more about Ducati’s bike and about Stoner than it did about him, and I think a similar conclusion can be drawn about Jorge on the Honda. Everybody has been falling off the recent Hondas for years, including MM outside of race days, and he is quite probably the greatest ever; this is the one thing which gives your boy Dovi a chance of a title as has been said. Dovi was also mediocre for a number of years before finally getting to his current level on the Ducati, there was some question whether they kept him or Iannone as I recall.

No harm in a bit of forum based black humor about the repeated crashes he's had that have made him largely useless to the overall team effort for points scoring by way of absence; a bit of schadenfreude as it were, in light of his (perceived) Napoleon-like sense of snitty self-entitlement. I would say - BTW - that I don't recall you getting all up in arms when everybody on the forum took to referring to Cal as "Crashlow". It's nothing but 1s and 0s floating around on the interweb and of no consequence to Lorenzo.

MdubSTYLIE · Aug 13, 2019

Keshav said:
Ha ha, nahh I don't really hate on him. I've been kind of reacting (and maybe channeling a little Jumkie) to what seems to me a lot of over-lionizing of Lorenzo with folks who seem to believe he should have been kept on as #1 Rider at Ducati with Dovi in the doghouse. If he's a prickly self-entitled little sourpuss that is, I don't know, genetics, or upbringing or whatever, (watch out - here comes the "Cod Psychology" label) and is not I imagine, a mantle he consciously set out to wear. Given the end result of the Rossi/Ducati debacle, I figured he was pretty gutsy to jump into that mix. I was disappointed that he didn't fight to stay on Ducati and make his mark there. Also - I thought it was suicidely stupid to jump to the Honda given it's known characteristics and the fate of all the recent Honda riders not named Marquez. In the end - I don't think I've ever really hated any rider. I sure as hell never root for any rider to fail. If Lorenzo makes a real come-back on either the HRC or Ducati I'll enjoy seeing that as much as anyone.

Good to see you have let things go. You should learn from the new bread of motogp riders and give up.

Keshav · Aug 13, 2019

MdubSTYLIE said:
Good to see you have let things go. You should learn from the new bread of motogp riders and give up.

Once again in your rush to lay on a gotcha you manage to perceive malice where none exists and (big surprise) fail reading comprehension 101. The reference to Jum was an homage. As to to the other part. . . I've been gluten free for years.

yamfan · Aug 13, 2019

Keshav said:
No harm in a bit of forum based black humor about the repeated crashes he's had that have made him largely useless to the overall team effort for points scoring by way of absence; a bit of schadenfreude as it were, in light of his (perceived) Napoleon-like sense of snitty self-entitlement. I would say - BTW - that I don't recall you getting all up in arms when everybody on the forum took to referring to Cal as "Crashlow". It's nothing but 1s and 0s floating around on the interweb and of no consequence to Lorenzo.

To be honest kesh, you keep making references to Lorenzo’s personality and taking digs that are ill founded to say the least.
Having met the man away from the track, he came across as friendly, funny and generous.
We were on holiday in a restaurant when he came in with his friends for coffee. Upon noticing my kids looking at him, he excused himself from his friends and came over and asked if he could sit with us. He chatted for quite a while, signing the kids #99 caps and shirts, then upon leaving had the waitress bring my kids two huge ice cream sundaes on his tab.
I get it he can be spiky at the track but that’s work for him, also to my knowledge he’s never expected a team mate to help him to win a title, something that can’t be said for Dovi this year. I’m disappointed with Dovi and thought he had more honour than to expect Petrux assist his title quest.
As for Lorenzo leaving Ducati, he didn’t leave without serious worry and regret, he was (rightly so) castigated for poor performance and as good as told he was out after Le Mans. His call to HRC was an act of pretty much desperation to ensure he had a ride for 2019.
Dovi didn’t want him in the team and no doubt had talks (as #1 rider would) with Ducati management to install Petrux as #2 and a willing assistant in the 2019 title quest.
I realise you’re intending your digs as dark humour, but sometimes you’re coming over as a bit of a hater. Something we on this forum have always disliked about a certain element of VR fans.
Please don’t see this as any form of attack on you or your opinions, I’m just telling you an alternative view and my personal experience of Lorenzo.

