Just for Barry and Arab

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/N...2011/January/jan3111-video-how-to-back-it-in/





Does this end the debate?







I suspect not

I think we can all see what a "kids skid" is now







Not that I have ever thought much of that guy as a rider, he does save his arse by effectively saying its a "beginners method" ie its a way to "create that backing in experience without the high speeds". ergo ......... kids skids not backing it in. If he was backing it in he would be going somewhere after the maneuver as fast as he could, he was just skidding to a stop. If one was entering a corner on the limit ( as one is in a race ) the effect of the arse end coming around can be initiated by much more sensitive means than brakes and downshifting ( the latter I say because many a corner entry with no downshift can still be backed in ...... hence the downshift can be excluded as a "staple part" of the event.) Under normal conditions whilst entering a corner in a race ...... nobody is doing what Nelves is showing ......... nobody. They would not last long if they did.







Bit surprised he even links what he is doing with backing it in, but then again its Nelves? a magazine writer, and from my past experience magazine writers can't ride







May end the "debate" for some, however it was never really a debate for me ........... I am not debating whether or not Arab was wrong, I've told him straight out he is wrong, and why. Nelves alludes to to it not being a "real" method, whether or not he he knows a real method ...... I don't know, but I suspect from the fact he was doing "kids skids" at his age, that he is not able to "back it in" for real. Either that or he is also of the opinion that nobody really "tries to back it in" ...... its really a fight against what the bike is doing under a very sensitive balance of physical conditions ......... saving grace for Nelves? ( though not much ) is that he does say its really done at much higher speeds.



I do suspect what Nelves is showing there is what Arab thinks is "backing it in" ....... however I seriously suggest to you that the last time a "rider" did what Nelves is doing ....... was on a KX60 at a very much younger age



Thats not backing it in ...... if you think it is ......... then you need to get on a bike and approach a corner ...... to the point of terror with the bike seemingly out of control ...... then persuade the bike back into a modicum of control enough to shift its direction ....... if you are lucky degrees of things you do even whilst seemingly out of control will occur to you and you will thence learn to go faster. After a while you may realise ....... a lot of racing is pure terror ( I put it that way to help those who have never raced get the feel/setting/mood ) ......... numbed by a blind urge to either go fast, win, learn new tricks to control the bike ( hence the terror ) ....... I don't think one ever losses the terror but the better one gets at riding the more one can put it just below the surface in certain instances ........ then these instances can add up to the point where you can flow ..........



then to go faster you find new "terror" ( cos to go faster you have to find new limits .... new terror ) and find ways to technically overcome instances causing that new terror .......... and on and on it goes. You can't overcome the terror with stupidity ..... after a while stupidity wins ....... usually at a much slower pace than learning riding techniques can provide. All that is part of why I will always think of the IOM ( and other crap track events ) as not a real race and will always attract riders who use "non-technical" means to overcome the "terror".



This whole topic may have started from observations of Stoner at PI? .......... its a shame really cos it kinda says not many folks truly appreciate the levels these guys have got to ....... the "terror" they have experienced , and the amazing technical skill they have uncovered and are using to overcome levels of "terror" mere mortals have no idea even exist hence the skills are unfathomable.

In his way Spies says it often of Stoner, I can understand why Spies will be up there some day. Somethng tells me Spies is a willing and capable learner, watch out other riders.



but ....... real backing it in ........ is one of those times when the terror is close .......... its kinda like "HHHHHOOOOOOOOOLLLLLEEEEEYYYYY SHHHSHHHHSHHHIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTT ........... Am I gunna maaaaaakkkkkeeee tttttHHHHHiiiiSSSSSS!!!!" ......... whilst balancing on a balcony railing 10 storeys up ......... there are things you would not do in that situation that would help you minimise the resurfacing of "the terror" ........ I suspect the list of "things you would not do" increases the higher the balcony ................ As would trying to skid a bike whilst on the balance of terror and control. ...... Nelves was nowhere near that ........ he was demonstrating how to skid a bike ........ thats all.

Bloke in the vid is saying exactly what Arrab and I said all along. I would love to see the berry method where he can back in just by shifting his body weight



Good on ya Bunny

chopperman said:

Bloke in the vid is saying exactly what Arrab and I said all along. I would love to see the berry method where he can back in just by shifting his body weight

Good on ya Bunny

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haha yeah you go thinking that is "backing it in" Rog. ....... I've said it before and I still maintain ........ it is not ........... Nelves even says it himself if you bothered to listen.











