'Legend' Stoner ends MotoGP career on the podium

Oh boy, I see the kiddies all got their panties in a twist, i'm gonna have fun here...

BarryMachine said:

oh the ironing .......



are you fixing the coffee machines as well?

Click to expand...

I take it you mean irony? No, I don't work, my family is loaded and so I don't have to work thankfully. The irony is that my parents have more wealth than your adored Mr Stoner

michaelm said:

It is his life ffs, he can do what he wants with it. I would hardly call 2 premier class world championships and 38 premier class wins, the 4th most of all time, 23 of them on a ducati who have about 7 gp wins otherwise a squandering of talent. Interesting that many of the people (not necessarily including you) who complained about him retiring are the same ones who proclaimed him a one hit wonder who won by massive bike advantage and was subsequently mentally broken by valentino the magnificent. It is also a strange phenomenon that his actual fans are almost universally happy with what he has achieved and for him to retire if that is his wish, while his detractors are complaining about him doing so; as I have always said, moaning about him has always vastly exceeded any moaning that he may have engaged in himself. As I have also argued previously he may have made a mature decision and decided that having proven his detractors wrong continuing to do so was insufficient motivation. I think the kid probably had something to do with it as well, whatever he says.

Click to expand...

I agree, and if you read back I have not complained about him retiring. Its his life and his decision and I admire him for it in fact. What I do have a problem with is his attitude, especially towards fans (epecially in the UK where her tars everyone with the same brush - a raging Rossi fan and a Stoner hater). Like it or not, in the profession he chose he had a corporate responsibility to his fans and the people who pay his wages.

Jumkie said:

We have often heard great atheletes say, when they lose the desire they will quit the game. Usually said in respect for the game and the fans, as they see it, deserve complete commitment. Casey how now made good on his promise to leave, given he has lost his desire. He won his penultimate race and podium in his last after a visit to the pit (in .... conditions no less). Not sure I'd qualify this as "wasting talent", as while he was in the game, it was rather undeniable, he was trying. If wasting talent is the "worst" thing in the world, then what do we call somebody who by most fan & expert accounts was considered the Greatest Of All Time; yet appeared to be circulating with no ambition, no desire, and at very least not honoring the terms of a good faith contract that in exchange for wages one will give all his effort?

Click to expand...

Totally agree Mr Essay Poster ( ), however I don't think he wasted his talent. Talent brings responsibility at that level like it or not.

Gaz said:

TBH I haven't heard that one but have heard a number of variations including 'an unfulfilled talent is wasted', but then I would not call Stoner an unfulfilled talent as he has achieved what HE set out to do and wanted. Just because he may not have continued and achieved what YOU wanted him to achieve (or attempt to achieve or fail at trying to achieve) does not mean that he has wasted talent.



IMO it is far worse to have continued along in a career where you talent has waned to such a degree that you have instead become a hindrance or hazard and in the end are forced into retirement because nobody wants you or your once past great skills.



Is horses for courses I suggest and what you may see as unfulfilled some (myself included) will see as fulfilled if he is happy with his achievements and results, which dare I say he is.

Click to expand...

Again you missed my point, I fully accept and compliment the guy on leaving when he wanted to rather than carrying on without the motivation, but his attitude still stunk for someone who was looked up to by millions and thus is an example.

Keshav said:

A. Not all sayings are necessarily profound.

B. Stoner raced successfully and won races from the age of 14 till now. Who is anyone here to say his time has been wasted?



What fabulous achievements have you accomplished that put you in a position to judge his? What is it with

fans that think they own the athletes they follow? The only people to whom Stoner is beholden are his parents who sacrificed everything so he could succeed. If they're happy - .... the whining "fans". The fans got their money's worth.



C. He ain't complaining anymore. He set his goals, met them and now is enjoying the fruits of his labors. Your whining is about your envy and nothing more. Some people think athletes should be like gladiators and continue to fight until they get killed in battle. What ......... Who cares if Stoner doesn't meet your standards and expectations? It's like listening to fleas living in an elephant's crack and complaining about lack of amenities.

Click to expand...

