stiefel
If the pass has been completed, there is no problem. As has been demonstrated many times in Moto2.
If the pass has been completed, there is no problem. As has been demonstrated many times in Moto2.
Joined Feb 2008
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote1374502238
Great, so deliberately overshooting corners is now an accepted race tactic.
I wouln't know about this sort of thing happening in moto2, I don't pay too much attention to what's happening there anymore. But I'll take your word for it.
Great, so deliberately overshooting corners is now an accepted race tactic.
I wouln't know about this sort of thing happening in moto2, I don't pay too much attention to what's happening there anymore. But I'll take your word for it.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
I don't think Mark was pushed out. He took an outside line that would've taken him exactly where he went and he knew it.
There was no outside line on that corner that would have kept him on the track him.
Rossi did not push him out because there was no room for him to be there in the first place.
Marquez should either be penalized or have conceded the spot and let Rossi get back in front of him. But we all know when it comes to the two golden boys there is no race direction
There was no outside line on that corner that would have kept him on the track him.
Rossi did not push him out because there was no room for him to be there in the first place.
Marquez should either be penalized or have conceded the spot and let Rossi get back in front of him. But we all know when it comes to the two golden boys there is no race direction
Joined Feb 2008
2K Posts | 0+
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote1374502603
They could not penalize him when taking the same line was not penalized in 2008, when it actually caused a potentially more dangerous situation. Also, Rossi overcooked the corner and ran outside the track too.
They could not penalize him when taking the same line was not penalized in 2008, when it actually caused a potentially more dangerous situation. Also, Rossi overcooked the corner and ran outside the track too.
The story of the corkscrew in 2013 is a tale of pay-it-forward.
In 2008, Rossi launched an ill-advised overtake up the inside of Stoner at the corkscrew. Stoner basically did all of the work to make sure they both survived. Five years later, Marquez made a move around the outside of the corkscrew, which is suicide. If Rossi had taken his 2008 line, Marquez would be in hospital this morning. Rossi didn't give the position to Marquez by any means, but Rossi did yield the 2008 line and Rossi did the work necessary to keep them both alive.
Marquez didn't get revenge for HRC. He basically put his life in Rossi's hands, and Rossi let him live. If Marquez had pulled that kind of maneuver against against someone else the outcome might not have been so nice. Mat Mladin, for instance, would have put Marquez into the wall. When the race was inevitably red flagged, Mladin would have walked into the HRC pit box and beaten Marquez Sr. mercilessly for bringing such a stupid child into this world.
Why do you think Spies always brought his mom to the races? Mat wouldn't hit a woman.............right? :unsure:
In 2008, Rossi launched an ill-advised overtake up the inside of Stoner at the corkscrew. Stoner basically did all of the work to make sure they both survived. Five years later, Marquez made a move around the outside of the corkscrew, which is suicide. If Rossi had taken his 2008 line, Marquez would be in hospital this morning. Rossi didn't give the position to Marquez by any means, but Rossi did yield the 2008 line and Rossi did the work necessary to keep them both alive.
Marquez didn't get revenge for HRC. He basically put his life in Rossi's hands, and Rossi let him live. If Marquez had pulled that kind of maneuver against against someone else the outcome might not have been so nice. Mat Mladin, for instance, would have put Marquez into the wall. When the race was inevitably red flagged, Mladin would have walked into the HRC pit box and beaten Marquez Sr. mercilessly for bringing such a stupid child into this world.
Why do you think Spies always brought his mom to the races? Mat wouldn't hit a woman.............right? :unsure:
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
In F1 the pass does not stand if all four wheels are off the track i.e. the other side of the white line. Now I didn't know (and still don't as I haven't checked the rules I will admit) if that same rule applied in motogp. Given that the commentators didn't say it was an illegal move (as the F1 commentators do when such a thing happens) I took it that it must have been a legal pass, especially as, to my knowledge, no protest was put in and no penalty was given after the race for an illegal move. Therefore I assuming (rightly or wrongly) that passing off the track like that is allowed.
The rules are on the FIM website. Section 1.21.3
http://www.fim-live.com/en/fim/fim-official-documents/fim-regulations/
http://www.fim-live.com/en/fim/fim-official-documents/fim-regulations/
Kropotkin
Thanks for that Krop
Okay, having read that, it suggests to me the move was as illegal as it would have been in F1, in which case why didn't anyone complain or make Marquez hand back the place?
Now I'm even more confused!!
Thanks for that Krop
Okay, having read that, it suggests to me the move was as illegal as it would have been in F1, in which case why didn't anyone complain or make Marquez hand back the place?Now I'm even more confused!!
cliché guevara
And I am putting in my order for a slice of Krops humble pie. I didn't think the kid had it in him.
He proved me wrong.
3567421374445513
so stefan got on the podium earlier than cal (and sic for that matter) while crashing significantly less.
can't give him the boot now can they
And I am putting in my order for a slice of Krops humble pie. I didn't think the kid had it in him.
He proved me wrong.
stiefel
Right. Let's say a rider over shoots a chicane while attempting a pass, even if he gives up the position again.............. he would still carry the 'momentum speed' advantage to try and make a pass again on the next corner.
