Help Support MotoGP Forum:
It is now widely acknowledged that the 2017 M1 is a flawed bike. The 80% estimate was given based on that.
The previous years, when it was a competent bike, he was runner up on multiple occasions.
If you exclude the bike from th equation and put them all on KTM rookies bikes or something, he will still be in the top 20%.
The previous years, when it was a competent bike, he was runner up on multiple occasions.
If you exclude the bike from th equation and put them all on KTM rookies bikes or something, he will still be in the top 20%.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2008
- Messages
- 5,926
- Location
- In Cider
Thats open to debate. Maybe in his prime. But I don't think so now.
Marquez
Pedrosa
Dovi
Lorenzo
Vinales
Zarco
Are all faster for sure. While you use the bad 2017 M1 as an excuse. Zarco has already gone faster on it in testing than Rossi (granted, it's early days) and Vinales won 3 races on it.
Marquez
Pedrosa
Dovi
Lorenzo
Vinales
Zarco
Are all faster for sure. While you use the bad 2017 M1 as an excuse. Zarco has already gone faster on it in testing than Rossi (granted, it's early days) and Vinales won 3 races on it.
Vinales did, but it could very well have been 2-2 if Le Mans turned out differently. They were both equally fast there. And towards the end of the year Rossi was mostly faster than Vinales.
Zarco did go faster on the 2017, but so did Vinales last year at the same time. The bike is too unpredictable to make something out of that yet. And that’s no slight of Zarco, he is awesome.
Zarco did go faster on the 2017, but so did Vinales last year at the same time. The bike is too unpredictable to make something out of that yet. And that’s no slight of Zarco, he is awesome.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2008
- Messages
- 5,926
- Location
- In Cider
Valid points. But I contend the Le Mans one. This gets my hackles up because every Rossi apologist uses it to try and even the score with Vinales. Fact is, Vinales won 3 races of Rossi's 1, including Le Mans where Rossi crashed trying to beat him.
IF Marquez' engine hadn't failed at Silverstone, he'd have wrapped the championship up in Sepang. But it did blow up so it went to a final round decider. What could have happened doesn't matter.
IF Marquez' engine hadn't failed at Silverstone, he'd have wrapped the championship up in Sepang. But it did blow up so it went to a final round decider. What could have happened doesn't matter.
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Messages
- 1,869
- Location
- Chertsey, Surrey, UK
Not according to Zarco it isn't, I expect its the .... on the 46 bike who is failing.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2016
- Messages
- 642
- Location
- Santa Cruz, Cal
Whoops. You should do some calculations before you make assumptions.
Rossi race two years on a Factory Ducati and finished 7th and 6th. He didn't win anything and had three lousy podiums in two years. Seemed like a 9th, 10th, or worse to me. There were less than twenty riders most of both seasons.
The year before, Casey Stoner had nine podiums on the Ducati and three wins. Now if you had said Stoner or Marquez would still be in the top 20%, I might agree with the hypothesis. Rossi nope. The facts say otherwise.
Rossi has been consistently better than both Pedrosa and Dovi throughout his career (even if we limit the comparison to when Dovi was on a factory bike).
After Galbusera entered the fray, Rossi finished ahead of Lorenzo in 2 out of the next 3 years. Let's not forget that Rossi has finished second in every world championship since Galbusera has been his crew chief other than 2017 (when he broke his leg).
Like him or not, Marquez, Lorenzo, Rossi, Vinales and Pedrosa are the leading riders in the world. Dovi has clearly entered that fray too.
Zarco had a strong rookie year, and I suspect he will permanently become a fixture among the top riders.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2008
- Messages
- 5,926
- Location
- In Cider
So in summary, you basically agree with my post that Marquez, Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Vinales are faster than Rossi. Two have won more titles than Rossi in the last 8 yrs, Pedrosa has won more races in that tie and in the time he has been on a top bike, Vinales has won more races. That puts them all above Rossi imo as of 2017. His performances this season alone puts Dovi above him too, though overall career wise Dovi is not comparable to Rossi.
You make a statement about 2017 as if it was the only reason he didn't finish second yet again. However, even Rossi himself has stated that it unlikely affected his championship position because had he ridden in a wet Misano, he most likely would have been at the tail end of the top 10 anyway. Maybe enough points to hold onto 4th but he was nowhere near the top two all season.
I disagree with some on here that his return to Yamaha was at the expense of better riders, particularly given his main competition for the ride at the time was reputedly Pol Espargaro.
As I think I have previously said to you, I and someone else you would regard as a Rossi "hater" in Povol actually warmed to him in 2014 when after seeming to be genuinely humbled by the Ducati adventure he said when Jorge and Dani were despairing at not having a look in for a title win with MM's dominance he was happy to be still racing and competitive towards the front of the field.
What is the point of what he is doing now exactly?.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2006
- Messages
- 138
- Location
- London, United Kingdom
Couldn't agree more. I find it so invigorating when at the start of the season a rider comes in with a hunger and desire to race and win and not be a journeyman that makes it to the top spot and then just circulates.
This is never more revealed than when a rider is prepared to stick it to Rossi and not be terrified of the persona or repurcussions of sleighting the 'big guy'.
Be specific with your question. Faster? In qualifying? Yes, although probably not Pedrosa.
Mate, you can't change your measuring stick depending on the rider you compare him to. In one sentence alone, you've switched from world championship counts in the last eight years against races won in the last eight years.
Similar threads
