LAGUNA SECA GP 2013: RACE (Spoilers)

povol

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So they are not even out of fresh engines, much less "out of engines"!!

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Lets see.. Yam has 1 engine remaining for the rest of the season. Honda has 3.. = Yam is .......

In F1 mark Marquez ( which ironically in Spanish means - Mark son of Mark ??) would have had to give the position back or get a drive through penalty .


He cut the corner and gained an advantage , unfairly .


Fairly , he was faster than Rossi !

MainjetMike

3569051374603554

In F1 mark Marquez ( which ironically in Spanish means - Mark son of Mark ??) would have had to give the position back or get a drive through penalty .


He cut the corner and gained an advantage , unfairly .


Fairly , he was faster than Rossi !

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How can you gain an advantage if you're already ahead?


 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbjoIiHO7eg&feature=share&list=TLyUWBMJwpW-o

Stop sucking MMs balls :lol:

Kropotkin

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How can you gain an advantage if you're already ahead?


 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbjoIiHO7eg&feature=share&list=TLyUWBMJwpW-o

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Well of course the argument is that he was only able to get ahead by not slowing down enough for the corner.


 


       Counter argument, he slowed down enough for the corner and Rossi forced him off the track instead of yielding the position.


 


Met with, well isn't that Rossi's right to defend the line.


 


       To which we say, no.  Once Marquez has got a nose ahead of Rossi he has the right to the racing line... to 'defend' his position any further Rossi assumes the role


       of the attacking rider not the defending one and everything is reset.


 


Aha, so Simoncelli should never have got that penalty in Le Mans then for turning over Pedrosa?


 


       Well no, riders racing each other closely have to give each other enough room so as not to be deliberately forcing each other off the track or into accidents.


 


Well in that case why didn't anybody complain about Rossi being too forceful at Laguna this weekend?


 


      Because a) Marquez didn't come to any harm and 'kept' the advantage he had won fairly on the brakes


                     b ) Marquez doesn't give a .... because he loves racing


                     c) Everyone likes Rossi


 


 


 


... There we go, I did both halfs of the arguent because I still haven't decided firmly where i stand on all this.

Rossi overcooked the corner, forced Marquez (who was ahead of him by half a bike length at that point) off the track. Marquez could have crashed, but he didn't, he stayed on and rode over the outside of the corner.


 


Of course, the real reason why Marquez gained so much ground is because Rossi had the anchors on all the way down the Corkscrew, and was ....... SLOW down there. Compare Rossi's speed down there with everyone else's.


http://youtu.be/s3C524EtkTM

Good video I enjoyed that.  Just out of curiosity in your opinion, had that move gone a bit .... up and the riders made contact as they turned in do you think we would have seen some intervention?  If so would you expect a penalty for Marquez like that old Simoncelli move or one for Rossi for forcing Marquez out.  OR do you think the penalty would go against whichever rider stayed on his bike, while if they both crashed it would go back to being a racing incident?

The incident was 100% Rossi's fault. If Marquez had crashed, Rossi would have been given a penalty.


 


cue the tinfoil brigade

MainjetMike

3569051374603554

In F1 mark Marquez ( which ironically in Spanish means - Mark son of Mark ??) would have had to give the position back or get a drive through penalty .

He cut the corner and gained an advantage , unfairly .

Fairly , he was faster than Rossi !

Click to expand...

If the corner was surrounded by Armco or a wall rather than a dusty dirty motox track ( albeit very steep ) then MM would have been sliding on his arse infront of the whole world .


I therefore think he gained an advantage .


The move was ballsy though and I applaud that .


He was also quicker than Rossi , again begrudgingly I applaud .


BUT and it's a big but , MM couid have ended two carreers with that move if they'd both come off .


My point is : in f1 he'd have had to give the place back .


I also think Rossi really did want to strangle him in parc ferme

MainjetMike

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If the corner was surrounded by Armco or a wall rather than a dusty dirty motox track ( albeit very steep ) then MM would have been sliding on his arse infront of the whole world .


I therefore think he gained an advantage .


The move was ballsy though and I applaud that .


He was also quicker than Rossi , again begrudgingly I applaud .


BUT and it's a big but , MM couid have ended two carreers with that move if they'd both come off .


My point is : in f1 he'd have had to give the place back .


I also think Rossi really did want to strangle him in parc ferme

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What part of "Rossi ran wide and forced Marquez off the track" do you not understand? I thought they punished drivers who push other drivers off the track in F1?

