Latest (and last) chapter of the Ducati-Melandri-Gibernau soap opera

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 21 2008, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think both situations are equally likely and that's why a fog surrounds this situation.

It is possible that Ducati held very public tests with Gibernau to show the Ducati can be ridden by someone other than Stoner. Gibby agreed to see if it would generate interest for his services in the paddock of another team. There was never a plan to replace Melandri.

It is also possible that Ducati wanted to ditch Melandri b/c, to be honest, he has been riding like a lame duck since the 1st race of the season. Gibby knows the Duc and and Suppo was probably anxious to get someone in the seat ASAP so Malboro would shut up about Marco's performance.
More likely that this was the case but I don't buy Melandri running a Kwak during a season on another team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 21 2008, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>..................Ducati found out that during the summer break Melandri flew to Japan and tested the ninja in the Autopolis circuit ... rumours sayed Marco flew on the ninja, smashing the circuit record ...
Ducati panicked thinking they would look really bad if they fired Marco to put Sete in and then the next race Marco beat Sete with the Kawa, it would look like either their bike or their management is crap.

So Ducati LIED and said that they would keep Marco cause " of the improvement shown in Laguna", when Sete found out he declined the testing offer for Brno since it made no sense for him to test a bike when there was no chance for him to race this season and now he is looking for a seat in 2009.


Link (for those who want to improve their Spanish hehe)

If Melandri had gone to Japan to test the Kawa, obviously without Ducati's knowledge or consent, that would amount to a serious breach of their contract. One would be super careful to keep it extra secret, to avoid inviting legal reprisals... Moreover if he really wanted to switch to Kawa immediately, why make things so unnecessarily complicated--he could simply ask Suppo to be released on the spot, renouncing his contract, and Ducati would be more than happy to set him free immediately. Then he could stun everybody 'flying' on the Kwak--Yeah

marco wanted to get paid thru the end of his contract so if he were have to renounced it i doubt kawasaki were willing to make up the loss of pay. this is why he'll ride the year out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Aug 21 2008, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Melandri had gone to Japan to test the Kawa, obviously without Ducati's knowledge or consent, that would amount to a serious breach of their contract. One would be super careful to keep it extra secret, to avoid inviting legal reprisals... Moreover if he really wanted to switch to Kawa immediately, why make things so unnecessarily complicated--he could simply ask Suppo to be released on the spot, renouncing his contract, and Ducati would be more than happy to set him free immediately. Then he could stun everybody 'flying' on the Kwak--Yeah
Right! Now think back to Jumkie and Hayden chillin at the track. Shows him the Ducati key and Hayden doesn't say .... cause that could be a breach of contract. OK so riding the competitions bike wouldn't be one as though it is ok to just go out and sample the other companies bikes?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Aug 22 2008, 07:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Melandri had gone to Japan to test the Kawa, obviously without Ducati's knowledge or consent, that would amount to a serious breach of their contract. One would be super careful to keep it extra secret, to avoid inviting legal reprisals... Moreover if he really wanted to switch to Kawa immediately, why make things so unnecessarily complicated--he could simply ask Suppo to be released on the spot, renouncing his contract, and Ducati would be more than happy to set him free immediately. Then he could stun everybody 'flying' on the Kwak--Yeah


I'm glad someone said this. Melandri is going to have his contract set aside and there would be a negotiated release, depending on who paid up first (Duc or him), either way there will be a pro rata payment for termination and part performance. That said every other aspect of that contract would still stand and legally they would do the equivalent of hanging Marco by his ankles and gutting him like a rabbit if he rode another bike during a Ducati contract UNLESS he was given permission. Ducati would have the opportunity to save millions on the overall settlement.

Who thinks Ducati would give him permission to ride a Kawasaki?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Aug 22 2008, 03:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who thinks Ducati would give him permission to ride a Kawasaki?

A company that assumed he wouldn't be that fast on a Kwak. A company that wanted to help him leave so they could hire ROSSI'S NEMESIS and improve their chances of capturing the manufacturers title.

I'm not saying the rumors are true, but your rebuttal isn't airtight either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Aug 21 2008, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>marco wanted to get paid thru the end of his contract so if he were have to renounced it i doubt kawasaki were willing to make up the loss of pay. this is why he'll ride the year out.
So far best explanation.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Aug 21 2008, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>marco wanted to get paid thru the end of his contract so if he were have to renounced it i doubt kawasaki were willing to make up the loss of pay. this is why he'll ride the year out.

Assume that really Marco was super fast in those improbable Japanese tests, then Kawasaki would have some good reasons to pay Melandri for the rest of 2008 and get the results Hopkins has not been able to give them so far. That would also make a lot of marketing sense, they would look better than Ducati.

