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Not going to be popular but here goes.

IMO, CS has valid issues with regards to some of the overtaking which was hard, forceful and IMO did touch if not cross the line on at least one occasion but it is a VR trademark.

IMO, the incident where CS crashed was more (read - all) CS and not VR as the corner had been taken the same by both riders on previous laps so CS knew what and where VR would put his bike. That incident did however show that CS took evasive action to avoid hitting VR and that does seem to have been overlooked a bit amongst te usual whinges about CS' comments. so credit to CS on that front (the evasivene action).

VR rode today like we have not seen for a number of years, like a desperate on the edge ragged at times lunatic prepared to take risks to achieve his aim which I feel was more to win at Laguna that beat CS per se (he just wanted to win bad). That VR felt he had to ride in tat manner shows a lot of the competition and just where VR sees himself, which is clearly as the challenged rather than the challenger but still (IMO) he was ragged and did not look in full control at times today.

For mine, the lowpoit (if it can be called that) and what is likely the bigger issue with CS' comments is VR's re-entry to the track after his minor off-track at the Corkscrew. The footage I saw seemed to indicate that he re-entered right into CS and took the line which whilst many would rejpoice, was IMO a re-entry fraught with danger and unnecessary. But it was also understandable within the context of the race as it was that section to the line where CS was quickest and to be behind onto the straight was going to likely cost VR the race. Good move or bad will be in individual interpretation but IMO it was the sign of desperation that showed how hard VR was pushing on the day.

CS' comments, whilst unfortunate (have only seen the televised ones) should be applauded and not derided as he again is prepared to say what he feels is right (and he is entitled to an opinion as well) whether people agree or disagree. It needs also to be recognised that he admitted the mistake was his fault.

Rather than focus on CS comments people should be marvelling at the pace vut by both VR and CS for the laps they were together, which was an extaordinary pace t create the gap they had. Mravellous and a masterclass to both VR and CS, was damn good to watch (and I am talking simply of the pace, not the overtakes).

CV rode a damn fine race as usual for this circuit and once clear was able to cut some good laptimes but was never a threat as the followers weren't for him either.

Dovi rode well and as has been said likely secured his Repsol bike for next year whilst Hayden finished as lead American which will pelase and disappoint him as he no doubt wanted better.

The rest, well pretty much expected with two surprising results for mine.

West looks and rides like a defeated individual who is just waiting for the guillotine to drop.

Capirossi - disappointing given his experience but will wait until we here more as to what the issue may have been.

And finally, with a new contract signed we saw Edwards go to lounge mode and run around for a point or two. Not a good haul given form nor publicity and will likely blame the Michelin's which may be valid but he was not the first Michelin runner so will need to wait until we hear. But, it is not unusual for CE to have a poor result or two after signing so IMO came as no real surprise.




Garry
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R-46 @ Jul 21 2008, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>check out the spikes and the lap counter.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...LziCA&hl=en
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Haven't seen that in years, it was suprisingly prescient, guys highsiding, running off the track, good to see the lap counter has been updated though.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Jul 21 2008, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>^^^ Try watching Vale and Sete going toe to toe before the "Curse" took hold of Sete.
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Yep, Sete was beaten mentally and then physicaly. That's what Rossi is good at he works out what makes his opponent tick and then works on it! Seen it time and time again. Stoners going down.
 
I gather lorenzo had another big highside; sorry to hear that. It seems he has too much intestinal fortitude for his own good. Maybe they have pushed the envelope with the factory yamaha to compete with the ducati and it is now unstable, particularly on michelins.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sarto @ Jul 21 2008, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So how should the rules apply here?

insidemove.jpg



well look at it like this ok it was a mistake......it was either the gravel or 2 riders being taken out which outcome would you have liked???


..........
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 21 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah gay!


its not a tea party! ..... get the ..... I say ...... bring back the "anger motivated" riders ....
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If I had the slightest idea what you were trying to say, I'd shoot you down.........................

Unfortunately, you make no sense, so I'm left feeling sorry for those less fortunate than me.

Pete
 
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I think nobody expected Rossi to attack here, against a Stoner who looked from another planet. Surely I didn't. It seemed futile even to think of it.

At the beginning when Vale took the lead I thought that it was just a show of pride on his part, before the inevitable happened and Stoner imposed his superior pace. I was waiting for Stoner's pass--then he would just take off...