michaelm · Aug 13, 2019

Keshav said:
No harm in a bit of forum based black humor about the repeated crashes he's had that have made him largely useless to the overall team effort for points scoring by way of absence; a bit of schadenfreude as it were, in light of his (perceived) Napoleon-like sense of snitty self-entitlement. I would say - BTW - that I don't recall you getting all up in arms when everybody on the forum took to referring to Cal as "Crashlow". It's nothing but 1s and 0s floating around on the interweb and of no consequence to Lorenzo.

I did actually disagree with the Crashlow stuff if not as vehemently as I have now in regard to Lorenzo, and never took part in it, being something of a Crutchlow fan apart from anything else. Cal is also not a top 10 all time premier class GP rider.

Libby also accords with Yamfan’s view of Lorenzo off track btw. I agree Lorenzo should have let Dovi past in 2017, but this seems to have been spun into Lorenzo costing Dovi the title which it didn’t. Both of them needed to finish in front of MM, and if I was Lorenzo and disliked Dovi I would probably only have let him past at the end of the race particularly if I considered Dovi to be benefiting from my improvement of the bike. The problem with your version of events is that Gigi who should know would appear to back Lorenzo. Lorenzo is also a guy who beat Stoner fair and square for titles, while Stoner was able to get off his fishing boat and smoke Dovi, which may have been formative in Gigi’s view of things, and certainly Gigi at the time wanted Stoner to prove the true potential of his bike.

Keshav · Aug 13, 2019

yamfan said:
To be honest kesh, you keep making references to Lorenzo’s personality and taking digs that are ill founded to say the least.
Having met the man away from the track, he came across as friendly, funny and generous.
We were on holiday in a restaurant when he came in with his friends for coffee. Upon noticing my kids looking at him, he excused himself from his friends and came over and asked if he could sit with us. He chatted for quite a while, signing the kids #99 caps and shirts, then upon leaving had the waitress bring my kids two huge ice cream sundaes on his tab.
I get it he can be spiky at the track but that’s work for him, also to my knowledge he’s never expected a team mate to help him to win a title, something that can’t be said for Dovi this year. I’m disappointed with Dovi and thought he had more honour than to expect Petrux assist his title quest.
As for Lorenzo leaving Ducati, he didn’t leave without serious worry and regret, he was (rightly so) castigated for poor performance and as good as told he was out after Le Mans. His call to HRC was an act of pretty much desperation to ensure he had a ride for 2019.
Dovi didn’t want him in the team and no doubt had talks (as #1 rider would) with Ducati management to install Petrux as #2 and a willing assistant in the 2019 title quest.
I realise you’re intending your digs as dark humour, but sometimes you’re coming over as a bit of a hater. Something we on this forum have always disliked about a certain element of VR fans.
Please don’t see this as any form of attack on you or your opinions, I’m just telling you an alternative view and my personal experience of Lorenzo.

Perceptions will differ. I don't take your observations personally.

Keshav · Aug 13, 2019

michaelm said:
I did actually disagree with the Crashlow stuff if not as vehemtly as I have now in regard to Lorenzo, and never took part in it, being something of a Crutchlow fan apart from anything else. Cal is also not a top 10 all time premier class GP rider.

