'Legend' Stoner ends MotoGP career on the podium

BJ.C said:

Nope, i like his personality. It's like mine

IMO, in motor racing, it is.



There have been so many superlatives over the years in motorsport, to achieve legendary status now requires a commitment as well as some numbers. Stoner gave us some superlative rides and some numbers to ponder in awe, but, IMO he failed to achieve legendary status by leaving when he got the best ride in the paddock and the chance was there to cement his superiority.



In my mind the question will always be there - Lorenzo and Rossi on factory Yamaha's, was Stoner really better? He left before I could find out.

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I am with gaz. I wouldn't classify quite a few riders on the official legends list as legends, and I think the whole concept of an official legends list is nonsensical a priori in any case.

mario27 said:

hey guys !

one quick question

Is this photo real ? Is the front wheel at the air ? Or he powerslides and do whelie at the same time ?

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Not so sure on this pic, looks like Lukey Heights.



Alot of the riders manage to slide through corners under power where the front will loft a bit; I particularly remember seeing Casey go through turn three at PI with the front wheel skipping the kerb. Looks amazing on the super SloMo

Bsnell said:

Yes but you did respond

I ain't fishin for ...., not off an online forum thats for sure, but your obsessions with trying to convince strangers to your thinking makes me chuckle. Again, touched a nerve did I? Do you have kids? Let me know if you do, I'll come and call them ..... and slap them around a bit until they cry...I'll bet you my entire family's wealth you wouldnt be calling them a whiny kid........

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Enough about peoples children. Have respect.

One guy ruined the sport. One rider ...... it. All by himself.

Go mDUB!

Bsnell said:

Again, touched a nerve did I? Do you have kids? Let me know if you do, I'll come and call them ..... and slap them around a bit until they cry...I'll bet you my entire family's wealth you wouldnt be calling them a whiny kid........

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....... hell. Conflating ignoring some kids with abusing and belting them. Moronic.



But I do like lectures on Stoner's work ethic by a bragging silver spooner. Carry on, Cashman.

Gaz said:

Dub, FWIW probably one of your better posts of late (not that it means much being said from me) but a good commentary of what you see and why.



IMO, I disagree with much of it in the veracity as at times I do recall Stoner making suggestions but getting 'ignored' or at times when he was 'ridiculed' by fans and media for comments (some on tyres, some on safety). Again I do believe that he made a great number of attempts to get his valid (emphasis on valid as some of his issues are not valid) points across but he failed in his delivery and demeanour and thus could not articlulate in the manner that other riders could, and thus whilst he feels ignored he may well not have been understood rather than ignored.



One thing that I will agree with is that he cares little about todays MGP and therein (again, my opinion only) lay the issue as he harkers for the old days and does not realise that (refuses to acknowledge perhaps) that the sport is changing and he has/had a role to play.



Stoner is a pigheaded person and that is (I feel) his greatest downfall as it polarises many people and whilst many do not understand it, the attitude is far more common in this country than perhaps it is elsewhere.

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Thanks gaz... I think. lol Always appreciate your opinion.

michaelm said:

You don't like him, we get that. It is an opinion to which you are entirely entitled.



Don't pretend you would have liked him if only he had been different though. Stoner himself has said he became disillusioned with the sport when his illness in 2009 occasioned such joy among fans of your ilk (and you in particular iirc), and much of the paddock bought into the common wisdom of mental destruction, including the upper echelons of ducati and marlboro man who sought to replace him. I believe replacing him didn't work out so well.

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i used to feel the same way about you too M. Dude, as one of the worlds biggest potheads, it took a lot for me to start to not like him. And there you go bringing up Rossi again.

michaelm said:

You didn't say that stoner showed no ability to develop the ducati, you said he developed it in an adverse fashion and that a certain other rider would show up his deficiencies in this regard rapidly. On that topic, he must have developed the honda well this year because it was a lot better at the end of the year than it was at the start. His development of the ducati is not the only thing you were wrong about btw, you were completely wrong about him only winning on it because it gave him an advantage and that his loses on it were due to his lack of judgement and lack of mental strength.



The ferrousity is strong in you. A rider develops whatever attitude he may have because an element among fandom of which you are a good example hate him for no good reason and seek to discredit him at every turn, and he is supposed to apologise to you for your hatred of him? Having for years called him a one hit wonder who won only by a massive bike advantage you now contend he is squandering his talent and disrespecting fans such as you? Give me a break.