I waited, but it didn't happen. Rossi kept his lead like his life depended on it. Slowly it dawned on me... He's actually TRYING to WIN this one!? Naaaah...
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This race reminded me (as well as many others I guess, including Stoner himself...) why this young man with a funny face has won so many world titles. Winning today took EVERYTHING Rossi has, including the traditional bit of luck, of course. Stoner WAS faster. Rossi was at the very limit all the time.

But he managed to irritate Stoner by keeping him behind,--no dirty tactics IMHO, just a masterful and ruthless application of all the tricks of the trade (and of an immense talent)--until Stoner finally MADE a mistake.

Pity, I would have preferred to see the scrap go on until the last corner, and it could have ended any way. Actually, Stoner would have probably won it if he had kept his cool.

But here is where Rossi has always been an alien--he ENJOYS it. Others get stressed, (understandably!) but not him. Immediately after the race he declared to italian TV "I really had a lot of fun!". He wasn't pretending, you could see he was excited like a little kid.

Pity Stoner expressed some sour feelings afterwards, but that's understandable. He has been squarely beaten at the very race he thought he would win hands down. That's bruising. But Casey is really fast and tough, he kept that throttle open in a furious way and never gave up. The superiority of the Ducati desmo is still there, and he's the only one who can make it visible. The battle for the title is not over...

This is the kind of duel we have been waiting to see between Rossi and Stoner, the two strongest riders in activity. I can only hope we'll see more. Next time it might be Stoner's turn to smile, and maybe Vale's to whine a little.

BEAUTIFUL
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 21 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>its not a tea party! ..... get the ..... I say ...... bring back the "anger motivated" riders ....
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Does 'get the ..... mean something different in Australia, because I'd have thought that was the last thing these guys would want during a race.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jul 21 2008, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>---
I think nobody expected Rossi to attack here, against a Stoner who looked from another planet. Surely I didn't. It seemed futile even to think of it.

At the beginning when Vale took the lead I thought that it was just a show of pride on his part, before the inevitable happened and Stoner imposed his superior pace. I was waiting for Stoner's pass--then he would just take off...

I waited, but it didn't happen. Rossi kept his lead like his life depended on it. Slowly it dawned on me... He's actually TRYING to WIN this one!? Naaaah...
<


This race reminded me (as well as many others I guess, including Stoner himself...) why this young man with a funny face has won so many world titles. Winning today took EVERYTHING Rossi has, including the traditional bit of luck, of course. Stoner WAS faster. Rossi was at the very limit all the time.

But he managed to irritate Stoner by keeping him behind,--no dirty tactics IMHO, just a masterful and ruthless application of all the tricks of the trade (and of an immense talent)--until Stoner finally MADE a mistake.

Pity, I would have preferred to see the scrap go on until the last corner, and it could have ended any way. Actually, Stoner would have probably won it if he had kept his cool.

But here is where Rossi has always been an alien--he ENJOYS it. Others get stressed, (understandably!) but not him. Immediately after the race he declared to italian TV "I really had a lot of fun!". He wasn't pretending, you could see he was excited like a little kid.

Pity Stoner expressed some sour feelings afterwards, but that's understandable. He has been squarely beaten at the very race he thought he would win hands down. That's bruising. But Casey is really fast and tough, he kept that throttle open in a furious way and never gave up. The superiority of the Ducati desmo is still there, and he's the only one who can make it visible. The battle for the title is not over...

This is the kind of duel we have been waiting to see between Rossi and Stoner, the two strongest riders in activity. I can only hope we'll see more. Next time it might be Stoner's turn to smile, and maybe Vale's to whine a little.

BEAUTIFUL
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good post man...... but i will say rossi did have to pull everyhting out of the bag today stoner is still on a quicker machine.... burgess and crew did the best they could to close the gap and did a dam good job but the yam wasnt quite there...rossi was defending today and did a good job even if he was abit hard at times......if the yamaha was as fast as the ducati then this race wouldnt have seemed so agressive on rossi's part i guarantee you.
 
Credit to Stoner for waking the old Rossi up. Nobody has pushed Rossi like that for a long time.

If the situation was reversed how would Rossi have reacted?

Nobody fights as hard as Rossi

Nobody overtakes on the outside like Stoner. Big bollocks.

Casey fully blamed himself for the off.

Where do you find a woman like Stoner's. When he went off, she didn't even flinch.

Was Rossi dangerous at times? Yes. But not dirty.

Stoner will regret the way he behaved but how many of us could be calm after all that adrenalin.