PS. Actually Bunny ...... this is a good topic ....... things were getting boring and puerile around here

BarryMachine said:

I think we can all see what a "kids skid" is now

Not that I have ever thought much of that guy as a rider, he does save his arse by effectively saying its a "beginners method" ie its a way to "create that backing in experience without the high speeds". ergo ......... kids skids not backing it in. If he was backing it in he would be going somewhere after the maneuver as fast as he could, he was just skidding to a stop. If one was entering a corner on the limit ( as one is in a race ) the effect of the arse end coming around can be initiated by much more sensitive means than brakes and downshifting ( the latter I say because many a corner entry with no downshift can still be backed in ...... hence the downshift can be excluded as a "staple part" of the event.) Under normal conditions whilst entering a corner in a race ...... nobody is doing what Nelves is showing ......... nobody. They would not last long if they did.







Bit surprised he even links what he is doing with backing it in, but then again its Nelves? a magazine writer, and from my past experience magazine writers can't ride

May end the "debate" for some, however it was never really a debate for me ........... I am not debating whether or not Arab was wrong, I've told him straight out he is wrong, and why. Nelves alludes to to it not being a "real" method, whether or not he he knows a real method ...... I don't know, but I suspect from the fact he was doing "kids skids" at his age, that he is not able to "back it in" for real. Either that or he is also of the opinion that nobody really "tries to back it in" ...... its really a fight against what the bike is doing under a very sensitive balance of physical conditions ......... saving grace for Nelves? ( though not much

) is that he does say its really done at much higher speeds.



I do suspect what Nelves is showing there is what Arab thinks is "backing it in" ....... however I seriously suggest to you that the last time a "rider" did what Nelves is doing ....... was on a KX60 at a very much younger age

Thats not backing it in ...... if you think it is ......... then you need to get on a bike and approach a corner ...... to the point of terror with the bike seemingly out of control ...... then persuade the bike back into a modicum of control enough to shift its direction ....... if you are lucky degrees of things you do even whilst seemingly out of control will occur to you and you will thence learn to go faster. After a while you may realise ....... a lot of racing is pure terror ( I put it that way to help those who have never raced get the feel/setting/mood ) ......... numbed by a blind urge to either go fast, win, learn new tricks to control the bike ( hence the terror ) ....... I don't think one ever losses the terror but the better one gets at riding the more one can put it just below the surface in certain instances ........ then these instances can add up to the point where you can flow ..........



but ....... real backing it in ........ is one of those times when the terror is close .......... its kinda like "HHHHHOOOOOOOOOLLLLLEEEEEYYYYY SHHHSHHHHSHHHIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTT ........... Am I gunna maaaaaakkkkkeeee tttttHHHHHiiiiSSSSSS!!!!" ......... whilst balancing on a balcony railing 10 storeys up ......... there are things you would not do in that situation that would help you minimise the resurfacing of "the terror" ........ I suspect the list of "things you would not do" increases the higher the balcony

................ As would trying to skid a bike whilst on the balance of terror and control. ...... Nelves was nowhere near that ........ he was demonstrating how to skid a bike ........ thats all.

Click to expand...

This is how you spell concede: C-O-N-C-E-D-E. You really didn't need to poast longer than one sence above. We all can see the video and understand what the rider is saying and meaning. I suspect the only "kid skids" here are in your underwear.



Well, I know its is of no surprise to anybody but...Arrabbi: RIGHT Barry: WRONG!

Jumkie said:

This is how you spell concede: C-O-N-C-E-D-E. You really didn't need to poast longer than one sence above. We all can see the video and understand what the rider is saying and meaning. I suspect the only "kid skids" here are in your underwear.



Well, I know its is of no surprise to anybody but...Arrabbi: RIGHT Barry: WRONG!

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So ......... when did you last see a racer backing it in as per Mr Nelves "beginners method" Jum?



Never.



Hope you read some of the comments on the vid itself Jum.



The more I watch it the more lame I find it .......... lets face it the guy is just skidding to a stop in a straight line ........ how the hell is that "backing it in" its not even "beginner level" as he calls it really, its the kinda stuff kids do after a few rides on their minibike.



Thank you Mr Nelmes ..... Neemes .... I rest my case ..... Don't know how you guys are going to save face after this one





I will concede that you guys have no idea Jum, that has become blatantly obvious.







Skid away chaps, but remember ...... dad has to pay for the tyres



I must admit at the speeds Nelves was doing he ain't going to cause many deaths anyway.





