Le - Mans Race Thread

[chopperman]

Anyone know of any vids the include an overhead shot of the Pedrosa/Simoncelli crash?



Thx.

Dont know if there is one. Ive seen a front view, a rear view and an on board from Dani's bike.

 

[MdubSTYLIE]

Well ahead of scheadule, the IMDS (italian missile defence system) has passed all test with flying colors. Not like the lame ... attempt the finns made a few years ago.



its a full out attack on spain and australia. Operation "get rossi points" has begun. Hide your childern and cover your ....., dont worry the women will be fine.

 

[MdubSTYLIE]

I miss the doublemint twins

 

[L8Braker]

Wow....just wow....reading everyone's opinion here on the Simo/Pedro incident has been real interesting. Perspective folks.

It's a two horse show now for the championship, gonna go with Stoner over Lorenzo. I am totally bummed for Pedrosa even though I'm not a fan.

 

[mylexicon]

So its ok in your opinion to recklessly tear into corners that you may not be able to make and hope other riders get out of the way?



Am sure Rossi was berated for that very thing at the first corner at qutar, but hey its only our opinions so i'll just agree to disagree.

Recklessness supposes that someone made a serious mental error. Dani did not have any mental deficiency during the overtaking maneuver, but Simoncelli did. As far as tearing into corners you might not be able to make--that's called overtaking. Sometimes, when a rider doesn't make a turn (not properly anyway), the fans are treated to a pass-repass situation which is fantastic sport. Sending one up the inside is a vital part of motorsport.



Rossi was berated for the same reason at Qatar and Jerez as Simoncelli is being berated for at LeMans--lack of proper decision-making and perhaps delusions of grandeur. Racers cannot compete alongside opponents whom they cannot trust to make reasonable maneuvers.



Furthermore, you are complaining about mitigating circumstances. If Simoncelli goes around the outside and then leaves no room, a collision is inevitable whether Dani is going exactly the right speed or whether he is traveling 40mph too fast to make the corner.

 

[inam22]

I don't know if any one seen this, there is talk about Rossi passing Dovi under yellow flags.









PIC: Rossi 'passes' Dovizioso under yellow flag?

With Race Direction handing out penalties to Casey Stoner and then Marco Simoncelli at Le Mans on Sunday - Valentino Rossi can perhaps count himself lucky to not be punished for this borderline 'pass' under a yellow flag.The picture shows Rossi moving back past Andrea Dovizioso as they arrive at the turn where yellow flags were being waved in the aftermath of Dani Pedrosa's accident.It would have been a harsh call had Rossi been punished, since the passing with Dovizioso began at the previous corner and the pair arrived at the yellow flags almost side-by-side.TV images showed Rossi initially passed Dovi when he ran wide through Garage Vert, but the #4 was then able to get a better exit onto the back straight, putting him a bike-length ahead of Rossi as they reached the braking area for the corner where the flags were being waved.At that point Dovizioso, perhaps fearing he would be punished, hit the brakes slightly earlier than Rossi - and the seven-time MotoGP champion claimed the position up the inside.Dovizioso later regained second place from Rossi, who went on to take his first podium for Ducati with third.

http://www.crash.net...ellow_flag.html

 

[Tom]

I don't know if any one seen this, there is talk about Rossi passing Dovi under yellow flags.

I spotted this right away and it seems pretty clear that Rossi came from behind Dovi and passed while flags were out, it was even replayed on the TV. I don't know the justification for him not getting a penalty is.

 

[Goatboy]

I would chuck it up on youtube if I knew it wouldn't get pulled straight away. Might have a go at doing it in pics...



Edit: can't get the video to work, if it doesn't appear before tommorow I'll do it.

 

[bigbang]

Recklessness supposes that someone made a serious mental error. Dani did not have any mental deficiency during the overtaking maneuver, but Simoncelli did. As far as tearing into corners you might not be able to make--that's called overtaking. Sometimes, when a rider doesn't make a turn (not properly anyway), the fans are treated to a pass-repass situation which is fantastic sport. Sending one up the inside is a vital part of motorsport.



Rossi was berated for the same reason at Qatar and Jerez as Simoncelli is being berated for at LeMans--lack of proper decision-making and perhaps delusions of grandeur. Racers cannot compete alongside opponents whom they cannot trust to make reasonable maneuvers.