Libby also accords with Yamfan’s view of Lorenzo off track btw. I agree Lorenzo should have let Dovi past in 2017, but this seems to have been spun into Lorenzo costing Dovi the title which it didn’t. Both of them needed to finish in front of MM, and if I was Lorenzo and disliked Dovi I would probably only have let him past at the end of the race particularly if I considered Dovi to be benefiting from my improvement of the bike. The problem with your version of events is that Gigi who should know would appear to back Lorenzo. Lorenzo is also a guy who beat Stoner fair and square for titles, while Stoner was able to get off his fishing boat and smoke Dovi, which may have been formative in Gigi’s view of things, and certainly Gigi at the time wanted Stoner to prove the true potential of his bike.

I've never said Lorenzo wasn't talented. That's not the issue. Never was. How he treats fans may or may not be an indication of his true nature. Most celebs are well versed in the art of virtue signalling and politesse, which is not a thing that concerns me. It's how they act on the track that concerns me. I've said before, many times, I'm happy to be proved wrong on stuff like this. As regards the relationship between Gigi and Dovi - we can speculate endlessly, but I'm really not big on gossip. Which is not to say I wouldn't love to be a fly on the wall with those two in the motorhome. Gigi's apparent preference for Lorenzo could be based on any number of personal predilections.

yamfan · Aug 13, 2019

Keshav said:
I've never said Lorenzo wasn't talented. That's not the issue. Never was. How he treats fans may or may not be an indication of his true nature. Most celebs are well versed in the art of virtue signalling and politesse, which is not a thing that concerns me. It's how they act on the track that concerns me. I've said before, many times, I'm happy to be proved wrong on stuff like this. As regards the relationship between Gigi and Dovi - we can speculate endlessly, but I'm really not big on gossip. Which is not to say I wouldn't love to be a fly on the wall with those two in the motorhome. Gigi's apparent preference for Lorenzo could be based on any number of personal predilections.

You say well versed in virtue signaling and politesse buddy, that’s all well in the public eye and in front of tv cameras and the press.
My family of four, the restaurant owner and a waitress, plus Lorenzo and five friends were the only ones in this small Spanish restaurant.
It was around 6 years ago.
Lorenzo has absolutely no reason to even acknowledge us, apart from he saw my kids excitement and shirts. I assure you it was a genuine gesture that my kids will never forget or tire of telling others.
Half the ........ about Lorenzo has been invented by pro VR press, tv media and fans who are sore he and Stoner stopped VR’s run of titles. To this day some still hate them, including some of my friends who freely admit this fact, oh and Marquez too[emoji1]
Gigi’s preference for Lorenzo stems back to the working together during his 250 days with Aprilia, where together they developed the bike to a regular championship winning machine. It’s said Gigi rates Lorenzo immensely as a development rider who’s feedback is totally accurate.
Who knows, others may differ big time...

This is interesting too [emoji1]

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/...anagement-disaster-could-cost-it-motogp-glory

ratdeal · Aug 13, 2019

yamfan said:
Lorenzo has absolutely no reason to even acknowledge us, apart from he saw my kids excitement and shirts. I assure you it was a genuine gesture that my kids will never forget or tire of telling others.
Half the ........ about Lorenzo has been invented by pro VR press, tv media and fans who are sore he and Stoner stopped VR’s run of titles.

I have a close friend who has had similar experiences with Jorge more than once. Him and his wife as a result are huge fans and wish the wider fan base could see more of "the real him".

However my friend, his wife and I all agree that Jorge does himself no favours. His frequent cringeworthy attempts to ingratiate himself with the public are what has caused his lack of mainstream fandom, not the biased media. He, like others in many walks of life, was too keen to create an image that isn't real and his attempts to do so have always been transparent. Jorge never understood that Rossi isn't the blueprint for popularity, just one method of gaining it, and imitating him was just never going to work.

I've really warmed to him in recent years as he had become more comfortable in himself, and as a result shown that he has a certain nobility of character that is actually quite rare. In his formative years this came across as arrogance but in reality he has grown into what now seems to have been maturity disguised as self importance.