But probably the reality is that Marco is not really a much faster rider than John on a Kawa (at least not right from the start, without some practice and familiarization). I wouldn't really mind to be wrong on this one though, surprises make races more exciting, but this is hard to believe...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 22 2008, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A company that assumed he wouldn't be that fast on a Kwak. A company that wanted to help him leave so they could hire ROSSI'S NEMESIS and improve their chances of capturing the manufacturers title.

I'm not saying the rumors are true, but your rebuttal isn't airtight either.
Rossis Nemesis oh please when has Nicky ever beaten Valentino in a straight up fight?(the championship i quite agree is another thing entirely)Casey Sete and Max (the last two did waver out tho) they are and were Valentinos Nemesis'

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thom @ Aug 22 2008, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossis Nemesis oh please when has Nicky ever beaten Valentino in a straight up fight?(the championship i quite agree is another thing entirely)Casey Sete and Max (the last two did waver out tho) they are and were Valentinos Nemesis'

I was referring to Sete. If Marco left mid-season, Sete was going to be his replacement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 22 2008, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was referring to Sete. If Marco left mid-season, Sete was going to be his replacement.
My bad.Still same applies after Jerez 2005

As far as Melandri testing... I believe that he possibly could have.. Rossi spoke about being able to sample the Yamaha before he made the switch from Honda.
I don't doubt that arrangements could have been made for Melandri to ride the bike while he was in talks with Kawak.

The thing that I doubt is he being that much faster on the Kawak versus the Ducati.

nemesis |ˈneməsis|
noun ( pl. -ses |-ˌsēz|) (usu. one's nemesis)
the inescapable or implacable agent of someone's or something's downfall : the balance beam was the team's nemesis, as two gymnasts fell from the apparatus.
• a downfall caused by such an agent

Seems to me Vale was Sete's nemesis.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 21 2008, 04:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Link (for those who want to improve their Spanish hehe)
Isn't there any easier way for me to re-learn Spanish? And by the way, great game today Teo. Too bad LeBron, Kobe and the rest of the crew managed to look like a bunch of idiots after the game. Apologies.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 21 2008, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Melandri setting great pace on a Kawasaki would have made their uphill battle to obtain another rider even more difficult.
If the story is true, that would be the most logical reason as to why Ducati held onto Melandri. It sounds like these secret tests are becoming more and more common but I am hesitant to buy into it. There is too much at risk for Melandri financially to breach his Ducati contract, unless he was willing to pay Ducati the remainder of his 2008 salary and then some just for the opportunity to test for a team who would do anything to sign him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thom @ Aug 22 2008, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> My bad.Still same applies after Jerez 2005
Side note, seasons 2003 and 2004 are not archived in MotoGP history. Rossi has never had a nemesis. Ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Aug 24 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>nemesis |ˈneməsis|
noun ( pl. -ses |-ˌsēz|) (usu. one's nemesis)
the inescapable or implacable agent of someone's or something's downfall : the balance beam was the team's nemesis, as two gymnasts fell from the apparatus.
• a downfall caused by such an agent

Seems to me Vale was Sete's nemesis.

We're talking about Vale here, he is bullet proof. The only nemesis he has had is Michelin. I would love to say Hayden and Stoner were his nemeses but they never came close to getting in his head.

Sete on the other hand got into Vale's head in a very big way.

You're right, Vale has no nemesis. If anything he is everyone's nemesis. But for just a moment embrace the realm of relativity and ask yourself, "if I were trying to hire someone who could get into Rossi's head and cause him to perform in an a typical fashion, who would I hire?"

As far as I can tell, there is only one person--Sete. He is the closest thing Rossi will have to a nemesis. He is the only person who could cause Rossi to fail and make mistakes in the short term.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 25 2008, 01:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We're talking about Vale here, he is bullet proof. The only nemesis he has had is Michelin. I would love to say Hayden and Stoner were his nemeses but they never came close to getting in his head.

Sete on the other hand got into Vale's head in a very big way.

You're right, Vale has no nemesis. If anything he is everyone's nemesis. But for just a moment embrace the realm of relativity and ask yourself, "if I were trying to hire someone who could get into Rossi's head and cause him to perform in an a typical fashion, who would I hire?"

As far as I can tell, there is only one person--Sete. He is the closest thing Rossi will have to a nemesis. He is the only person who could cause Rossi to fail and make mistakes in the short term.
Yeah I gotta agree with you for the most part here. I will say that Stoner so far is really the only other one that seems to be able to withstand his mental .....