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.... it I'll bite. Yes I did say he regresses the development of motorcycles. And I stand by that statement. Ducati, won on it his first year and then regressed. The honda did not get better, it still has the same chatter problem it had from testing. The bike only got better after he announced his retirement and further during his injury. But really who's to say the bike was better, as the only person to race against it was in cruise control. Is the bike better than last years? Nope.

Keshav said:

What a load of ...... Who the .... races from early teens to late 20s living in a camper

risking their parents every penny to make it from race to race, endures years on the road

without having a real home to live in, endless bouts of jet lag and ...... food on the road,

not to mention enduring endless injuries and constantly putting their life at risk ................without having ambition?

This is just sour grapes from you because he doesn't live up to your high standards. What a joke. Do you even

know the meaning of the word?

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Please a .... ton of riders have done that. And if my standards are high because I dont think life is about, getting whats yours and giving nothing back to those who have given to you.Than yeah I guess I do. Poor, poor jetlagged Casey Stoner. Whaaaaaaaaa!

MdubSTYLIE said:

i used to feel the same way about you too M. Dude, as one of the worlds biggest potheads, it took a lot for me to start to not like him. And there you go bringing up Rossi again.







.... it I'll bite. Yes I did say he regresses the development of motorcycles. And I stand by that statement. Ducati, won on it his first year and then regressed. The honda did not get better, it still has the same chatter problem it had from testing. The bike only got better after he announced his retirement and further during his injury. But really who's to say the bike was better, as the only person to race against it was in cruise control. Is the bike better than last years? Nope.

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I actually don't think the improvement of the 2012 honda had much to do with stoner or pedrosa, but the argument is the same as saying the ducati regressed because of stoner. And I think rossi is unquestionably both a great rider, probably the greatest, and a great developer, who through the only error in judgement in his career ended up on a bike that was unrideable and undevelopable.



If you are going to engage in a little casual trolling, a word to the good, your tactical position is rather weak if you are going to get more upset by the replies than your targets are by your posts in the first place. As I have said, you are perfectly at liberty to dislike stoner's personality or his behaviour as you wish, but your largely spurious and usually post hoc justifications for your dislike when they concern his performance as a rider, and this latest rather humorous recourse to the squandering of talent argument after years of contention about the non-existence of such talent, are what I object to and enjoy rebutting. Rossi's record on the ducati is completely relevant in any such debate since what happened when he went to ducati is what disproves most of your previous contentions.



I actually agree stoner would have done better to just say he had lost the passion, that he wanted to spend time with his family and new daughter in particular or whatever and walk away, but I don't think he owes the element among the fans who were a major contributor to his disillusionment with the sport anything, and find it amusing that you guys think he does.

michaelm said:

I actually don't think the improvement of the 2012 honda had much to do with stoner or pedrosa, but the argument is the same as saying the ducati regressed because of stoner. And I think rossi is unquestionably both a great rider, probably the greatest, and a great developer, who through the only error in judgement in his career ended up on a bike that was unrideable and undevelopable.



If you are going to engage in a little casual trolling, a word to the good, your tactical position is rather weak if you are going to get more upset by the replies than your targets are by your posts in the first place. As I have said, you are perfectly at liberty to dislike stoner's personality or his behaviour as you wish, but your largely spurious and usually post hoc justifications for your dislike when they concern his performance as a rider, and this latest rather humorous recourse to the squandering of talent argument after years of contention about the non-existence of such talent, are what I object to and enjoy rebutting. Rossi's record on the ducati is completely relevant in any such debate since what happened when he went to ducati is what disproves most of your previous contentions.



I actually agree stoner would have done better to just say he had lost the passion, that he wanted to spend time with his family and new daughter in particular or whatever and walk away, but I don't think he owes the element among the fans who were a major contributor to his disillusionment with the sport anything, and find it amusing that you guys thnk he does.

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Me trolling? You fished me into the same old argument we always have. I stated my opinion on the topic of this thread. And you trolled me into the mother ....... development argument again.



Why dont you ask me what I think of Rossi and how well he developed the ducati? Thanks for asking. He and Burgess failed miserably worse than Stoner and whoever. Why what would make you say that? .... look now farther than Haydens declining results for proof of that! Yea I used a name other than Rossi and Stoner. Did I blow your mind? Or does that make my whole point irrelevant?



Troll me into this and call me a troll. Please.