But hey if you want o learn your riding skills from a magazine/vid ...... that guy writes for a magazine ( that must be the ultimate source of motorcycle riding knowledge ) ........ go for it ......... but it is wrong if you are saying that backing it in is initiated by use of the rear brake and/ or downshifting. It does not explain why a bike will back it in without the use of either of these



Get on a bike and ride some more .......... you'll get there.

Oh come on guys!!



Don't let superman stop you!



This could be a good thread! ......... sure would beat all the "Rossi has yellow undies on today", "Rossi will find another 5 seconds by using a rubber chicken and a photo of him and Jumkie", "rossi will race F1 next year in the Vatican F1 team", "Rossi has had shoulder surgery which was much more amazing than anybody elses shoulder surgery" etc. etc. etc.







Ok I have it:



The rider in that clip was only doing big "skiddies" because he has extreme tendonitis from writing about Rossi's off season woes.

BarryMachine said:

So ......... when did you last see a racer backing it in as per Mr Nelves "beginners method" Jum?



Never.



Hope you read some of the comments on the vid itself Jum.

The more I watch it the more lame I find it .......... lets face it the guy is just skidding to a stop in a straight line

........ how the hell is that "backing it in"

its not even "beginner level" as he calls it really, its the kinda stuff kids do after a few rides on their minibike.



Thank you Mr Nelmes ..... Neemes .... I rest my case ..... Don't know how you guys are going to save face after this one

I will concede that you guys have no idea Jum, that has become blatantly obvious.

Skid away chaps, but remember ...... dad has to pay for the tyres

I must admit at the speeds Nelves was doing he ain't going to cause many deaths anyway.





But hey if you want o learn your riding skills from a magazine/vid ...... that guy writes for a magazine ( that must be the ultimate source of motorcycle riding knowledge

) ........ go for it ......... but it is wrong if you are saying that backing it in is initiated by use of the rear brake and/ or downshifting. It does not explain why a bike will back it in without the use of either of these

Get on a bike and ride some more .......... you'll get there.

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There's no skid involved you fool ! Making the rear wheel ROTATE slower than the front is not skidding

All peeps need to do is read your sig to see what a trolling jerk you are !

You have absolutely no clue Rog,



Thats just a slo-mo skiddy

BarryMachine said:

You have absolutely no clue Rog,

Thats just a slo-mo skiddy

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Thats right berry, the whole world and his wife is wrong according to you

chopperman said:

Thats right berry, the whole world and his wife is wrong according to you

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Did you even listen to what Neeves said he was demonstrating Rog ........ listen again As I said before its his saving grace to some extent. however I do agree with many of the folk who commented on that video ........ it was useless, possibly dangerous, not really backing it in, actually just a skid, just a straight line skid to a stop.



When Neeves said its a way fora beginner to get a feel for what its like to back it in ....... what does that say to you Rog.



You goose

Oh for ..... sake.



Berry: .... or get off the pot

Others: Stop feeding this troll

BarryMachine said:

Did you even listen to what Neeves said he was demonstrating Rog ........ listen again

As I said before its his saving grace to some extent. however I do agree with many of the folk who commented on that video ........ it was useless, possibly dangerous, not really backing it in, actually just a skid, just a straight line skid to a stop.



When Neeves said its a way fora beginner to get a feel for what its like to back it in ....... what does that say to you Rog.

You goose

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You knew the consequences Rog, you knew what would happen.

#22 said:

Oh for ..... sake.



Berry: .... or get off the pot

Others: Stop feeding this troll

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So are you saying what that guy is doing is backing it in ?



Useless post with nothing to say at all .



Rog. Did you work out what he said yet



Goatboy another "nothing to add" post, no substance at all as usual.





So how was Mr Neeves intending to transition to powering out of the corner? should he have found a corner to try his skids on ......

BarryMachine said:

Goatboy another "nothing to add" post, no substance at all as usual.

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The inherant irony!



You really are a case for eugenics.

Goatboy said:

The inherant irony!



You really are a case for eugenics.

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BarryMachine said:

So are you saying what that guy is doing is backing it in ?



Useless post with nothing to say at all .



Rog. Did you work out what he said yet

Goatboy another "nothing to add" post, no substance at all as usual.





So how was Mr Neeves intending to transition to powering out of the corner? should he have found a corner to try his skids on ......

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Well you'd know all about talking .....



Until you make a video like that of your own showing us how you 'do it' then quit flappin' your lip.

#22 said:

Well you'd know all about talking .....



Until you make a video like that of your own showing us how you 'do it' then quit flappin' your lip.

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Walk away man, walk away.