Sorry, but Marco has sucked on the Ducati and I don't think he will do much better on the Kawasaki.
I think he has decided he can't ride the thing, and has run the excuse that the bike does not suit his style, and he has just quit.
That is .... - the bike is fast. Look at Stoner and now Tony. Its clear Ducati have done everything possible to try to work with the guy, and accommodate his requirements. He has decided in his own head he can't ride it, and is not preparred to try to find the limit. He is content to ride around in 10 - 12 place and not risk tipping it over.
I think the pressure of joining Ducati as an Italian got to him, and when the results didn't come immediately after so much expectation, he decided the bike didn't suit 'his style' and he threw in the towel.
Ducati should buy him a ticket to Japan, so he can test the Kawasaki. Good luck to him.
He will suck on the Kawasaki too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 25 2008, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We're talking about Vale here, he is bullet proof. The only nemesis he has had is Michelin. I would love to say Hayden and Stoner were his nemeses but they never came close to getting in his head.

Sete on the other hand got into Vale's head in a very big way.

You're right, Vale has no nemesis. If anything he is everyone's nemesis. But for just a moment embrace the realm of relativity and ask yourself, "if I were trying to hire someone who could get into Rossi's head and cause him to perform in an a typical fashion, who would I hire?"

As far as I can tell, there is only one person--Sete. He is the closest thing Rossi will have to a nemesis. He is the only person who could cause Rossi to fail and make mistakes in the short term.

I think Stoner has typecast himself as a bit of technician rather than a "nemesis". He just rides so damn fast he is somewhat aloof from the down and gritty battles. He's the fastest guy out there and that’s that. He doesn’t want to take it up to Rossi, just ride away and that is why Sete was more of a nemesis, he wanted to battle with him on the track, Casey wants to show him a clean pair of heels.

Alternately it is also plausible that a dispassionate approach to racing Vale is the ..... in his armour as such, Casey just goes about the business and attempts to distance himself from a deeply personal battle. Ride fast, work on the technical and technique, leave that off track silliness to others. More than one way to skin a cat and the other way (that of the deeply involved nemesis i.e Biaggi or Sete) didn’t work.

It will make a fine diversion however and probably suit Casey and the Ducati

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Aug 25 2008, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Stoner has typecast himself as a bit of technician rather than a "nemesis". He just rides so damn fast he is somewhat aloof from the down and gritty battles. He's the fastest guy out there and that’s that. He doesn’t want to take it up to Rossi, just ride away and that is why Sete was more of a nemesis, he wanted to battle with him on the track, Casey wants to show him a clean pair of heels.

Alternately it is also plausible that a dispassionate approach to racing Vale is the ..... in his armour as such, Casey just goes about the business and attempts to distance himself from a deeply personal battle. Ride fast, work on the technical and technique, leave that off track silliness to others. More than one way to skin a cat and the other way (that of the deeply involved nemesis i.e Biaggi or Sete) didn’t work.

It will make a fine diversion however and probably suit Casey and the Ducati

Hey! You can't say that! That's basically what I've been saying, that Stoner want to avoid battles. The words Winner and Racer where used in the article I read that differentiated the two types that Rossi and Pedrosa are the foremost examples of, so I copyed those names. According to Jumkie that's one of the dead give aways for a true "Rossi mindless cheerleader" or "CRAZY" that seems to be his new favorite. Putting Stoner into the Winner category would put you firmly into our group. How about that Andy, now you are a CRAZY Mindless Cheerleader for Rossi? And of course as such you only write this to put down Stoners performance and showcase Rossi's "fantastic" abilities

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 25 2008, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey! You can't say that! That's basically what I've been saying, that Stoner want to avoid battles. The words Winner and Racer where used in the article I read that differentiated the two types that Rossi and Pedrosa are the foremost examples of, so I copyed those names. According to Jumkie that's one of the dead give aways for a true "Rossi mindless cheerleader" or "CRAZY" that seems to be his new favorite. Putting Stoner into the Winner category would put you firmly into our group. How about that Andy, now you are a CRAZY Mindless Cheerleader for Rossi? And of course as such you only write this to put down Stoners performance and showcase Rossi's "fantastic" abilities


I pick you as an archer, you can draw one hell of a long bow.

What I am saying is that Casey has been content to use his blinding speed, it has simply been available and it has typecast him, not the other way around. That is, he hasn’t really had to race all the time and the only fault that can be levelled is at the other riders who don’t ride fast. It’s really hard to race and battle when you’re 10 seconds clear.

The words winner and racer create a subjective distinction - I've used rider/racer as my paradigm in a number of threads for the objectivity. I make the distinction without prescribing some value laden descriptor to each as it hardly serves finer definition and debate.

I acknowledge Valentino as the fastest racer and a devilishly fast rider as well, whereas you prescribe some fundamentally flawed and almost pathological attributes to Casey, who I think is a fantastic rider - perhaps the best technical rider out there. He’s had enough scrapes to earn him the title of a good/great racer already. He’s young and learning, I think you should get used to the idea of him winning titles.