Touched a nerv did I Keshav? Well its clear to me you wanna suck him off already! Where did I say about Stoner meeting my standards and expectations? By your own argument who are you to tell me what I can do and how I can feel? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black I don't give a .... what the guy does in his career, what I do give a .... about is seeing two young kids in the paddock waiting to see their hero for nearly an hour but the pit garage, banners and all, and he rides right past them on his moped because he considers every UK fan a Rossi loving prick.I was a stoner fan up until I saw that because for all his whinging he didn't give a .... about non Aussie fans and despite his blantant disregard for authority/corporate sponsors/whatever you want to call it, he still took the money.



And as I said before, the guy can ride better than I but I don't envy him at all, I haven't worked propoerly since 2008 because I don't need to (because i'm loaded), and i'm only 30! I've achieved plenty thanks, but nothing i wish to share with a creep

Bsnell said:

I agree, and if you read back I have not complained about him retiring. Its his life and his decision and I admire him for it in fact. What I do have a problem with is his attitude, especially towards fans (epecially in the UK where her tars everyone with the same brush - a raging Rossi fan and a Stoner hater). Like it or not, in the profession he chose he had a corporate responsibility to his fans and the people who pay his wages.

Click to expand...

Yours and mdubstylie's posts were conflated, including by me, but I couldn't be bothered replying separately.



I acknowledge that it would have been more gracious, and perhaps more internally consistent , not to criticise the sport when he announced his retirement, he could at least have waited till he actually retired or even just said he didn't want to do it any more and left it at that. I understand his attitude though, and what produced it, and the fact that it further pissed off his detractors was a source of some pleasure.



How much money he has, or how much you or your parents have for that matter, is rather irrelevant I would have thought, as long as he, you and they are happy with what you have. Honda and mr nakomoto seemed rather happy to keep paying his wages btw and were prepared to do so at a rather higher rate, despite his apparent lack of corporate responsibility; I rather get the impression that honda in general, and mr nakomoto in particular, were rather impressed they couldn't buy him at virtually any price. Perhaps it was considered bushido or whatever. And why should he feel any responsibility to fans who hate him for beating valentino rossi and for failing to acknowledge that this was not due to any talent or effort of his, which is basically what it all came down to, and would have hated him whatever he did, including wearing a certain T-shirt when he won his first title, and moreover gleefully gloated when he was "mentally broken" in their estimation by the aforementioned valentino in 2009? .

Well thankfully we live in a world where you are entitled to your opinion...

Bsnell said:

Again you missed my point, I fully accept and compliment the guy on leaving when he wanted to rather than carrying on without the motivation, but his attitude still stunk for someone who was looked up to by millions and thus is an example.

Click to expand...

And who are you to determine that his attitude stank for the 'millions that looked up to him'?



His attitude may well have stank to you, and a number of others but dare I say that you do not speak for the millions that you may claim as for every one person I know (admittedly mainly Aussies) who feel that Stoner needs attitude alignment therapy, there is also another who enjoys him just as he is.



Me, I have no issues with his attitude as he is not trying to be something that he cannot, but rather is trying to be as he chooses. IMO in todays world the fan often expects far more than is their right of athletes as we do not own them, nor do they owe us or the sport as the sport is the individual's chosen profession afterall and sport at that level is a business.



Yes, there are some athletes who 'play the game' brilliantly and develop a brand (Rossi being a genius example), but for every one Rossi there are many who choose alternate paths and do not wish to create that brand that may well be something to which they cannot remain aligned or true



Stoner is not (in public at least) a witty amenable funny nor funloving personality such as is Rossi, but he is also not a 'fake' personality driven by media demands and for that I applaud him just as I applaud that which others bring to the table



As for being an example, all athletes have flaws and unfortunately many of these flaws are played out in the public eye far greater than perhaps they should have been. What you see as moaning many see as frankness (after all, a number of riders carry a similar message but with differing delivery), what you see as disrespect for fellow competitors some see as 'mid games', what you see as weakness some see as strengths.



For mine, Stoner is and was a flawed genius with an innate ability to polarise thought and opinion for a great number of reasons, some legitimate, some exagerated, and yet many that were found to have had solid grounds of factual basis, and dare I suggest that many of his complaints will bear fruit in years ahead. Love him, like him or loathe him he is a talent that has left the sport for his own reasons and yet in a number of areas people bemoan his choice whilst saying good riddance.