Furthermore, you are complaining about mitigating circumstances. If Simoncelli goes around the outside and then leaves no room, a collision is inevitable whether Dani is going exactly the right speed or whether he is traveling 40mph too fast to make the corner.

Very good post, I totally I agree with everything above.

 

[Arrabbiata1]

Forced myself to watch the BBC coverage which I recorded for the the pre race features. I'm glad some members spotted the yellow flag infraction which was immediately noticed on Eurosport but missed by Cox and Parish who as usual had their heads up one another's ...... A yellow was definitely thrown after Dani went down and Vale definitely passed Dovi under this. At this moment Butler had gone into meltdown again and race direction were evidently furiously pre-occupied replaying Simoncelli's slingshot around the outside of Pedrosa. Charlie Cox opined that had Rossi have pulled that move there would have been no penalty, but in short Valentino simply wouldn't have attempted such an audacious pass at this stage in the race at such a notoriously nasty corner. Unable to have assailed Casey's lead he would have carefully chosen his moment, and pounced. I think much like Rossi's defence of his mistake at Jerez, Marco found himself with substantially more speed on the approach to the corner. Dani was clearly tiring but I admire him for coming straight back at Simoncelli. He wasn't however able to brake as late as Marco on the approach to Museum who came hurtling around the outside. Dani was going to have to run slightly wide out of the apex - and actually Marco did well to cut it back in but cut his nose off in the process which is when Pedrosa who had made the apex but was unable to maintain the tight line clipped his rear.



Had Marco cut back in slightly later and there would have been no contact Dani would have exited slightly wide, we'd all be talking about the pass of the season by Simoncelli and J4rn0 would have pissed his pants.



The penalty? Harsh - and unquestionably dealt out in the face of the recent furore surrounding Simoncelli's riding. I'm confident that no other rider on the grid would have been hauled in for a stop-go following that. Look what Marquez did to Reading at Estoril in comparison. It's always the same. Race Direction let it simmer and refuse to intervene until the paddock pressure cookers about to blow. They then dole out all manner of reactionary over zealous punishments in an inconsistent and rash manner. Simoncelli had no ill intent by this move, he was way faster into the corner, and I don't think Dani let off to run him wide, although as Rog points out, how could Race Direction know that at the point of meting out the penalty. It was however a poorly measured and risky move which has possibly cost Dani yet another championship elect.



Lex, on your observations about Tom Jojic's jinx, I was thinking exactly the same

- and he was back in the box again when it happened. Did you also noticed that Tom Tremayne was up there yesterday when De Puniet and Elias went down under questionable grip from the 'stones. Also Cal worryingly dropped by during the Moto 2 race.

 

[Andy Roo]

Recklessness supposes that someone made a serious mental error. Dani did not have any mental deficiency during the overtaking maneuver, but Simoncelli did. As far as tearing into corners you might not be able to make--that's called overtaking. Sometimes, when a rider doesn't make a turn (not properly anyway), the fans are treated to a pass-repass situation which is fantastic sport. Sending one up the inside is a vital part of motorsport.



Rossi was berated for the same reason at Qatar and Jerez as Simoncelli is being berated for at LeMans--lack of proper decision-making and perhaps delusions of grandeur. Racers cannot compete alongside opponents whom they cannot trust to make reasonable maneuvers.



Furthermore, you are complaining about mitigating circumstances. If Simoncelli goes around the outside and then leaves no room, a collision is inevitable whether Dani is going exactly the right speed or whether he is traveling 40mph too fast to make the corner.

I replayed this a number of times and it is clear that Dani's front tyre is scrubbing Marco's fairing well in front of the footpeg (leaving black marks) - Simoncelli straight out buggered up, it wasn't a clean pass or even an attempt at it. Dani had to stand the bike up, his front tyre was getting pushed around, Simoncelli deserved a penalty as he didn't give Dani an opportunity to do anything other than crash.



Plain stupid riding



Why did "contact sport" Butler punish him though, isn't this what he wanted?

 

[MigsAngel]

I really like Simoncelli, but he is still very immature and had the 'red mist' far more than he should. See Mugello 2008 and 2009 when he was a 250. One way or the other, he is bloody fast and exciting...and once he sorts his head out he will be winning races and possibly a future champion....



On Pedrosa, not his fault but he is too fragile...shame really.



Well done Rossi and Ducati!

 

[Arrabbiata1]

I don't know if any one seen this, there is talk about Rossi passing Dovi under yellow flags.