Y'all have a nice winter, I'll see you in February!

barbedwirebiker said:

Enough about peoples children. Have respect.

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I do, I don't make kids cry!!!

Dr No said:

....... hell. Conflating ignoring some kids with abusing and belting them. Moronic.



But I do like lectures on Stoner's work ethic by a bragging silver spooner. Carry on, Cashman.

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Not really, biting on my humorous fish hooks is moronic



Cash man, I like it. I would reply but I'm busy this weekend giving something back, you know, something he doesn't. I sponsor a good kid at the local mx track and even got him a new bike for next year as his parents couldn't afford it so I'm off to watch him test it and give some help. So I'll leave you to fantasise over a stoner 3 way

MdubSTYLIE said:

Me trolling? You fished me into the same old argument we always have. I stated my opinion on the topic of this thread. And you trolled me into the mother ....... development argument again.



Why dont you ask me what I think of Rossi and how well he developed the ducati? Thanks for asking. He and Burgess failed miserably worse than Stoner and whoever. Why what would make you say that? .... look now farther than Haydens declining results for proof of that! Yea I used a name other than Rossi and Stoner. Did I blow your mind? Or does that make my whole point irrelevant?



Troll me into this and call me a troll. Please.

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i have not said stoner is a legend and have repeatedly said the whole idea of having an official list of riders who are legends is a nonsense. I replied to you when you got into your even more nonsensical "squandering of talent" line of argument, which I find hypocritical from someone who denied the existence of such talent in the first place as you indicated by regurgitating your old "one hit wonder" line in the post (interesting arithmetic as others have pointed out) and the "he owes the fans" line of argument, given that you were among the most gleeful and dismissive of him during his travails in 2009.



Again, his now concluded career pales against rossi's, and jorge has the best recent record of all three given he has 2 championships in 5 years against 2 out of 6 years by the other two. Even leaving aside stoner's equipment, injuries and illness which I have no problem doing 2 out of 6 world championships when 2 of the other 4 were won by the greatest rider ever, and the other 2 by the only guy likely to challenge valentino's record, is hardly being a one hit wonder even it was arithmetically possible to be a one hit wonder twice.

Bsnell said:

Not really, biting on my humorous fish hooks is moronic

Cash man, I like it. I would reply but I'm busy this weekend giving something back, you know, something he doesn't. I sponsor a good kid at the local mx track and even got him a new bike for next year as his parents couldn't afford it so I'm off to watch him test it and give some help.

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I am pleased for you that you find yourself humorous.



Stoner is actually well known for sponsoring young australian riders starting when he won his first championship. I guess he has been remiss for not (as far as I know) sponsoring young english riders as well. He reputedly has offered chaz davies, who seems to regard him highly, moral support and encouragement at least. .

Bsnell said:

Not really, biting on my humorous fish hooks is moronic

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Sorry ............ you think kids are open game 'cause yer on da net YOU ARE WRONG.



Do you have kids? Let me know if you do, I'll come and call them ..... and slap them around a bit until they cry



I hope I see you in the flesh one day. I will boot .... you, ...., then let my wife slap you around 'til you cry just for fun.



Damn, first ....... I'm gonna "ignore"... Friends PM me if he says he's attending any Gps next year!

Agree with MD totally, stupid post.



Mick, how do you "boot ...." someone, just in case I have to do it one day.



So you threatened to attend Kesh's house and assault his children. Poor form.

michaelm said:

i have not said stoner is a legend and have repeatedly said the whole idea of having an official list of riders who are legends is a nonsense. I replied to you when you got into your even more nonsensical "squandering of talent" line of argument, which I find hypocritical from someone who denied the existence of such talent in the first place as you indicated by regurgitating your old "one hit wonder" line in the post (interesting arithmetic as others have pointed out) and the "he owes the fans" line of argument, given that you were among the most gleeful and dismissive of him during his travails in 2009.



Again, his now concluded career pales against rossi's, and jorge has the best recent record of all three given he has 2 championships in 5 years against 2 out of 6 years by the other two. Even leaving aside stoner's equipment, injuries and illness which I have no problem doing 2 out of 6 world championships when 2 of the other 4 were won by the greatest rider ever, and the other 2 by the only guy likely to challenge valentino's record, is hardly being a one hit wonder even it was arithmetically possible to be a one hit wonder twice.