Tom

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Good video I enjoyed that.  Just out of curiosity in your opinion, had that move gone a bit .... up and the riders made contact as they turned in do you think we would have seen some intervention?  If so would you expect a penalty for Marquez like that old Simoncelli move or one for Rossi for forcing Marquez out.  OR do you think the penalty would go against whichever rider stayed on his bike, while if they both crashed it would go back to being a racing incident?

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Excellent question! I have no idea which stack of money DORNA would favor but wanna know.

Kropotkin

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The incident was 100% Rossi's fault. If Marquez had crashed, Rossi would have been given a penalty.


 


cue the tinfoil brigade

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But if Rossi had crashed what do you think would have been the reaction?


 
MainjetMike

3569181374615299

If the corner was surrounded by Armco or a wall rather than a dusty dirty motox track ( albeit very steep ) then MM would have been sliding on his arse infront of the whole world .


I therefore think he gained an advantage .


The move was ballsy though and I applaud that .


He was also quicker than Rossi , again begrudgingly I applaud .


BUT and it's a big but , MM couid have ended two carreers with that move if they'd both come off .


My point is : in f1 he'd have had to give the place back .


I also think Rossi really did want to strangle him in parc ferme

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Firstly, if the track was surrounded in Armco they would have been riding very diferently, you don't see passes like that at Macau!!


 


Secondly, while it may be true that in F1 that place would have to be returned, that doesn't make it right.  Things like that are actually damaging for F1 and not on it's list of strengths, especially when compared to Motogp.

MM cut the corner , took a short cut infact .


How much of a short cut us allowed ? A bit ? A little bit or a bit more ??


He cheated IMHO .


If cheating is now allowed I'd be motogp champ 2014 as I'd find a way to only do half a lap and make it count .



He didn't need to cheat he was much faster anyway .






I'm brand new on this forum , but enjoying the crack very much . Thanks

MainjetMike

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MM cut the corner , took a short cut infact .



He didn't need to cheat he was much faster anyway .

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How exactly was he supposed to do anyting other than what he did?


 


As I'm sure you noticed Rossi ran to the edge of the track and slightly beyond to block Marc from turning into the corner.  You could clearly see in the replays Marquez going for his turn in point, leaning on Rossi and eventually having to abort because Rossi did not allow him to stay on the circuit.  I would even say the reason why Marquez made it over the dirty bit so safely is because he had braked enough for the corner and he had already done a lot of turning.  Meanwhile Rossi was running pretty much in a straight line to the outside of the track still hard on the brakes.

It's all opinions and my rosé tinted Rossi opinion is that 46 was on the racing line , MM was not .

MainjetMike

3569251374615973

MM cut the corner , took a short cut infact .


How much of a short cut us allowed ? A bit ? A little bit or a bit more ??


He cheated IMHO .


If cheating is now allowed I'd be motogp champ 2014 as I'd find a way to only do half a lap and make it count .



He didn't need to cheat he was much faster anyway .






I'm brand new on this forum , but enjoying the crack very much . Thanks

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Marquez cut the corner, after being pushed off the track by Rossi. If Marquez holds his line, he knocks Rossi off, in much the same way that Simoncelli did at Le Mans. He does the right thing - gives Rossi space. Rossi then has to wrestle his bike to the bottom of the corkscrew, because he hasn't been able to get the bike stopped properly. It looks like Marquez passes Rossi in the Corkscrew, but actually, Rossi loses nearly a second in that corner alone. Because he made an error.

MainjetMike

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It's all opinions and my rosé tinted Rossi opinion is that 46 was on the racing line , MM was not .

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Rossi was not on the racing line, more of a 'do or die' line.  Marquez was on the 'get out of my way old man, you're way too slow' line.

MainjetMike

3569291374616528

It's all opinions and my rosé tinted Rossi opinion is that 46 was on the racing line , MM was not .

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If you define "the racing line" as "any piece of tarmac where Valentino Rossi happens to be riding" then yes, he was on the racing line. If you define the racing line as the correct line through the corner, he was about three yards wide of it.

Anyway , why was moto 2 and 3 not at Laguna ?


I know in the olden days ( yeah I'm old ) the American motogp didn't allow 2 strokes . What's the reason now other than reducing cost ?


Does anyone know ?

Probably every one here knows the answers.