To all the people complaining about 800's, strap yourself in for the best 2nd half of a season in ages.

I like that Stoner was angry after the race, sign of a true will to win. He is now fired up & the old Rossi is back.

Full respect to both.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Jul 21 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>good post man...... but i will say rossi did have to pull everyhting out of the bag today stoner is still on a quicker machine.... burgess and crew did the best they could to close the gap and did a dam good job but the yam wasnt quite there...rossi was defending today and did a good job even if he was abit hard at times......if the yamaha was as fast as the ducati then this race wouldnt have seemed so agressive on rossi's part i guarantee you.


Agree with that there Jazkat.

I think it was clear that there were some OTT moves that would likely have been unnecessary if VR had the confidence in his machine.

Interesting though, who saw the podium and interplay between JB and CS (and it is not a negative)?





Garry
 
Not much talk about the ECU and that rot on this forum. We’ll see how we go next time Casey wins.

All I've ever said is that someone needed to brake later and get on the gas earlier to meet the Stoner challenge.

Somebody did.

Vale cut laps in the race he wasn't even near in practice. It got down and dirty and was fast fast fast. Vale roughed him up a little and if Casey needs to learn anything from the master this is it.

There is a difference between riding and racing, learn and adapt Casey.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Jul 21 2008, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well look at it like this ok it was a mistake......it was either the gravel or 2 riders being taken out which outcome would you have liked???


..........

There's no need to boast about it.
I checked your profile. Surprised to see you claim to be 28.


I think that Barry was making the valid point that if you run off track you are not allowed to improve your position when re-entering, or come back on track endangering other riders.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Jul 21 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>good post man...... but i will say rossi did have to pull everyhting out of the bag today stoner is still on a quicker machine.... burgess and crew did the best they could to close the gap and did a dam good job but the yam wasnt quite there...rossi was defending today and did a good job even if he was abit hard at times......if the yamaha was as fast as the ducati then this race wouldnt have seemed so agressive on rossi's part i guarantee you.


I don't think Rossi has ever been truely pushed until now, Stoner is a worthy adversary, I can't wait for the next race. It will be a good one...even if Stoner wins.

Come on Rossi!
 
Great race! My wife actually predicted that Casey would make the first big mistake. The race between the two of them seemed like a classic stare down contest, unfortunately for Casey he blinked first. The race was hard and some of Rossi's passes were very aggressive, but not unfair or dangerous in my opinion. Stoner seems to only be happy when he can rocket off into the distance, and when he does not there was something wrong with the bike or his competition was riding dangerously.

Rossi showed mettle and superior skill by being able to beat an excellent rider on a faster machine. The only time that is possible is on a short track. Rossi and Stoner are paid to win races, period. Would Stoner be happy if Rossi would have offered him a Vegamite(spelling?) sandwich as he ushered Stoner past with a wave and a smile? Stoner is an outstanding rider who needs to stop acting like my two year old when things do not go as he planed them. Rossi did what he had to do, and he did it a very demanding and scary track against a rider on a dominant bike. Rossi Rules!!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sarto @ Jul 21 2008, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There's no need to boast about it.
I checked your profile. Surprised to see you claim to be 28.


I think that Barry was making the valid point that if you run off track you are not allowed to improve your position when re-entering, or come back on track endangering other riders.

your still both not gettin the point, rossi was infront of stoner going into the corkscrew just over shot the corner so he wasnt using it to improve his possition because he was already in front...........

and yes im 28 but not on sundays..........
 
it's amazing what a little competition does for a series, and to riders
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Jul 21 2008, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wonder how drunk Jumkie and Roger are getting right now?
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Totally blasted! Rog has switched his phone off!

Me thinks Brolly Dollies!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 21 2008, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not much talk about the ECU and that rot on this forum. We’ll see how we go next time Casey wins.

All I've ever said is that someone needed to brake later and get on the gas earlier to meet the Stoner challenge.

Somebody did.

Vale cut laps in the race he wasn't even near in practice. It got down and dirty and was fast fast fast. Vale roughed him up a little and if Casey needs to learn anything from the master this is it.

There is a difference between riding and racing, learn and adapt Casey.

stoner is on a faster bike......... thats all rossi could do is defend, after the break hopefully it will be more even with new parts coming for honda and yamaha, hopefully then this gap would have finaly been closed and we see more racing like today...

to be honest i think if pedrosa was ok to race he would have crapped himself and left them to it
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