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i never said he was talentless, never. I have said a lot of things but never that. The first time I have ever said "one hit wonder" was two days ago. And I said that because of his lack of ambition not talent. I also never said he owes his fans. I said he owed everyone that is part of motogp from the guy who drives trucks for dorna, the media to RDP's shoulder. Be he chose to use his clout to piss moan and be negative. I will repeat, a riders job is not done until he retires. He is done now, and this is his legacy and that is that. Real fast, very talented, but an underachiever.

MdubSTYLIE said:

i never said he was talentless, never. I have said a lot of things but never that. The first time I have ever said "one hit wonder" was two days ago. And I said that because of his lack of ambition not talent. I also never said he owes his fans. I said he owed everyone that is part of motogp from the guy who drives trucks for dorna, the media to RDP's shoulder. Be he chose to use his clout to piss moan and be negative. I will repeat, a riders job is not done until he retires. He is done now, and this is his legacy and that is that. Real fast, very talented, but an underachiever.

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What you did say was that his failure to win further titles on the ducati, his problems in 2009, and his crashes on the 2010 ducati (a bike he did not develop and which was not developed for him btw) were all due to mental weakness and lack of application. What has emerged since by the testimony of anyone who has ever ridden or had anything to do with an 800 ducati is that what he did on that bike was close to miraculous.



I think j4rno, someone who truly appreciates both rossi and stoner, put it best, in saying that stoner's riding style was never going to allow a long career one way or another. And if sharing the championships equally with valentino rossi and jorge lorenzo during the 6 years he was on a factory bike is underachieving, then we all need to start smoking dope as it seems likely no-one can meet your standards.



Many of the things he has supposedly moaned about have proven to be absolutely correct, including the unsafe nature of the indy track surface (unfortunately for him), the risk of high closing speeds during practice, and the potential durability problems of this year's tyre under race conditions. Any pissing and moaning done by him was preceded by vastly more directed at him. He would have been a bigger man if he had risen above it, but also a rare one, and I would be interested to know of examples of athletes who have taken similar abuse with equanimity.

michaelm said:

What you did say was that his failure to win further titles on the ducati, his problems in 2009, and his crashes on the 2010 ducati (a bike he did not develop and which was not developed for him btw) were all due to mental weakness and lack of application. What has emerged since by the testimony of anyone who has ever ridden or had anything to do with an 800 ducati is that what he did on that bike was close to miraculous.

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Correct mental weakness not his talent. He rode the wheels off the ducati and then less and less each season, as his ambition to ride the duc became less and less. And then he switched to honda and Rode it hard year one and lost all ambition to ride whats so ever after that.

michaelm said:

I think j4rno, someone who truly appreciates both rossi and stoner, put it best, in saying that stoner's riding style was never going to allow a long career one way or another. And if sharing the championships equally with valentino rossi and jorge lorenzo during the 6 years he was on a factory bike is underachieving, then we all need to start smoking dope as it seems likely no-one can meet your standards.

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If smoking dope is what it will take for you to have standards at all than by all means do it. His biggest under achievements were off the track not on. He did nothing but complain. Dude just read what I have already wrote about that. We are going in circles. Although if he was so much better than them and he ended with the same amount of titles during that time period as Vale and Jorge, hen yes that would be an example of under achieving.

michaelm said:

Many of the things he has supposedly moaned about have proven to be absolutely correct, including the unsafe nature of the indy track surface unfortunately for him, the risk of high closing speeds during practice, and the potential durability problems of this year's tyre under race conditions. Any pissing and moaning done by him was preceded by vastly more directed at him; it would have made him a very big man to rise above it, but he shouldn't have been subjected to it in the first place.

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This is stuff every rider through out history has to deal with. Bad surfaces, .... tires, closing speeds in practice are all a part of racing. Punching people, acting as if he has superior right to the track, acting as if every question ever asked by the media was just miserable is not. He didnt get payed millions to act like a ..... Athletes must do things they dont want to sometimes, and put on a smile when they dont want to. Thats the same with practically any job. You cant go around work being a big old .... all the time or you'll get canned. I understand that this is the part of being a sport icon that he didnt want to deal with. And so he retired. We cant all be Colin Edwards and open up race schools I understand that. But a little love to the thing that help make him 20-30 mil to retire on isn't asking to much. Now excuse me I have to go run a clinic to get the youth ready for their national championships next weekend. To a sport that gave me so much mentally and spiritually but not so much financially.



Can we just bro hug and agree to disagree?