Hahaha, Wound the Aussies up I see. You sir just confirmed your sterotype





Who am I? I am someone with as much right on my views as you are, so stop preaching your opinion down on my like fact. I worked in the paddock for 2 years so have more first hand accounts with the riders than you have with your right hand

Bsnell said:

Hahaha, Wound the Aussies up I see. You sir just confirmed your sterotype

Who am I? I am someone with as much right on my views as you are, so stop preaching your opinion down on my like fact. I worked in the paddock for 2 years so have more first hand accounts with the riders than you have with your right hand

Click to expand...

Really, looks more to me as though it is you who is wound up and pushing your opinion as fact



And I may not have worked in the paddock but I have a level of experience in and around WSBK and MGP as well as many race level of different disciplines, and count as friends a number of riders and officials with experience ranging from MGP down to the average joe club.



And by the way, I have never said you are not entitled to your views, but you seem to allude that I am not entitled to mine now does it seem that I can debate as 'you have so much experience'



FWIW, and we can argue all day/night long, your opinion of Stoner and your experiences in the 'paddock' carry as much weight as my opinions and experience .................... none







Edit. Now, if you want to wind me up go questioning Doohan or Rainey

Bsnell said:

I worked in the paddock for 2 years so have more first hand accounts with the riders than you have with your right hand

Click to expand...

Excellent - how fascinating..great addition to the forum. Who did you work for and in what capacity?

Bsnell said:

Hahaha, Wound the Aussies up I see. You sir just confirmed your sterotype

Who am I? I am someone with as much right on my views as you are, so stop preaching your opinion down on my like fact. I worked in the paddock for 2 years so have more first hand accounts with the riders than you have with your right hand

Click to expand...

If you send a turkey to the andromeda galaxy, what you are likely to end up with is a turkey who has been to the andromeda galaxy.

Gaz said:

Really, looks more to me as though it is you who is wound up and pushing your opinion as fact



And I may not have worked in the paddock but I have a level of experience in and around WSBK and MGP as well as many race level of different disciplines, and count as friends a number of riders and officials with experience ranging from MGP down to the average joe club.



And by the way, I have never said you are not entitled to your views, but you seem to allude that I am not entitled to mine now does it seem that I can debate as 'you have so much experience'



FWIW, and we can argue all day/night long, your opinion of Stoner and your experiences in the 'paddock' carry as much weight as my opinions and experience .................... none







Edit. Now, if you want to wind me up go questioning Doohan or Rainey

Click to expand...

Haha, this is so funny. I never pushed my opinion as fact, I merely stated my opinion given my experiences. What I do see on here is religious fanatic levels of debate about Stoner and Rossi. Throw the words "Rossi/Stoner is ....... than Stoner/Rossi" in here and watch the .... kick off, its hilarious

Of course you're entitled to your view, just because it doesnt agree with mine doesnt mean its wrong. So there, whats the argumentative comeback on that?

Arrabbiata1 said:

Excellent - how fascinating..great addition to the forum. Who did you work for and in what capacity?

Click to expand...

Hi mate. I got into it through James Ellison. Worked as one of his meccy's at WCM then moved across with him to Tech 3 in 06, I stayed for another season after he left as I got to live near the base in Fance for a while but then left at the end of 07

michaelm said:

If you send a turkey to the andromeda galaxy, what you end up with is a turkey who has been to the andromeda galaxy.

Click to expand...

No, thats Santa Claus!

Stoner kicked .... And he kicked ... on his terms without lowering himself by being a fake, egotistical, market driven, politically correct, kiss-blowing circus clown. Good on him, I say. Who gives a .... if he didn't feel like signing autographs. Who gives a toss if he didn't get primed or coached as what to say before giving interviews or press conferences. Who cares that he didn't perform gimmicky post race celebrations. Right or wrong, he said what he wanted. He raced the way he wanted. And on the track, he gave his best and achieved results with the machinery he had available - that's how he repaid his employers - as opposed to posing for a zillion photo shoots in between lumbering around the track in 7th and asking for a million bucks a race while bitching about the machinery they provided him at the same time. People say that Stoner is a quitter. It aint him who is the quitter...