It's still unfair!!
Right. Let's say a rider over shoots a chicane while attempting a pass, even if he gives up the position again.............. he would still carry the 'momentum speed' advantage to try and make a pass again on the next corner.
It's still unfair!!
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
The rules are quite confusing But if you read chapter 46 paragraph 93 it states clearly in microscopic print " all above mentioned rules do not apply to Valentino Rossi or Mark Marquez"
I thought the move was hilarious because it looked so familiar, but obviously looking in detail it was very different.
When Rossi passed Stoner in 08 he was on the inside, braked deep and that put Stoner in a position where he HAS to concede the position. The main danger of Rossi's 08 move was his re-entry to the circuit because he was sliding onto Stoners line with little control. I think this has already been pointed out by someone else.
This year Marquez decided to pass on the outside, which means if he can't get almost all the way past Rossi on the brakes (unrealistic), Vale ultimately has control of when Marquez can turn into the corner. Rossi was always going to let off the brakes and go as wide as he can to defend. By doing what he dad Marquez assumes pretty much all of the risk of the move himself, so the danger/safety side of the pass is much less incriminating for him than it was for Rossi.
A question i found myself asking and I will ask to you guys on here is: Had that pass happened at a more conventional corner, for example turn 1 & 2 at Misano or Catalunya, do you really think Marquez would have gotten away with it?? Personally I don't.
I think the benefit of the doubt could be argued on both riders parts on the basis of intent. Does anyone think either of them ever wanted to go off the road there?? I don't, but if it had been a little trip accross a flat tarmac run-off area I would be much more sceptical because it could easily look like 'the easy option' or taking the piss entry speed wise because you know you can.
The move was clearly seen as a racing incident, and I am thankful for that because what I would hate to see in motogp is a situation where it gets like F1. When the sports goes publicly into the field of altering race results by debating technicalities of who was how far past at what point, everyone loses. For as long as incidents like this remain relatively few and far between they can continue to be taken at face value, so hopefully the riders don't get too carried away and force race direction to step in more often.
The thing that really annoys about this culture in F1 is situations just like the one we saw this weekend where a faster rider is forced to brake on the outside by a defending rider, who then brakes deep knowing he'll run to the very edge of the track because by doing so the attacking rider is forced off the road and into a penalty. It's ugly. So I say good on Motogp for letting these moves go as much as possible.
On a final note, Marquez was clearly substantially faster than Rossi yesterday, he would surely have got past shortly after if not on that attempt, so very much unlike 2008 the move this year was not decisive or particularly consequential.
When Rossi passed Stoner in 08 he was on the inside, braked deep and that put Stoner in a position where he HAS to concede the position. The main danger of Rossi's 08 move was his re-entry to the circuit because he was sliding onto Stoners line with little control. I think this has already been pointed out by someone else.
This year Marquez decided to pass on the outside, which means if he can't get almost all the way past Rossi on the brakes (unrealistic), Vale ultimately has control of when Marquez can turn into the corner. Rossi was always going to let off the brakes and go as wide as he can to defend. By doing what he dad Marquez assumes pretty much all of the risk of the move himself, so the danger/safety side of the pass is much less incriminating for him than it was for Rossi.
A question i found myself asking and I will ask to you guys on here is: Had that pass happened at a more conventional corner, for example turn 1 & 2 at Misano or Catalunya, do you really think Marquez would have gotten away with it?? Personally I don't.
I think the benefit of the doubt could be argued on both riders parts on the basis of intent. Does anyone think either of them ever wanted to go off the road there?? I don't, but if it had been a little trip accross a flat tarmac run-off area I would be much more sceptical because it could easily look like 'the easy option' or taking the piss entry speed wise because you know you can.
The move was clearly seen as a racing incident, and I am thankful for that because what I would hate to see in motogp is a situation where it gets like F1. When the sports goes publicly into the field of altering race results by debating technicalities of who was how far past at what point, everyone loses. For as long as incidents like this remain relatively few and far between they can continue to be taken at face value, so hopefully the riders don't get too carried away and force race direction to step in more often.
The thing that really annoys about this culture in F1 is situations just like the one we saw this weekend where a faster rider is forced to brake on the outside by a defending rider, who then brakes deep knowing he'll run to the very edge of the track because by doing so the attacking rider is forced off the road and into a penalty. It's ugly. So I say good on Motogp for letting these moves go as much as possible.
On a final note, Marquez was clearly substantially faster than Rossi yesterday, he would surely have got past shortly after if not on that attempt, so very much unlike 2008 the move this year was not decisive or particularly consequential.
Willski
I actually think Ben does a nice job with the mic. I think this was his 3rd time doing that...perhaps plan C is being implemented.
I actually think Ben does a nice job with the mic. I think this was his 3rd time doing that...perhaps plan C is being implemented.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
The best part of this race was Joe Satriani doing this Star-Spangled Banner.
What the .... is wrong with the PA announcer to say In front of an international group, that America is the greatest nation on earth
What the .... is wrong with the PA announcer to say In front of an international group, that America is the greatest nation on earth