Read the preceding posts to yours - it's already been mentioned. I don't understand why people post on threads that they can't be bothered to read.



Like I said this was picked up immediately on Eurosport whilst the BBC commentary remained completely oblivious. This is precisely why I can't watch live race coverage since Eurosport lost the rights.

 

[Pigeon]

Yes the pass under yellow

the crash happened they got to the corner 6-7 secs later was that time to get the flags out and for Dovi-Rossi to see them tough call ?

 

[marcocelli]

Hi everyone, I am new to this site and don't want to create enemies quite yet so I'll choose my words carefully on the race crash.



I am not an expert or a racer just a keen biker and racing fan but here's my opinion.-

I have watched it a few times in slow mo and real time. It was an aggressive move on Pedrossa but it was done without intending to put him in an impossible situation. I do think Dani could have made the corner if he never out broke himself trying to run Marco wide. There was room for Dani to continue the corner as Marco was always moving round the outside and the door wasn't closed on him as Marco never tried to take the inside line away from him(watch the video again to check what I'm saying). I am not saying for a second that it was Danis fault. There were two racers fighting for a position, neither were prepared to give the position up, if they were they wouldn't be racers. I do think Marco was acting a bit to eagerly but not necessarily illegally, at the same time I do think Dani could have avoided him if he was prepared to give up the fight. It was nowhere as aggressive a move as J.LO (the Diva) made on Dovi in the early rounds (like he did to Simoncelli in Valencia last year). Neither was it half as serious as Stoner resorting to physical violence on the track (violence is violence, regardless). The reason Marco received the penalty was because these primadonnas have been bitching. It was an injustice on Marco, the ride through.

I was hoping this was gonna be the year for Dani as he deserves a title, I wanted to see him win today but I saw his chances disappear so I'm not just a Marco fan trying to justify something, I was actually hoping to see Dani take the championship lead today.

 

[Goatboy]

From Dovi's onboard it appears Rossi was ahead by the time the reached the first yellow flag. Which was quite a way down the staight!

 

[Keshav]

What race were you watching? How could marco have lost the "braking contest" when he ended up in front? Dan let off the brakes and stood the bike up mid corner cliping the rear of marco. Had dani have stayed on his line there might not have been a crash. Now the question is, why did dani stand his bike up. These are the answers needed BEFORE dishing out punishments.

Ended up in front? Or do you mean yanked his way across Dani's front tire when there was not enough room?



If Dani didn't begin to stand the bike when he did - he'd have gone off the track. It's not as if they were on a straightaway.



All that aside - it was perfectly clear from watching the video what happened and who was responsible.



You know I'm no big fan of Pedrosa, so I'm not pursuing this due to any bias I have favoring Dani. Simoncelli is

a freakin' Neanderthal and should be related to driving in demolition derbies.

 

[beefsupreme]

at the same time I do think Dani could have avoided him if he was prepared to give up the fight.

Pedrosa and Simoncelli approached the turn side-by-side. Being on the inside meant Pedrosa had to brake earlier to make the apex; at tip in, Pedrosa's visual path to the apex was clear and he could not have known that Simoncelli had decided he was going to sweep in from the right at high speed. Since Pedrosa was committed and in a full lean, by the time he saw Simoncelli coming in he had to sit up to brake (basically doing what you're suggesting, "give up the fight"). But since Simoncelli did not give Pedrosa enough room, Pedrosa couldn't stand it up and slow down fast enough.



The line between racing incident and illegal contact is one of intention, and since Simoncelli approached the apex from the outside of Pedrosa, he could see what Pedrosa was doing but not the other way around, and so it should have been Simoncelli who ceded the apex to Pedrosa.

 

[Keshav]

Embarrassed I forgot about Nakano at Kawasaki from 2004-2006.

Like cops and taxis, Super ...... is never around when needed.

 

[valerian]

Rossi passing under yellows? I think that would have been a very harsh call as they were both almost level and Rossi had lead Dovi out of the previous corner and Dovi had just passed him back.



As for the whole Pedosa/Simo coming together - Jojic made the point that he had complained in the past about Simo's rough house tactics and perhaps the stewards had his card marked so to speak.



Back to the Stoner punch - if that had been a football match, he had been sent off as you mustn't raise your hands.



All in all, quiet an exciting day - the first BSB race was a bit nutty as well - but alas West Ham have been relegated.