This may be one of the last threads we see on Stoner. He has now retired, and at the top of his game. But some still feel the need to put the boot into him. It is little wonder he wants out. Why would he feel like going out on track each week, risking his life for a bunch of hate mongering, yellow thong wearing morons who worship a market driven image, rather than pure racing talent?



In the near future, he will be just another guy you pass on the street - all forgotten. And i get the feeling he will be more than happy with that. Stoner was the last of the "old school". In a new world of corporate clones groomed for PR, it's a pity many don't seem to appreciate that.



I, for one, will miss the guy.

Yeah fair enough Mad Mick, but then I bet you wouldnt feel the same if he left your kids in tears. No? Well then prove and i'll come round and call them little .......s until they cry, but it will be ok, because you wont 'Give a ....'



Gimme a break!

Bsnell said:

Haha, this is so funny. I never pushed my opinion as fact, I merely stated my opinion given my experiences. What I do see on here is religious fanatic levels of debate about Stoner and Rossi. Throw the words "Rossi/Stoner is ....... than Stoner/Rossi" in here and watch the .... kick off, its hilarious

Of course you're entitled to your view, just because it doesnt agree with mine doesnt mean its wrong. So there, whats the argumentative comeback on that?









Hi mate. I got into it through James Ellison. Worked as one of his meccy's at WCM then moved across with him to Tech 3 in 06, I stayed for another season after he left as I got to live near the base in Fance for a while but then left at the end of 07







No, thats Santa Claus!

Click to expand...

This is a very old debate.



Rossi is obviously better than stoner in terms of a career. Stoner was still pretty good, and if many fans, particularly of the english variety, dislike him, so much the better, although again obviously they are entirely entitled to their opinion as are you.



What being in james ellison's pit, if you were, would teach you about premier class gp bike racing if you were capable of gleaning anything from the experience is rather a moot point imo; if you tell me james doesn't think stoner is a fast and talented rider I disagree with him; whether or not he likes stoner is fairly immaterial, as far as I am concerned at least, however much it might matter to you.

Its a debate i'm not interested in either. For me Rossi has the greater stats but in terms or raw speed no-one can deny the fact that Stoner is faster.



Both him and I agree on that. However if I worked for you and was good at my job but was a miserable ....... and told you you were a .... and I hated working for you all the time, don't even think of having the cheek of saying that you would continue to employ me!

Bsnell said:

Both him and I agree on that. However if I worked for you and was good at my job but was a miserable ....... and told you you were a .... and I hated working for you all the time, don't even think of having the cheek of saying that you would continue to employ me!

Click to expand...

I think he regarded himself as working for ducati, and from his public statements thought they or their sponsors anyway deserted him when he became ill despite him (miraculously in retrospect) having won their only world championship, and then for honda; he continues to give gratitude and respect to both ducati corse and hrc, unlike some others, and seems to be on good terms with both. Audi reputedly made an offer for him to re-join ducati similar to the one they made to retain valentino, and honda offered him more than they have ever offered anyone.



If you are referring to dorna I don't think he regarded himself as their employee or desired that status, rather the whole point of his retirement I would have thought. It is a (relatively) free world, but I don't have much of a problem personally with anyone disrespecting either dorna or marlboro/philip morris.

mad mick said:

Stoner kicked .... And he kicked ... on his terms without lowering himself by being a fake, egotistical, market driven, politically correct, kiss-blowing circus clown. Good on him, I say. Who gives a .... if he didn't feel like signing autographs. Who gives a toss if he didn't get primed or coached as what to say before giving interviews or press conferences. Who cares that he didn't perform gimmicky post race celebrations. Right or wrong, he said what he wanted. He raced the way he wanted. And on the track, he gave his best and achieved results with the machinery he had available - that's how he repaid his employers - as opposed to posing for a zillion photo shoots in between lumbering around the track in 7th and asking for a million bucks a race while bitching about the machinery they provided him at the same time. People say that Stoner is a quitter. It aint him who is the quitter...