AJV80 · Aug 13, 2019

Keshav said:
I've never said Lorenzo wasn't talented. That's not the issue. Never was. How he treats fans may or may not be an indication of his true nature. Most celebs are well versed in the art of virtue signalling and politesse, which is not a thing that concerns me. It's how they act on the track that concerns me. I've said before, many times, I'm happy to be proved wrong on stuff like this. As regards the relationship between Gigi and Dovi - we can speculate endlessly, but I'm really not big on gossip. Which is not to say I wouldn't love to be a fly on the wall with those two in the motorhome. Gigi's apparent preference for Lorenzo could be based on any number of personal predilections.

Is there any truth to the Dovi/Gigi rumour? Most rumours even if wrong have some sliver of truth behind them but Im honestly not sure on this one, there are so many going around at the moment I'm genuinely unsure and unshocked. The 'amicable to the observer but underlying tension' media portrait of the situation can be hard to spot when not so obvious and not looking for it.

Gaz · Aug 14, 2019

MdubSTYLIE said:
Good to see you have let things go. You should learn from the new bread of motogp riders and give up.

Dubs, good to see ya man but shame that the comment you referenced is what it took to bring you back as for me, the opinions of many who have left this place are sadly missed. It is not what it once was.

yamfan said:
To be honest kesh, you keep making references to Lorenzo’s personality and taking digs that are ill founded to say the least.
Having met the man away from the track, he came across as friendly, funny and generous.
We were on holiday in a restaurant when he came in with his friends for coffee. Upon noticing my kids looking at him, he excused himself from his friends and came over and asked if he could sit with us. He chatted for quite a while, signing the kids #99 caps and shirts, then upon leaving had the waitress bring my kids two huge ice cream sundaes on his tab.
I get it he can be spiky at the track but that’s work for him, also to my knowledge he’s never expected a team mate to help him to win a title, something that can’t be said for Dovi this year. I’m disappointed with Dovi and thought he had more honour than to expect Petrux assist his title quest.
As for Lorenzo leaving Ducati, he didn’t leave without serious worry and regret, he was (rightly so) castigated for poor performance and as good as told he was out after Le Mans. His call to HRC was an act of pretty much desperation to ensure he had a ride for 2019.
Dovi didn’t want him in the team and no doubt had talks (as #1 rider would) with Ducati management to install Petrux as #2 and a willing assistant in the 2019 title quest.
I realise you’re intending your digs as dark humour, but sometimes you’re coming over as a bit of a hater. Something we on this forum have always disliked about a certain element of VR fans.
Please don’t see this as any form of attack on you or your opinions, I’m just telling you an alternative view and my personal experience of Lorenzo.

ratdeal said:
I have a close friend who has had similar experiences with Jorge more than once. Him and his wife as a result are huge fans and wish the wider fan base could see more of "the real him".

However my friend, his wife and I all agree that Jorge does himself no favours. His frequent cringeworthy attempts to ingratiate himself with the public are what has caused his lack of mainstream fandom, not the biased media. He, like others in many walks of life, was too keen to create an image that isn't real and his attempts to do so have always been transparent. Jorge never understood that Rossi isn't the blueprint for popularity, just one method of gaining it, and imitating him was just never going to work.

I've really warmed to him in recent years as he had become more comfortable in himself, and as a result shown that he has a certain nobility of character that is actually quite rare. In his formative years this came across as arrogance but in reality he has grown into what now seems to have been maturity disguised as self importance.

Let me third this.

I have a pretty good friend who has paddock access at many Australian events including MotoGP, WSBK and the PI Classic as he is an avid enthusiast and has been involved in the local racing scene for 50 or so years.

He openly admits that he has good relationship with many riders via Facebook, phones and other manner of communication, so feel free to take his opinion as worthless.

But, he relays many stories of Jorge and his genuine personality, including having Jorge seek him out to take him into the Ducati garage a few years back at PI practice after they had met years before (via media) and on Jorge seeing my mate walking around the public area.

