'Legend' Stoner ends MotoGP career on the podium

Goatboy said:

You ....... hypocrite!!

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VR deserves his record denigrated, as it was artificially enhanced exactly in the same way we will see his results next year. Its something u fail to understand. The opposite is true for Schwantz, as he competed on a Suzuki (and all that represents). Carmelo Clause hands VR ........ results next year by virtue of a seat at one of the only four winning bikes and ur still buying his padded accomplishments, that is not hypocritical, its much worse.

I love Schwantz, I count him as both hero & legend. His single solitary championship however came at Rainey's misfortune.



If one set of results is to be questioned that way, so must they all.

Goatboy said:

I love Schwantz, I count him as both hero & legend. His single solitary championship however came at Rainey's misfortune.



If one set of results is to be questioned that way, so must they all.

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I think Schwantz provides the perfect example that potentially negates the whole idea that championship wins determines worth or legend status. Even if Rainey hadn't had that tragic accident and won the title that year - therefore Schwantz missing out yet again - I personally (I'm confident many others would as well) would still consider Schwantz a racing legend simply because of the courage and heart he displayed on that bike. Maybe, numbers are meaningless.

Jumkie said:

VR deserves his record denigrated, as it was artificially enhanced exactly in the same way we will see his results next year. Its something u fail to understand. The opposite is true for Schwantz, as he competed on a Suzuki (and all that represents). Carmelo Clause hands VR ........ results next year by virtue of a seat at one of the only four winning bikes and ur still buying his padded accomplishments, that is not hypocritical, its much worse.

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"Atificially enhanced" - that's the most accurate way I have heard it put. Some peeps continually cling to the notion that "numbers don't lie". I think numbers do...

Numbers absolutely lie. Ask your government or Andy!! That's why a discussion of "legendary" status will always be a debate. MotoGP.com has 19 names on their "legends" list... I'd probably pare it down to ten, some may expand it to 40... To each his or her own opinion is fine with me!

mad mick said:

"Atificially enhanced" - that's the most accurate way I have heard it put. Some peeps continually cling to the notion that "numbers don't lie". I think numbers do...

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Yeah, like in 2006.

Because of his riding talent alone, Stoner is the m0st legendary legend in legendtown.



Stoner is the most Legendary of all time ...... pretty understandable considering that by whooping Rossi, Stoner is the GOAT as well.



Ago never had Stoners skills nor VR nor ..... dare I say it .......... Mick Doohan.

Put your .... back in your pants Barry

BarryMachine said:

Because of his riding talent alone, Stoner is the m0st legendary legend in legendtown.



Stoner is the most Legendary of all time ...... pretty understandable considering that by whooping Rossi, Stoner is the GOAT as well.



Ago never had Stoners skills nor VR nor ..... dare I say it .......... Mick Doohan.

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He is gone barry. Posterity can decide whether he is a legend, this official legends list is just showbiz anyway.



Loved the way he wrangled a bike, never saw hailwood or king kenny,or fast freddie in his heyday, did see schwantz, but these seem to be the riders of his ilk imo, although roberts and hailwood obviously were more successful over a longer period. 2 premier class championships, 1 on a ducati, and 38 wins, 23 on a ducati, is more than fine though, and sufficient for most of his fans I would have thought, and certainly sufficient for me as a fan anyway.

I consider the whole 'legend' thing a bit weird. As for Stoner, I sort of think it's a nice move by Dorna/FIM (should fall under FIM's responsibility, or what?), given that his achievements have been somewhat undervalued, maybe they thought they should compensate this by 'overvalueing' them now by branding him a legend.



As for the pro and cons, 'nuff has been said. It's irritating to name him a legend only the day he had his final race. But then, he truly put his stamp on the era he competed in. Being the most successful 800 rider, plus his 'no ........' approach towards racing in general and the machinery of Dorna/MotogGP in particular which he was very much unliked for, yet he was at least consequent enough to pull it through till the end - the negatives outweighed the positives, so he left. I do respect him for that a lot, even though I am seriously pissed that I missed the chance to see him race.



Anyways - I think the 'legend' brand should be given to a rider for outstanding talent and accomplishment, and for making an impact of historic significance, so to say. Both is true for Stoner - just as it will naturally be true for Rossi once he retires.



Although Schwantz should be a legend as well - he got his WC, and he definitely made a significant impact on an era, namely the early 1990s, which are remembered as the best days of GP racing because he was participating in it the way he did.

michaelm said:

He is gone barry. Posterity can decide whether he is a legend, this official legends list is just showbiz anyway.



Loved the way he wrangled a bike, never saw hailwood or king kenny,or fast freddie in his heyday, did see schwantz, but these seem to be the riders of his ilk imo, although roberts and hailwood obviously were more successful over a longer period. 2 premier class championships, 1 on a ducati, and 38 wins, 23 on a ducati, is more than fine though, and sufficient for most of his fans I would have thought, and certainly sufficient for me as a fan anyway.

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Rubbish! If you could not see after a few races that his riding and will, was special ...... as has been noted by a plethora of riders and paddock folk ....... then I don't get why you dare attempt to judge ones "legendability" ........ is your criteria based on some old codger who made it to his gold watch?

BarryMachine said:

Rubbish! If you could not see after a few races that his riding and will, was special ...... as has been noted by a plethora of riders and paddock folk ....... then I don't get why you dare attempt to judge ones "legendability" ........ is your criteria based on some old codger who made it to his gold watch?

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Ffs barry, I am basically agreeing with you; I am, however, indifferent to this official legends list.

Jumkie said:

VR deserves his record denigrated, as it was artificially enhanced exactly in the same way we will see his results next year. Its something u fail to understand. The opposite is true for Schwantz, as he competed on a Suzuki (and all that represents). Carmelo Clause hands VR ........ results next year by virtue of a seat at one of the only four winning bikes and ur still buying his padded accomplishments, that is not hypocritical, its much worse.

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Just wait for what is coming next from Carmelo Clause. Capirossi testing the Yamaha is a prelude to a tyre change to suit VR. There will be an experimental tyre before the start of the season. Mark my words!

michaelm said:

Ffs barry, I am basically agreeing with you; I am, however, indifferent to this official legends list.

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now do you see?

Wow Barry is touchy isn't he?? Maybe he was touched as a child....

BarryMachine said:

Rubbish! If you could not see after a few races that his riding and will, was special ...... as has been noted by a plethora of riders and paddock folk ....... then I don't get why you dare attempt to judge ones "legendability" ........ is your criteria based on some old codger who made it to his gold watch?

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Well .... lets just hand the goat status over to Murder Marc. Why let there career play out when Barry can decide after a few races? People love to mention the ambition over talent statement. Hell it was even on a tv show I watch. But there is something worse, having all the talent in the world and no ambition. Casey could/should have been a legend but he chose not to. He is the racing's epitomy of a one hit wonder.

BarryMachine said:

Because of his riding talent alone, Stoner is the m0st legendary legend in legendtown.



Stoner is the most Legendary of all time ...... pretty understandable considering that by whooping Rossi, Stoner is the GOAT as well.



Ago never had Stoners skills nor VR nor ..... dare I say it .......... Mick Doohan.

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I love you man. If I ever have children, I'll name my first born son after you.

i think barry likes stoner.

Sometimes I believe BM is the ultra-bopper, disguised as a boner on a mission to dishonor Stoner's fans.

sewarion said:

Sometimes I believe BM is the ultra-bopper, disguised as a boner on a mission to dishonor Stoner's fans.

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He certainly discredits Stoner fans, but this conspiracy is much too elaborate for such a busy man. I mean, NORAD and NASA don't run themselves you know.