This may be one of the last threads we see on Stoner. He has now retired, and at the top of his game. But some still feel the need to put the boot into him. It is little wonder he wants out. Why would he feel like going out on track each week, risking his life for a bunch of hate mongering, yellow thong wearing morons who worship a market driven image, rather than pure racing talent?



In the near future, he will be just another guy you pass on the street - all forgotten. And i get the feeling he will be more than happy with that. Stoner was the last of the "old school". In a new world of corporate clones groomed for PR, it's a pity many don't seem to appreciate that.



I, for one, will miss the guy.

Click to expand...

Do you really believe he got where he was without being egotistical & sucking corporate ....? Really?!



Well I guess they staged managed him perfectly as an Australian folk hero then.

Bsnell said:

Hi mate. I got into it through James Ellison. Worked as one of his meccy's at WCM

Click to expand...

Jesus Christ, you know real pain!

Goatboy said:

Do you really believe he got where he was without being egotistical & sucking corporate ....? Really?!



Well I guess they staged managed him perfectly as an Australian folk hero then.

Click to expand...

Dorna actually at least partially financed lcr's and his entry into the premier class because they wanted to diversify the field by the inclusion of an australian ride. I think he was pretty much on his own after that though, and him landing on the ducati was serendipitous for both him and ducati, who fairly clearly signed him on a one year contract as a stopgap till marco melandri was available.



Can't say dorna seemed overjoyed by his success though, which was of a degree unexpected even by his fans including me.



Of course he is egotistical.

Talent over ambition. Sure he won two championships, a lot of race wins. But that is all he did. He did nothing, zero, zilch for the sport that gave him everything he has. I take that back. He constantly pissed and moaned, belittled inferior riders/teams, and completely bashed motogp. This sport gave him everything including his well being and family. And what did he give back to it? Nothing. He ruined motogp. How? He choose to ..... and complain, not realizing he had all the juice(clout). These changes that have happened over the past few years are a direct result of that. He complained about everything and he complained about the solutions. Never once giving dorna, motogp, or the media any positive feed back as to what he would like to see motogp do to stay interesting. Thats not his job you say? ........! Than who's is it? Its the riders. Its the people who play the games responsibility to keep it interesting. Starting with the man at the of the totem pole. And if that man is confused ...... up doesnt care about the sport that he is part of, than the sport will fail. He is no legend, not by a long shot. He was a great rider but contributed nothing else to this sport.



A job as a professional athlete does not end when they leave the track or field. It ends when they retire.

Post-of-the-.......-year Mdub, THANK YOU for supporting what I have been trying to say...

MdubSTYLIE said:

Talent over ambition. Sure he won two championships, a lot of race wins. But that is all he did. He did nothing, zero, zilch for the sport that gave him everything he has. I take that back. He constantly pissed and moaned, belittled inferior riders/teams, and completely bashed motogp. This sport gave him everything including his well being and family. And what did he give back to it? Nothing. He ruined motogp. How? He choose to ..... and complain, not realizing he had all the juice(clout). These changes that have happened over the past few years are a direct result of that. He complained about everything and he complained about the solutions. Never once giving dorna, motogp, or the media any positive feed back as to what he would like to see motogp do to stay interesting. Thats not his job you say? ........! Than who's is it? Its the riders. Its the people who play the games responsibility to keep it interesting. Starting with the man at the of the totem pole. And if that man is confused ...... up doesnt care about the sport that he is part of, than the sport will fail. He is no legend, not by a long shot. He was a great rider but contributed nothing else to this sport.



A job as a professional athlete does not end when they leave the track or field. It ends when they retire.

Click to expand...

As I frequently say. any bitching and moaning by him is vastly exceeded and was preceded by bitching and moaning about him. So now you and others maintain he didn't fulfil his talent, as opposed to the years long refrain that he was a one hit wonder gifted a world title by a massive bike advantage who was subsequently mentally broken by your boy valentino, and that if he doesn't like the sport he should get out of it. Well he doesn't and he has, you have your wish, be happy.



Btw, why are you correct now, when everything you ever said about his performances on and development of the ducati has now been proven wrong, perhaps oddly again by your boy vale.