Point is, I hear way more good stories of Jorge's public dealings than I do of most other riders (admittedly I do not hear heaps of stories, just some) and every person I have met who has met him or had dealings all speak very highly of his genuine interest in their conversation and the approachable manner

MdubSTYLIE · Aug 14, 2019

Gaz said:
Dubs, good to see ya man but shame that the comment you referenced is what it took to bring you back as for me, the opinions of many who have left this place are sadly missed. It is not what it once was.

Good to see you still around brotha. I came back just to check the latest about the .... going down. First thing I see is oil mentioning water. I don't think I can come back here again until motogp brings back cigarettes, whiskey, and big ... ........

Keshav · Aug 14, 2019

yamfan said:
You say well versed in virtue signaling and politesse buddy, that’s all well in the public eye and in front of tv cameras and the press.
My family of four, the restaurant owner and a waitress, plus Lorenzo and five friends were the only ones in this small Spanish restaurant.
It was around 6 years ago.
Lorenzo has absolutely no reason to even acknowledge us, apart from he saw my kids excitement and shirts. I assure you it was a genuine gesture that my kids will never forget or tire of telling others.
Half the ........ about Lorenzo has been invented by pro VR press, tv media and fans who are sore he and Stoner stopped VR’s run of titles. To this day some still hate them, including some of my friends who freely admit this fact, oh and Marquez too[emoji1]
Gigi’s preference for Lorenzo stems back to the working together during his 250 days with Aprilia, where together they developed the bike to a regular championship winning machine. It’s said Gigi rates Lorenzo immensely as a development rider who’s feedback is totally accurate.
Who knows, others may differ big time...

This is interesting too [emoji1]

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/...anagement-disaster-could-cost-it-motogp-glory

Re: Ducati ....... around Miller; not surprising. Corporate .........s are by definition all about the bottom line, and when things are done by committee all the worse as there's not a singular mindset as to what will be beneficial. Ethically - they should honor their agreement with Miller, but practically - Lorenzo might be the way to go, especially if it keeps Gigi's creative juices flowing. I totally feel for Miller.

Re: the whole Lorenzo is a nice guy thing, I don't claim by way of watching him in interviews to have deep insight into his entire being. So I'm willing to give credence to the possibility that he's more well rounded than he appears. I fight back cynicism but try to maintain a reasonable degree of skepticism. I toured with a very famous singer for 12 years who the general public believe to be a genuine saint, who is in private life quite narcissistic and a serial womanizer, who even managed to get his ... in trouble with the FBI for his part in a money laundering scheme. He too was great with other people's kids and put on a great show of being Mr. Nice Guy because it bolstered his public image. I've seen this dynamic repeatedly with clients in the music business over the years so I take this kind of stuff with a grain of salt.

320Dave · Aug 14, 2019

I go un-noticed but was around here back in the day.

Gotta admit there was a bunch of snobs who thought this was there private play field and were in their entitlement to talk down on the newer members....who didn't like Rossi.

Really sucked to be honest.

Especially this one guy who i can't remember the name.

Said he had a......... wagon?

I do remember reading Jumkies essays though, that was nice.

Keshav · Aug 14, 2019

320Dave said:
Lol you hate this guy more than Pigs loves Rossi.

I know he's a .... and has always been one but Stoner liked him so I kinda give him the benefit of the doubt because of that.

Remember in 2011 when he chopped a finger off and the only guy to visit him at the clinic was Stoner?

Must have something to get ANY sympathy out of Casey right?

Not to be just on contradiction auto-pilot, but that may say a lot more about Stoner than it does about Lorenzo. I always thought of Stoner as the nicest guy in the paddock. I'd like to think of myself as the guy who would reach out to even my worst enemy when they're laid low; so I can very much relate to that kind of humanistic impulse.

Who knows Lorenzo better than his fellow racers? There must be some reason why nobody else reached out to him in that traumatic time.

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